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Advice on a botched brew

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by naib
Hi everyone,

I recently tried the Brooklyn Brew Shop Tea and Toast recipe from their 52 Seasonal Brews book. It's my third time brewing. Unfortunately, my thermometer was off by 20 degF so I spent most of my mash above 170 degF. My target gravity of ambient wort was 1.070. I hit 1.030. It was late and I wasn't thinking so I just put it in the fermenter and pitched and decided I would figure out what went wrong afterwards. I got a vigorous fermentation for about 48 hours and it's quieted down now.

Now, I realize this beer is probably screwed. I expect it could be more bitter than planned and more hoppy? My question here is, is there anything I can do post-primary fermentation to add a little sugar? I don't have any DME, but could I add anything like honey (after boiling it I guess) or corn sugar, or some unfermentable sugar, to salvage the taste? Should I just let it ride and see what it's like?

What are your thoughts on abandoning, rescuing, or experimenting with this beer?

My BIABacus report is below:

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3T RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Tea and Toast - Batch 1[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Chris K
Style: Ale
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 7% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.07
IBU's (Tinseth):
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio:
Colour:

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 81.7 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 70 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 67 C = 152.6 F
Boil: 60 min
Ferment: 21 days at 21 C = 69.8 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 9.21 L = 2.43 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 8.35 L = 2.21 G @ 1.041
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 4.67 L = 1.23 G @ 1.07
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 4 L = 1.06 G @ 1.07
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 3.7 L = 0.98 G @ 1.018 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

50% Belgian Pilsner 676 grams = 1.49 pounds
10% Melanoidin 135 grams = 0.3 pounds
6.7% Caramel 10 90 grams = 0.2 pounds
3.3% Munich 45 grams = 0.1 pounds
26.7% Smoked Malt 361 grams = 0.8 pounds
3.3% Flaked wheat 45 grams = 0.1 pounds

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

Fuggles - 3g 4.5% 60 min
Saaz - 3g 2.5% 30 min
Saaz - 3g 2.5% 15 min


Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 67 C = 152.6 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 9.39 L = 2.48 G 67.7 C = 153.8 F


Miscellaneous Ingredients

#VALUE!


Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: N

Chilling Method: Sink

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Belgian Ale for 21 days at 21 C = 69.8 F

Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: N
Filtered: N

Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 14 days.
Consume within 6 months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
Last edited by naib on 24 Mar 2016, 00:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #2 made 9 years ago
by joshua
Chris(Naib), you used "50% Belgian Pilsner 676 grams = 1.49 pounds".

That grain would Not be able to Convert Much of the Starch of the other 50% of the grains.

The "Diastatic Power" of the Pilsner would be about 140. This means the grain can convert 140% of the Grains Weight, or 100% of itself, and 40% more by Weight.

Most grains need 80% to 90% Diastatic Power to be converted, so the Pilsner could have converted about 0.59 pounds of the remaining Grain Bill, but may have only converted 0.40.

It is best to check the DP of the grains used, when building a Grain Bill

see....
http://www.eckraus.com/blog/what-is-dia ... tion-chart
and
http://www.picobrewery.com/askarchive/diastatic.htm

Good Luck!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #3 made 9 years ago
by goulaigan
Joshua, the diastatic power of most smoked smoked malt I can find is around the same as pilsner, so I don't think that would be a problem here. I do think mashing that high IS a problem tho.

naib, at that mash temp the enzymes needed to convert starch to sugar break down and stop working, which is one of the reasons we do a mashout at that temp. I'm not really too sure where that leaves your beer, it looks like you managed to get some extraction, but not sure what the outcome would be. I probably wouldn't suggest adding anything else at this point, but maybe someone who has experience with this can chime in with a suggestion?

what was the FG?
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Re:

Post #4 made 9 years ago
by naib
goulaigan wrote:Joshua, the diastatic power of most smoked smoked malt I can find is around the same as pilsner, so I don't think that would be a problem here. I do think mashing that high IS a problem tho.

naib, at that mash temp the enzymes needed to convert starch to sugar break down and stop working, which is one of the reasons we do a mashout at that temp. I'm not really too sure where that leaves your beer, it looks like you managed to get some extraction, but not sure what the outcome would be. I probably wouldn't suggest adding anything else at this point, but maybe someone who has experience with this can chime in with a suggestion?

what was the FG?
Yeah, my impression was that the only grain in the bill not contributing to the enzyme production was the wheat. The final gravity was 1.030. BIABacus tells me I'll be looking at 3.2% ABV which I could live with - I'm just not sure how it'll taste.

I have two meat thermometers around the kitchen I've been using for brewing. I guess my first two brews I got lucky and grabbed the less wrong one. I was trying to hold a mash temp of 153 but my guess is that I was closer to 173, which would have been my mashout temp.

I'm throwing them both out once my thermapen arrives in the mail. : )
Last edited by naib on 24 Mar 2016, 04:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 9 years ago
by goulaigan
I thought your OG was 1.03, I was wondering what the FG was but perhaps it is still fermenting. My concern was that anything that did convert may be sugars that are not very fermentable, since a hotter mash generally produces these. I would let it ferment out and see.
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Advice on a botched brew

Post #7 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Niab. Do yourself a favor and get multiple thermometers. Thermoworks make quality thermometers but it is unwise to rely solely on one. I had a terrible brewday once where 2 of my digital thermometers died. I have since over compensated and I think I have 5 digital( including 2 thermoworks) an ir and 2 bimetal thermometers. :o
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

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Post #8 made 9 years ago
by mally
Have a read through this post naib.

Maybe some things there to check (including that dodgy thermometer)?
Last edited by mally on 24 Mar 2016, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #9 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
naib wrote:My question here is, is there anything I can do post-primary fermentation to add a little sugar?
I remember reading your original post naib and having no positive answer so conveniently slunk away :sneak: :). Now, at the end of this post, I have a question for you.

Firstly, I also don't see any worries with the diastatic power but it's pretty cool Josh mentioned it as my brain would not even have explored that, and, sometimes, thinking outside the square does find the problem.

Secondly, the other guys have nailed it; as an all-grain brewer, you really have to make sure you have a set of reliable thermometers, not just one. It's a bit like you can ferment a Kolsch at 15°C (59°F) and get a pretty much dry kolsch or ferment it at 17.5°C (63.5°F), with the same yeast, and get a fruity Kolsch.

In your scenario, regardless, I wouldn't think you would add more sugar for a correction. Assuming pure sugar, that would just make it more alcoholic, it would not convert your unconverted sugars. The only way I can see to correct it would be a massive blending with another batch.

Moving on, you say the beer is 'probably screwed.' I don't think that is right. Sure, I doubt it will be the beer you intended to brew, but, if you taste it, without those pre-conceptions, you and/or others might well love it. There will be something to learn or like about this beer, for sure, and, I for one, will look forward to you letting us know what it does taste like.

Please do that :peace:,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 27 Mar 2016, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Advice on a botched brew

Post #10 made 9 years ago
by Contrarian
If the OG was 40 points below target it is possible that adding some DME could help balance out some of the flavours but the best thing to Sonia wait until it has fermented out and taste it. If it tastes good then drink it!

If it finishes higher than you expected and is too sweet for your taste one left field option would be to add some brettanomyces which will eat some of the more complex sugars left over. It might take a few months but will certainly add an interesting flavour.

See what you've ended up with and report back before tipping!

Post #11 made 9 years ago
by naib
Hi everyone, thanks so much for the advice. I stuck with it and bottled last night. FG was 1.008 and the taste was actually pretty good! I'm really thankful you all convinced me to keep it and I learned a ton for my next batch.
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Post #12 made 9 years ago
by goulaigan
That's awesome. If it was drinkable at bottling it can only improve with conditioning :) And now the rest of us know what happens when you mash a beer at mashout temps, so thanks for that. Let us know how it tastes in a week or two!
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