First BIAB Experience

Post #1 made 14 years ago
I had my first BIAB session last night. It was good! There were many things done right, some things done wrong, and hopefully sometime in the future I'll have a beer that will be drinkable. Here's the intro synopsis:

Recipe: Lloydie P's Krispy Kolsch
Volume into fermenter: 20.79L (~5.5G)
Bag: Did not have one so went with the big square approach :)
Kettle: 48L aluminum, 40cm diameter
Fuel Source: 72,000 BTU propane burner

Because my schedule is so busy I did not have time to do many of the things I wanted to do before hand. This included - milling grain, measuring different water levels in my pot, trimming the voile square, testing the pulley, cleaning, sanitizing, etc. I figured much of this could be done during the mash and boils.. and part of that was true and part of it I should have known better :)

One thing I had done up front, and thank you to Stux and PP for helping me, was get my calculator working properly. That was a great help and learning experience. At the bottom of the calculator it told me based on my kettle how many cm of water I needed to add right from the start. Unfortunately for me I only had a ruler with inches on it and when I did the conversion to inches I choose the wrong value (I converted Liters to inches!). So when I stuck my ruler in my pot and was expecting to add something like 13.7" of water to a 14" high pot I knew something was amiss. Adding the grain would cause it to overflow. I wasn't sure how to proceed but I remembered a post on here a while back basically saying that calculators are great, but in the end you can always add more water or boil it off if you need to. So I just chose a spot on the pot that looked like it would give me enough head space with my grain and went with that. In hindsight (after I caught the error), the amount of water I added (36.9L) was actually very close to what I should have added (35.2L). Just 5% difference. So even though I was winging it I was not doing too bad.

I fired up the burner and as my 13.5C water increased towards my strike temp of 68C I milled the grains. I went past the strike temp to 71, but I figured that was ok because I would need time to get my bag set up. I just used bungee cords to secure it to the pot and did a little trimming with scissors. All good. At 68C I added the grain and then checked the temp. Down to 64C. A little flame and I was back at 66 (my mash temp). Covered the pot and wrapped some towels around it and for the next 20 minutes I ran around the house trying to organize things I would need later on. The process of checking temps and running around continued on for the rest of the mash. I was a little high most times.. 67 or 68 but given it was my first time I wasn't too concerned. After 90 mins I pulleyed the bag out of the pot and secured it in place. I was surprised how little it dripped. Thankfully I had purchased some industrial water proof gloves like The Commentary had told me to do. This allowed me to squeeze the bag in comfort and get out some more liquid. Then I tossed the bag in a pail and moved onto the boil. Wow that was easy. I thought AG was supposed to be difficult! My efficiency came out to 81%.

Flame on and it wasn't long before I hit 100C and then flame out to check measurements. I took a sample for a gravity reading and measured my volume (35.3L measured vs 33.7 theoretical). Then restarted the boil. Unfortunately at 30 minutes into the boil I literally kicked over my cooling gravity sample! I had not planned for this and decided to flame out and take a sample and then hope that maybe I could calculate my loss due to evaporation and somehow recover? I didn't know but pressed on anyway. The rest of the boil went well. A good rolling boil and no boilovers. At the end of the boil I had 30.54L vs the 25.32L I was supposed to have. I did not loose nearly as much to evaporation as I should have. I still don't know if that's normal or why there is such a large discrepency. I thought I read that evaporation rates are fairly predictable.

Too chill the beer I just hefted the very heavy pot into my laundry room and stuck it in the laundry tub with some circulating cold water on the outside. Half an hour later the pot wasn't warm and because it was getting quite late I decided to transfer the warm wort to the carboy and just do the aeration and pitching yeast steps the following day. 5.5 gallons went in the carboy and I covered it with saran wrap and called it a night. 12 hours later I took an OG reading, aerated, pitched the yeast and moved the carboy too my deep freeze on a timer. I'm hoping the timer will work as a make shift temp controller until the one I ordered from e-bay arrives.

Unfortunately My OG was lower than I would have liked. 1.040 vs 1.048. I think this is because I didn't loose as much water during evaporation as the calculator had projected so my concentration was lower?

All in all.. very happy with BIAB so far. Many many thanks too all who have put this amazing resource together!

Some questions:
1) How in the world are people checking their gravity when the wort is hot and making game time decisions on whether to add more water or boil off more water in order to hit their OG? Are they using a refractometer? It takes me at least half an hour for my wine theif sample to cool.. which obviously rules out any game time decisions.

2) Given that my efficiency was good, does the evaporation reasoning above make sense as to why my OG was low? What are the consequences of that lowered OG on the beer?

Thanks!
Last edited by Ralphus on 22 Jul 2011, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 14 years ago
Top work Ralphus and what a great read :)

Firstly, AG brewing is easy. Especially with BIAB. It's those complicated 3 vessel, fly sparged, march pumped, pid controlled set ups that are hard.

On your boil off, it is not so easily predicted. The first problem is the definition of a rolling boil. Because some things are left to interpretation it is near impossible to predict until you know your system and even then the weather will play a part.
The best thing to do is to brew a good 1/2 dozen batches and understand how everything works for you and your equipment.

Lower OG means you can drink more without getting drunk :) Shouldn't really affect the flavour of the beer.

Once you get a grip on your system of brewing, you will find you wont need to take as many measurements. Myself, I measure my starting water volume, temperatures, start of boil volume, end of boil volume and OG once the wort has cooled. That's it, I could drop off the Start and end of boil volumes, but like to know what they are.

Well done on your brew, onwards and upwards.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 14 years ago
I like to measure the SOB Volume and the Gravity at that stage so I can correct my Hop Bill for under/over utilizing, but other than that, if you get over utilization you can always dilute in the fermenter to hit your OG
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 14 years ago
sigurdur wrote:1. Either a refractometer or quickly cooling their samples. I have used both (I am experimenting with a refractometer now). To cool your wort quickly, use a clean thin-walled metal container (I used a coffee-pad container) and put your hot wort in that, then go to the sink and let some cool water run on the container while you whirl the sample down. This brings your sample to ~20°C in a minute or so.
+1 To take this a step farther, I'll keep a big bowl of ice water handy during the boil. I have a small (probably 1/2 liter) stainless steel bowl that we had in the kitchen that I'll pour the hot wort into and place in the bowl of ice water. I know that 1/2 cup of wort will fill my hydrometer jar so that's how much I chill down. This way I can easily check my gravity several times during the boil in order to get my desired FG by adjusting boil vigor and/or time and/or adding water or DME.

Just a tip if you do it this way...If you want to check the gravity at, say, 60min and you have a 60min hop addition, pull your sample of wort before adding the hops. Makes for a cleaner and probably more accurate gravity measurement.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 12 Jul 2011, 01:19, edited 5 times in total.

Post #5 made 14 years ago
sigurdur wrote:
Ralphus wrote:I had my first BIAB session last night. It was good! There were many things done right, some things done wrong, and hopefully sometime in the future I'll have a beer that will be drinkable.
Well done and congrats!! :clap:
Ralphus wrote:Some questions:
1) How in the world are people checking their gravity when the wort is hot and making game time decisions on whether to add more water or boil off more water in order to hit their OG? Are they using a refractometer? It takes me at least half an hour for my wine theif sample to cool.. which obviously rules out any game time decisions.

2) Given that my efficiency was good, does the evaporation reasoning above make sense as to why my OG was low? What are the consequences of that lowered OG on the beer?

Thanks!
1. Either a refractometer or quickly cooling their samples. I have used both (I am experimenting with a refractometer now). To cool your wort quickly, use a clean thin-walled metal container (I used a coffee-pad container) and put your hot wort in that, then go to the sink and let some cool water run on the container while you whirl the sample down. This brings your sample to ~20°C in a minute or so.

2. Yes, and more beer of less strength (which is good) :)

Congrats again..! :)
There are online calculators to correct a gravity reading for temperature. They're more accurate the cooler the sample, so for example, you can measure 1.025 at 50C and the calculator might tell you that its 1.035 at 20C

My Maxi-BIAB Calculator will automatically calculate the on the fly adjustments based on volume/gravity readings at each stage

I find it virtually impossible to work out otherwise :)
Last edited by stux on 12 Jul 2011, 10:48, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #6 made 14 years ago
Thanks all for your positive feedback. I am dieing to brew again!

The beer is fermenting away at a cozy 15C. It's a good thing I started with a blow off tube as the Wyeast German Ale yeast has been very active and has pushed quite bit of gunk through it already.

Given that I'm going to be bottling the beer (sigh).. what do you guys think my best bet is for clarifying it? Should I transfer it to a secondary and cold crash it for a few days before I bottle.. or keep it in the primary but add some finings into the bottling bucket come bottling day, or something else?

Post #7 made 14 years ago
Your beer will generally clear on its own, some people fine as a matter of course.Others never do.Did you use any Whirfloc or Irish Moss? If you did,then it is not likely you will neeed any finings.
Haze is only a visual thing anyway,it won't affect the taste of your beer.If it does come out a little hazy but tastes good(as it usually does)just close your eyes and enjoy.
AWOL

Post #8 made 14 years ago
My bad.I forgot that most pallettes are way more structured than mine!
I don't have a clue,when you guys talk about having grapefruits,bananas,and DMSomething or others in your beer.My beer tasting range is as follows.
1:great
2:real good
3:give it time
4:blech "who put the Coors in the fridge!"
AWOL

Post #9 made 14 years ago
hashie wrote:Top work Ralphus and what a great read :)
I'll say! :thumbs: and :P

Good on you Lylo.

On the pre-boil volume gravity reading, its purpose is to help you gather your figures not make adjustments so take a sample in a coffee mug, cover it in wrap and let it cool for as long as you like. (I usually put mine in the freezer to speed things up a bit though). I don't ever use a pre-boil volume gravity check to change anything in my recipe as I know that a single reading in a brew is not reliable enough. (Next time you do a brew invite 5 brewers around and ask them to all write down what figure they see in the hydrometer and/or hydrometer. It's an interesting exercise! Also, try reading your refractometer sample at 1 minute, 5 minute 10 etc.)

On your scoring a large volume of wort into the fermenter at a lower gravity, you are probably right on this. Your 'mash efficiency' measuremnt of 81% indicates this is the likely cause rather than say incorrect weighitng of grain. (Another reaon for doing the pre-boil check - it can help confirm suspicions like this.) If your pot is small in diamter, I would lower your evaporation rate for your next brews as the formula used in The Calculator is only based on a small sample. It looks though that for smaller diameter pots, the evaporation 'guess' is too high and for really large diameter pots it is too low. Do not keep changing it though after this. Just ride out the five brews and then make your changes.

Gotta race but loved your post!
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jul 2011, 10:08, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
Just a quick update on this brew. I need my primary fermentation vessell (which currently holds the Kolsch) for my second BIAB session on Saturday, so yesterday I transferred the Kolsch to a secondary, took a gravity reading and then drank the sample. OG is around 1.010.. and the beer is tasting great already.

We have a local brewery named Beau's (www.beaus.ca) and their flagship beer, which is very popular, is a Kolsch style beer named Lugtread. The hydrometer sample I tasted yesterday tasted very close to that beer, just flat. I actually considered getting another sample just to drink! :yum:

I'll let it sit for another week or so in the secondary and see how it clears and then consider bottling it sometime after that.

Cheers,

Ralph

Post #11 made 14 years ago
The beer has been bottled, sat for a week and so far it it is tasting...
..
..
..
..
..
excellent!!

Its a very nice summer ale with lager like qualities. Its fresh with a great grain taste, lightly sweet and very drinkable. Bitterness is good. The smell is still changing (yesterday it was a bit like green apple.. today a bit of DMS) but given the beer is quite young I'm not worried. I can see why the authors of the site say it's a crowd pleaser.

If you have the ability to control your temps I would definitely recommend Lloydie P's Krispy Kolsch!

Thanks to all!

P.S Since this first brew I have done two others, an IPA and a pale ale. My evap rates are still hard to nail down but I'm getting a better routine going and efficiency is still good (75 & 81%). BIAB rocks!

Post #12 made 14 years ago
Ralphus,
Keep up the good work! Your brewing skills are skyrocketing! Your evap rates will rarely be perfect unless your humidity is always the same. My humidity changes each day in the summer. One day everything is sopping wet and the next it is crisp and clear. Winter is the only time it is stable. Great for lagers! As summer is winding down here I am actually looking forward to brewing lagers.
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