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Wadworth 6X Clone

Post #2076 made 10 years ago
by cfmcintosh
Yes! ;) http://www.britishbrewer.com/tag/wadworth-6x-clone/

Also read "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" by Dave Line (1982, Great Brtain). He uses Flaked Maize and Invert Sugar as aduncts. The measurements are in British and Metric in his book. The BIABacus makes it easy since I don't have to convert to US! 5 British Gallons is about 6 US Gallons so have to scale down. My appreciation of BIABacus just went way up as I realized it scales down for me!

Is there a difference between the Blank and American Pale Ale versions of the .xls file?

Thanks!
Last edited by cfmcintosh on 28 Feb 2015, 05:18, edited 2 times in total.

Post #2077 made 10 years ago
by tomme93
Hi,

I have found a recipe on Kronenbourg, 1664 Blanc "clone" or what to call it here that i was going to try.
But i have some trouble with the BIABacus, so thought i ask here for some advice. Some ingredients were written in Norwegian so i translated these from the original post.

The size of the kettle is 32x32cm and my plan is to get a VIF of 10L (original recipe is 75L).

But have some questions.
First is about the IBU that doesn't get to 21,8 accordning to the calculator, am i missing something here?
Then i wonder what the EBC is under the fermentable? Seen alot of people filling these out?
Is it correct to have the dextrose sugar in the feremtable? It says something to go to section Y, but what values should i use in that table?
Then the last thing (i think), is about section F. I tried to add the other stuff like the Protafloc, Orange and so on to this section but the calculation looks strange (100 becomes 642)? Looks like it scale things up.

So bear with me, i have only done some extract brewing before but really like the BIAB technique and the calculator. Great job on that!

Kronenbourg, 1664 Blanc
Witbier

Recipe Specs
Original Gravity Final Gravity
Colour (SRM / EBC)

Bitterness Alcohol by Volume
1.057 1.013 3.2 / 6.3 21.8 IBU 5.7%

Brewhouse Specs
Recipe Type Batch Size Boil Time Efficiency
All Grain 75.0 Litres / 19.8 Gal 90.0 min 83.0%

Fermentables
Name Type SRM Percentage Amount
Pilsner Grain 1.7 50.00 % 8.00 Kg / 17.64 Lbs
Wheat Malt Grain 2.0 37.50 % 6.00 Kg / 13.23 Lbs
Dextrose Sugar 0.0 6.25 % 1.00 Kg / 2.20 Lbs
Torrified Wheat Grain 2.0 6.25 % 1.00 Kg / 2.20 Lbs

Hops
Name AA% Amount Use Time
Strisselspalt 2.0% 200.00 g / 7.05 oz First Wort 90 mins
Strisselspalt 2.0% 100.00 g / 3.53 oz Boil 15 mins
Amarillo 8.6% 30.00 g / 1.06 oz Boil 1 mins
Mosaic 12.3% 30.00 g / 1.06 oz Boil 1 mins
Amarillo 8.6% 30.00 g / 1.06 oz Dry Hop 0 mins
Mosaic 12.3% 30.00 g / 1.06 oz Dry Hop 0 mins

Misc
Name Amount Use Time
Orange Peel/Zest 100.00 g / 3.53 oz Boil 15 mins
Coriander Seed 10.00 g / 0.35 oz Boil 15 mins
Protafloc 5.00 g / 0.18 oz Boil 15 mins
Apricot/Puree 1000.00 g / 35.27 oz Secondary 0 mins

Yeast
Name Attenuation
Wyeast 1010 - American Wheat 75 % (I´ll use American Hefe Ale WLP320 instead)

Mash Steps
Step Name Time Temperature Type
Saccharification Rest 90.0 min 65.0 °C / 149.0 °F Infusion


I really appreciate any help you can provide.
//Tommy
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Last edited by tomme93 on 27 Feb 2015, 23:05, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2078 made 10 years ago
by sh3rlock
Mad_Scientist wrote:sh3rlock, I find that you only need 3745 grams of grain bill to make your 20.82L VIF.

With a smaller kettle, you will need to withhold 8L of water initially from the mash. You'll add 2.5L B4 the boil and add 5.5L into the fermenter.

I can provide additional info/help, if needed.

MS
Thank you for you help Mad_Scientist.

I played around with BIABacus after work this morning and used your volume withheld numbers and have attached my BIABacus file. My numbers don't come out exactly what yours did, so if you have a few minutes could you look at it and see what I did differently / wrong? I am new to this whole process and while I feel a lot more comfortable just looking at your previous comment about withholding volumes, the nerd in me wants to know what is different and what I can do better in the future.

PS. I hope to be brewing later this afternoon - so wish me luck!

Thanks for your time and patience!
-sh3rlock
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Last edited by sh3rlock on 28 Feb 2015, 00:06, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2080 made 10 years ago
by mally
cfmcintosh - I have filled out a BIABacus for you based on a Wadworth 6X recipe.
I am not sure if there would be copyright problems (unless you have already got the book) but it is from a well known English Author and is linked to CAMRA. ;)

I think it is very similar to what you already have, and I have used some of your info to fill it out as well.
Give it a look over and change anything that you see fit, or run with your original one?

:luck:
BIABacus PR1.3T - Wadworth XXXXXX (cfmcintosh) .xls
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Last edited by mally on 01 Mar 2015, 18:36, edited 6 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #2081 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Looks like we have three questions being answered at the same time here. I will take on tomme93. Maybe atm, we should start our posts with a big...

tomme93

Lots going on in this thread atm tomme so it's probably easiest if just one of us looks after your question. I'll keep an eye out for your responses. Just working through your post question by question...

1. Regarding IBU discrepancies, read this and see if that answers anything. If not, this post might help. If either of those don't help. let me know and we'll get into it more.

2. EBC is basically a value on how much colour a malt will contribute to your brew. Don't worry about that for now.

3. Dextrose would be much better in Section Y as it is a lot stronger, sugar-wise, than a grain/malt. I'll deal with that in your file.

4. Section F error: That's definitely an error on our part there Tommy. I thought that section was working fine so have no idea what is making it play up. I'll look into that tomorrow. Thanks for bringing that to our attention :salute:.

One Major Problem in the Original Recipe

The only volume info we are given is a "batch size" of 75 litres. The links I gave above will have probably dealt with this problem. On a quick glance of the recipe, I am making an educated guess that the VAW of the original recipe is 75 L but, in most cases of recipes you find on the net etc, this would be an incorrect assumption.

Your File

Excellent job on your file :clap:.

In Section Y, type 100 and 4 beside 'Dextrose Sugar'.

For Section F, we basically need to multiply the original ingredients by 11.67/75. In other words, your VAW/Orignial VAW. Therefore,

100 grams becomes 15.5 grams.
10 grams becomes 1.6 grams
Protafloc becomes .8 grams (use 1/4 of whirfloc tablet instead)
1000 grams becomes 155 grams

Let me know if the above makes sense and I'll check out that Section F error.

Good job,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 Mar 2015, 20:13, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2082 made 10 years ago
by cfmcintosh
mally wrote:cfmcintosh - I have filled out a BIABacus for you based on a Wadworth 6X recipe.
I am not sure if there would be copyright problems (unless you have already got the book) but it is from a well known English Author and is linked to CAMRA. ;)

I think it is very similar to what you already have, and I have used some of your info to fill it out as well.
Give it a look over and change anything that you see fit, or run with your original one?

:luck:
BIABacus PR1.3T - Wadworth XXXXXX (cfmcintosh) .xls
Thanks!
Last edited by cfmcintosh on 03 Mar 2015, 12:17, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2083 made 10 years ago
by f00b4r
I would appreciate it if you could take a look at my spreadsheet for this recipe, it is for a premium bitter that has got pretty good feedback and came second in a home brew competition, leading the judge to actually do a one off commercial brew.
The link to the original recipe is here; it was interesting to see my question around the "brew length" led to everyone assuming incorrectly what was being referenced, luckily the creator of the recipe was more than happy to help clarify what was meant.

I actually have another 4-5 recipes to be checked (been doing enough reading and now is the time to learn by doing) but thought i would check I am doing one right first (also some are from Graham Wheeler's fantastic book, so should really just be a quick sanity check).

I have made adjustments for evaporations and strike temperature (based upon recommendations here) as well as holding a small amount of water back prior to the boil (this is because until I do my dry run I am not sure how comfortable I am actually filling to higher than where the handles are attached).
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Last edited by f00b4r on 17 Mar 2015, 20:55, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2084 made 10 years ago
by mally
7 downloads & no comments?

People must want the recipe for themselves then! :lol:

I gave it a quick scan F00b4r and couldn't find any problems.
Well done sorting everything out with BarnsleyBrewer as well. :thumbs:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #2086 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Foobar, and Mally,

The only Comment I could make is in section 'w', Water added before Boil, could be changed to Water add during the Boil.

This would change the GIB, along with the Mash Volume/VIB. a really minor difference causing the Mash Volume to be less, and VIB to be less. Of Course the 3L gets added to the After the boil......Just an error in thinking where the extra water is Added.

Sorry PP........
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #2087 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
fOOb4r, I am going to work backwards here to you...

Joshua: No probs Josh. Water added before the boil is preferable to adding it during the boil. Of course, if you added it all two seconds after the boil began, there would be no diff in quality to adding it two seconds before the boil. The same goes (not quite) for adding it two seconds before flame-out or adding the same dilution to the fermentor. The basic rule is that the earlier any dilutions are needed, the higher the quality of wort.

....

mally: There are a hundred times more readers than questioners here. For every questioner, there are very few 'answerers' like yourself (I know that is not a word but.) As you know, on this forum, writing quality answers takes a lot of time and, atm, a few of our regular 'answerers' are not available atm. These times are good for new members who want to step up to the plate of responding. If they get something wrong, you, myself, Josh will correct them as we do for each other.

The fOOb4r File :)

I won't comment on the malt and hop mix/blend as I am not skilled in that area let alone on British Ales sorry. So, the below is all about seeing how well we can duplicate whatever the original brewer did to suit your set-up. I'm assuming you typed in the original ingredients correctly on the left hand side of Sections C and D.

Your BIABacus looks really good :clap: so I only have a couple of worries...

You have over-ridden the auto-estimate for evaporation. It is always dangerous to lower the estimate as it is more likely to put you in a position, at the end of the boil, of having a weak wort rather than a strong one. The latter is easy to deal with whereas the former is not. Also, evaporation will vary wildly from brew to brew especially if you brew outdoors.

I would probably hold back more water, at least on your first batch, for reasons you already mentioned above especially because your kettle is tall and narrow rather than fat and wide. When you pull your bag out, your kettle will act more like a syringe. This is a factor I am aware of and would like to adjust the BIABacus warnings to account for but that will have to wait for another day. Do you understand what I am saying though?... It is much easier to pull a bag from a wide kettle than a narrow one.

....

I can see where you got your VAW to tuype into Section D from from but be aware that this is just a guess (and an excellent/practical guess) as, from what I read, the only info you received from the original brewer was the VIF. In other words, you are assuming that he/she will have the same KFL as you but this is rarely the case.

...

One big worry is that on the other site, your last post, at time of writing, has ingredient weights but only mentions 23 L into fermentor and does not define the 'efficiency'. To make that post as accurate as is possible, you would have to edit it so that it read something like...
The following weights assume a kettle efficiency of 85% (can be measured at any time during the boil), 23 L of wort into the fermentor and a kettle to fermentor loss of 3.83 L. In other words, the Volume of Ambient Wort (volume at flame-out less shrinkage) was 26.8 L.
This is the bare minimum of info we need on the recipe. The next bit of critical info is what sort of chilling method was used but on this recipe, that will not be so critical.

Does all that make sense?

:peace:
PP

P.S. And watch that bloody Nottingham at 18C. It is explosive!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Mar 2015, 20:43, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2088 made 10 years ago
by tomme93
PistolPatch wrote:
Let me know if the above makes sense and I'll check out that Section F error.

Good job,
PP
Hi PistolPatch,

Sorry for the late reply. Been kinda hectic at work so i had to put aside the brewing for a couple of weeks.. But i did brew an ale last week (thought i try that before i go all in on the coriander seeds and so on).. Went well, only thing was that the evaporation rate value was wrong. But a "boil test" and modify it in section X should solve that hopefully.

Anyway, big thanks for the explanation. Think i got most of it. One question though. You said "In Section Y, type 100 and 4 beside 'Dextrose Sugar'".
What does the value 4 (MC) mean/do in that section?

Again, big thanks!

BR
Tommy
Last edited by tomme93 on 27 Mar 2015, 00:07, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2089 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
tomme93 wrote:
PistolPatch wrote:
Let me know if the above makes sense and I'll check out that Section F error.

Good job,
PP
Hi PistolPatch,

Sorry for the late reply. Been kinda hectic at work so i had to put aside the brewing for a couple of weeks.. But i did brew an ale last week (thought i try that before i go all in on the coriander seeds and so on).. Went well, only thing was that the evaporation rate value was wrong. But a "boil test" and modify it in section X should solve that hopefully.

Anyway, big thanks for the explanation. Think i got most of it. One question though. You said "In Section Y, type 100 and 4 beside 'Dextrose Sugar'".
What does the value 4 (MC) mean/do in that section?

Again, big thanks!

BR
Tommy
Yes, thanks right. Also put in a "B" beside Dextrose Sugar in Section C.

MS
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 27 Mar 2015, 01:10, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2090 made 10 years ago
by mally
Tommy - MC means moisture content.
The 4 means approximately 4% of the weight of the sugar is water.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #2091 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
And, don't play around with the auto-estimates on the BIABacus until you have done a few brews. Search my posts for the earliest one you can find that mentions 'Number Respect and Disrespect'. Evaporation, even if you did manage to measure it accurately on this brew, will vary considerably from brew day to brew day especially if you brew outdoors.

Good job on getting that first one under your belt :clap: :salute: :champ:.
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Post #2092 made 10 years ago
by f00b4r
PistolPatch wrote:fOOb4r,The fOOb4r File :)

You have over-ridden the auto-estimate for evaporation. It is always dangerous to lower the estimate as it is more likely to put you in a position, at the end of the boil, of having a weak wort rather than a strong one. The latter is easy to deal with whereas the former is not. Also, evaporation will vary wildly from brew to brew especially if you brew outdoors.

I would probably hold back more water, at least on your first batch, for reasons you already mentioned above especially because your kettle is tall and narrow rather than fat and wide. When you pull your bag out, your kettle will act more like a syringe. This is a factor I am aware of and would like to adjust the BIABacus warnings to account for but that will have to wait for another day. Do you understand what I am saying though?... It is much easier to pull a bag from a wide kettle than a narrow one.

....

I can see where you got your VAW to type into Section D from from but be aware that this is just a guess (and an excellent/practical guess) as, from what I read, the only info you received from the original brewer was the VIF. In other words, you are assuming that he/she will have the same KFL as you but this is rarely the case.

...

One big worry is that on the other site, your last post, at time of writing, has ingredient weights but only mentions 23 L into fermentor and does not define the 'efficiency'. To make that post as accurate as is possible, you would have to edit it so that it read something like...
The following weights assume a kettle efficiency of 85% (can be measured at any time during the boil), 23 L of wort into the fermentor and a kettle to fermentor loss of 3.83 L. In other words, the Volume of Ambient Wort (volume at flame-out less shrinkage) was 26.8 L.
This is the bare minimum of info we need on the recipe. The next bit of critical info is what sort of chilling method was used but on this recipe, that will not be so critical.

Does all that make sense?

:peace:
PP

P.S. And watch that bloody Nottingham at 18C. It is explosive!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the response, hopefully the below shows it has seeped in. :D

I am brewing in a garage, so may get more consistent-ish evaporation rates, but take on board not reducing the evaporation rate for now, especially as I would rather be in the position of having extra gravity points to deal with (I did wonder if it was worth making this more likely on the first couple of brews by e.g. reducing the auto efficiency but decided to hold off playing about and concentrate on the process, going back to the default evaporation values seems a good move for now).

In terms of the pulling of the bag are you talking about a suction type of effect making it difficult? I have setup a ratchet pulley system so hopefully this should allow me, if need be, to do slowly and bit by bit offsetting this effect slightly (knowing I can let go without the bag falling back to the bottom).

In terms of the VAW I did base it on BIABacus calculations but this did agree with what I discussed with the recipe author (I did not actually print this as it was just estimated by him based upon previous brews).

I will update the other site with your suggested clarifications.

I can live with explosive yeast, especially if it welds to the bottom of the bottle :D
Last edited by f00b4r on 29 Mar 2015, 08:01, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2093 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
f00br4, we need to change your handle. I can't work out if it is letters or numbers :scratch: :P . And next time, begin your post with, "Forgive me posters, it has been 11 days since my last addition." I thought you were dead!!! :). Anyway...

If you have a ratchet set up then that should be fine. This will allow the sweet liquor to fall from the grist slowly. Imagine pulling a wide sponge out of a narrow bucket of water quickly versus slowly. One way will cause spillage and the other won't.

As for the VAW, I am still a bit suspicious about that as the other brewer, unless they were BIAB'ing and using the BIABacus, shouldn't have had the same VAW. If they did, it is an amazing coincidence!

Don't be a stranger (take too long) in your reply* otherwise I have to look up your profile and re-read your posts to get myself back up to speed on your question.

;)
PP

*In saying the above, f00br4 has been helping me with some other stuff so his slow reply is forgiven. I just don't want him setting a bad example to any others :lol:
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Post #2094 made 10 years ago
by Viper5110
Hi All. IM From Birmingham (UK) So for my 6th Brew im going to try a mini BIAB. Ive been reading this site for a while now and tackling the biabacus and its already been useful in working out grain bill etc so thanks!


Please see report below for my progress so far
Some questions…..
I plan to prime directly into each bottle so it will not be diluted, can I change BIABacus to reflect this?
I want a liquor:grain ratio of 3:1 (I’ve read that’s ok for BIAB??) So I’ve played around the full volume variations to achieve this adding an extra 9 litres after lifting grain/before boil. Also 1L for a quick sparge and 2L during boil. All the above due to limitations in kettle size and I want at least 11L into packaging.

Also DECREASE WATER INTO SPARGE has shown up in red, should I be worried?

The recipe calls for a little white sugar. Where should I write this. If I don’t add EBC I get no final colour number
Ill be using half a teaspoon of Irish Moss but can’t see anywhere to add this

Finally (I know) It is coming up as a full volume mash which I don't think it is?

Any help suggestions would be well received. I know this is my first post but I'll be going for this on Saturday so would appreciate any help

Thanks, Mark






Recipe Overview

Brewer: Mark Liptrot
Style: English ale
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 4% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.038
IBU's (Tinseth): 36.9
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.97
Colour:

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 66.7 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 60.1 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 21 C = 69.8 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 19.93 L = 5.27 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 16.31 L = 4.31 G @ 1.032
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 13.32 L = 3.52 G @ 1.038
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 12 L = 3.17 G @ 1.038
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 11.11 L = 2.94 G @ 1.007 assuming apparent attenuation of 81 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

80% Maris Otter (5 EBC = 2.5 SRM) 2051 grams = 4.52 pounds
10% Torrefied Wheat (4 EBC = 2 SRM) 256 grams = 0.56 pounds
9% White sugar 230 grams = 0.51 pounds
1% Roasted barley (1220 EBC = 619.3 SRM) 26 grams = 0.06 pounds





The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

34 IBU Challenger Flowers (8.58%AA) 19.2 grams = 0.677 ounces at 90 mins
2.9 IBU EK Goldings Flowers (6.57%AA) 6.4 grams = 0.226 ounces at 10 mins







Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Water Held Back from Mash: 12 L = 3.17 G
Strike Water Needed (SWN): 8.09 L = 2.14 G 70.4 C = 158.7 F



Water Used in a Sparge: 1 L = 0.26 G

Water Added After Final Lauter: 9 L = 2.38 G
Water Added During Boil: 2 L = 0.53 G


Miscellaneous Ingredients








Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: y

Chilling Method: immersion chiller (Employed 0 mins after boil end.)

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Safale S04 for 14 days at 21 C = 69.8 F

Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: N
Filtered: N





Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer



BIAB Variations

Water Held Back from Mash: 12 L = 3.17 G
Water Used in a Sparge: 1 L = 0.26 G
Water Added After Final Lauter: 9 L = 2.38 G
Water Added During Boil: 2 L = 0.53 G
Last edited by Viper5110 on 10 Apr 2015, 04:40, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2095 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Viper, Welcome to the Forum!!!

Could you post the .XLS file, so we can see the Kettle Size, Gravities, and the Water hold-back?
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Post #2097 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Viper,

I have not used 3:1 mash since I left 3V brewing, Efficiency is better with 6-7:1 mash ratio, and even better with a 90 minute mash.
Image
If you want to try Full Volume Brewing, you can change Section W from Sparge 1 to 0, Water added before boil from 9 to 0, and lastly Water added during the Boil from 2 to 4, and have 7.65 grain:water, and a full volume Mash and 3.4 gallon head-space during the Boil.

JMHO, YMMV
Last edited by joshua on 10 Apr 2015, 05:40, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2099 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Viper,

To answer your sugar question, You can enter "B" to the right of White sugar in Section C and "1" as the EBC (close enough), then in Section Y enter 100% for FGDB and 0% for MC to get 46.2 ppg.


Also, as an alternative to what Joshua mentioned above, instead, in Section W, clear all fields and then enter 3 L into 'water added to fermentor'.

MS
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Post #2100 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Mad_Scientist wrote:Viper,

Also, as an alternative to what Joshua mentioned above, instead, in Section W, clear all fields and then enter 3 L into 'water added to fermentor'.
Sorry --- meant to say, "you can ALSO enter ~ 3L into the 'water added before the boil'...
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 10 Apr 2015, 06:03, edited 6 times in total.
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