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My Planned Brew - Comments Wecome

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
Edit: 21/02/2015; brew done everything went well. Thanks to all who commented on my post

Hello fellow brewers, I was hoping you could have a look at the recipe I'm planing for my BIAB brew day this weekend. I've done 2 BIABs before a few years ago. Since then I've been brewing by traditional 3 vessel means. The BIABs were my first all grain batches with 60min mash and boils. Looking back on my Beersmith recipes for these BIABs I could see my brewhouse efficiency was 68.5% so I scaled this recipe to that and bought the ingredients last week.

This week i discovered BIABrewer and BIABacus so I've decided to put my trusty Beersmith software aside and brew with BIABacus, as I'm quite impressed with the spreadsheet, and I'm interested see what readings I'll get compared to BIABacus.

So I've entered my grain bill in and the hops I was going to use and noticed with the default auto kettle efficiency it looks like a may overshoot my planned OG. Which is no probs.

Is the kettle efficiency based on averages of 90min mashes? Do you find the auto kettle efficiency generally hits the mark with a 90min mash?

So with that in mind, I'll wait till I get my gravity into boil and make any changes to my hop additions.

When I ordered my ingredients I've bought enough for two of the same batches so I can play around with hopping rates. Since this will be my first time doing "no-chill", I'm planning on sticking to the original hop addition boil time on the first batch as if I was going to chill, and on the second batch with no-chill (on the same brew day), l'll pushing the 15min addition to flame out and the 1min addition into the cube. From your experience with hop additions for no-chill, Would I notice a difference in bitterness, flavour and aroma between the two planned batches? Do you think I'll be regretting using the hop addition boil times of the first batch?

This California Common recipe is based on the one found in the book "Brewing Classic Styles" - Uncommonly Lucky. This will be the second batch of this recipe I've brewed, the first one is still in the fermenter.

Anyway have a gander at the attached recipe, tell us what you think. If you have brewed this before, what did you think of it?

Cheers topendbrewer.


Oh..another question; with the grain bag, do you normally secure it so the base of the bag sits off the bottom of the kettle?
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Last edited by topendbrewer on 21 Feb 2015, 07:37, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Hmm, this is tough to comment on here. I have BCS and went through the process of making a BIABacus file. I suppose I can private message it to you after posting this.

My thoughts are this ...

When copying a BCS recipe, the original recipe goes in the left hand columns of sections C and D. Any substitutions would go on the right hand side (e.g. caraamber for grains, and AA% for hops). You have IBU's set for 38 tinseth, but the properly translated recipe ends at 35.9 tinseth all by itself. Seems kinda redundant to me to add that 38 IBU. You possibly could have been compensating, because the 24.09L VAW that is incorrectly entered results in 33.8 IBU-tinseth.

Note: The original recipe's VAW for Section D. should be 21.89L. This gives the 22.7L volume at flame out mentioned in the book. Also, Section X default kettle efficiency needs to be set at 75% when entering a BCS recipe, this is the only way to match the grain totals in order to double check the grains are entered correctly. Once this is achieve, the 75% can be deleted ... and the BIABacus predictions will adjust everything based on your system, extra water from longer boil, etc ...

Every recipe I have entered from BCS has perfectly worked out for me, but this one is not adding up. Changing the OG, I believe this is standard practice on Beersmith, but for the BIABacus changing the desired VIF in Section B is the way to go. Entering OG should only be on the left hand side of Section C, unless your recipe has been established and you simply want to scale it. So, for now you're going to want to delete the 1.049 on the right side ... and change the left side to what the book says (1.054). From here we can investigate.

My investigation tells me that there might be a typo in the book, specifically for the extract/base malt conversion amounts. Somebody would have to double check me, but deleting the Munich value has the recipe working out perfectly everywhere else.

Recipe calls for 4530g of base malt, and 560g of Munich. Set the Munich to 0, and everything else matches at 75% kettle efficiency @ 1.054 OG. What I suggest is maybe emailing Jamil for clarification, that's what I would do. I think the 4530g value includes the Munich.

Or, simply subtract 4530g - 560g = 3970g for base malt (and then another 150g for acidulated malt, of course). This way you can add the Munich back in at 560g, and everything jibes again.

I hope all of that made sense, and I wouldn't mind a double check on this one if anyone has the time.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Rick
I also just realized that the 41 IBU Rager for this recipe (listed in book) isn't even making sense. Don't know if I'm missing something major, or what ... but something is really off with this recipe.

Guess I can post the report from my file, just in case anyone wants to compare ...




[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3T RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Recipe Batch Number and Dates[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer:
Style: California Common
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 5.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.054
IBU's (Tinseth): 36
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.67
Colour: 25 EBC = 12.7 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 75 % (temporarily overrided defaults)
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 67.6 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 16 C = 60.8 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 34.02 L = 8.99 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 30.69 L = 8.11 G @ 1.04
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 21.82 L = 5.76 G @ 1.054
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 19.66 L = 5.19 G @ 1.054
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 18.21 L = 4.81 G @ 1.014 assuming apparent attenuation of 74 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

72.4% Golden Promise (6.5 EBC = 3.3 SRM) 3820 grams = 8.42 pounds
10.8% Munich 1 (14 EBC = 7.1 SRM) 569 grams = 1.25 pounds
8.6% CaraAmber (71 EBC = 36 SRM) 454 grams = 1 pounds
4.3% Victory (73.2 EBC = 37.2 SRM) 227 grams = 0.5 pounds
1.1% Pale Chocolate (600 EBC = 304.6 SRM) 57 grams = 0.13 pounds
2.8% Acidulated (3.8 EBC = 1.9 SRM) 150 grams = 0.33 pounds



The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

19 IBU Northern Brewer Pellets (9.6%AA) 17.6 grams = 0.621 ounces at 60 mins
15.6 IBU Northern Brewer Pellets (9.6%AA) 29.1 grams = 1.027 ounces at 15 mins
1.4 IBU Northern Brewer Pellets (9.6%AA) 29.1 grams = 1.027 ounces at 1 mins






Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 34.69 L = 9.16 G 67.4 C = 153.4 F




Mashout for for 2 mins at 78 C = 172.4 F




Miscellaneous Ingredients








Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: Y (Pulled 0 mins after boil end.)
Whirlpool: 0 mins after boil end.
Chilling Method: No Chill (Employed 0 mins after boil end.)

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Wyeast 2112 starter for 14 days at 16 C = 60.8 F
Diacetyl Rest: 3 days at 20 C = 68 F
Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: N
Filtered: N
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.7
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 14 days.
Consume within 2 months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

"
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Last edited by Rick on 05 Feb 2015, 03:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I don't have my book in front of me, atm, but have taken some information from Rick's #2 post (OG and grain adjustments) and some from PistolPatch's posts linked below.

PistolPatch's posts;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3136&p=46274&hilit=bcs+biabacus#p46274

Brewing Classic Styles (BCS) recipes and hop adjustments
Bundy's post;
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 061#p44668

The file I attached below is how I understand the recipe looks as entered into the BIABacus.

Some changes I made of interest are;

Section X - 71.6% efficiency, played 20 questions to find what makes EIF come to 70% in Section P. (per PP link)
Section X - 0.5 litres KFL (per PP link)
Section B - 21.32 litres VIF (per PP link)
Section C - 1.054 OG (Rick)
Section D - 21.82 litres VAW, played 20 questions to find what makes 22.70 litres at flame-out VFO)

If this looks good, then remove my 2 settings in Section X and enter your own value in Section B (VIF, what you want to make).

MS
BIABacus PR1.3T - California Common - Conviction - Batch 2a - MS.xls
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 05 Feb 2015, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
Rick and Mad_Scientist,

Thanks for your info, My understanding of BIABacus and how to interpret recipes has improved lots. One thing I didn't pick up when I read the BCS book was IBUs is stated a Ranger not Tinseth. :idiot:

Sorry for any confusion. The posted recipe is not a direct replica of BCS Califonia Common. The original BCS version was made in Beersmith and scaled to my equipment for a mash and sparge (which i've brewed) then changed again for BIAB using my known BIAB efficiencies then placed into BIABacus. I've just realized my recipe is a bit of a "dogs breakfast" compared with BCS California Common. Anyway live and learn.

I'm now very keen to use BAIBacus to scale BCS California Common correctly, buy some more ingredents, brew and compare with my "dogs breakfast" above (i'm sure it will be fine).

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by mally
That made me laugh T-E-B, I'm sure it will still be a good beer.
The best thing though is you don't have to think about a name for this beer.

I'm sure Rick could design a fantastic label for a California Dogs Breakfast! :lol:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Hmm, here's a rottie chewing on hop vines. Rogue posted this to twitter the other day, and I nearly had an aneurysm worrying if the poor thing was okay.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
mally wrote:That made me laugh T-E-B, I'm sure it will still be a good beer.
The best thing though is you don't have to think about a name for this beer.

I'm sure Rick could design a fantastic label for a California Dogs Breakfast! :lol:
hahahaha, I think I might just name it that :lol:
Last edited by topendbrewer on 06 Feb 2015, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by Scott
TopEndBrewer,

This was my last extract with grains beer, brewed last fall. California Common through Brewing Classic Styles. It didn't attenuate as low as wanted, to 1.020 or so. First 6-8 weeks in Corny was so-so, didn't taste quite right, then suddenly became very solid - quite good. Glad I didn't throw it out. Maybe lagering just took time...and did the trick? Like to hear how yours turns out with BIAB.

Scott
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Re:

Post #10 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
Scott wrote:TopEndBrewer,

This was my last extract with grains beer, brewed last fall. California Common through Brewing Classic Styles. It didn't attenuate as low as wanted, to 1.020 or so. First 6-8 weeks in Corny was so-so, didn't taste quite right, then suddenly became very solid - quite good. Glad I didn't throw it out. Maybe lagering just took time...and did the trick? Like to hear how yours turns out with BIAB.

Scott
Thanks for that info Scott. I reckon most beers need at least 6 weeks of conditioning to reach near full flavour...but I find it extremely hard to to wait that long, normally I'm on my last couple of pints at that stage. Generally it's to two weeks before I hook in, but then there is sampling within the first two weeks, but I call that research on flavour development ;) .
I only just kegged a batch of California Common as per the book Brewing Classic Styles on the weekend which was brewed by traditional mashing methods. My wort produced must of contained high amount of fermentable sugars as my FG ended up as 1.009 (OG of 1.052). Mash temp: 64-65C (147-149F), Ph of 5.20. I have already sampled some tonight, it has a clean malty profile with no off flavours detectable but needs time for the yeast to settle out.

This weekend I'll be BIAB'ing the recipe in my first post above but aiming for a mash temp of 67C (153F) and it will be a double batch, 2 x 20L cubes, so Ill be able to get one keg at least to the 6-7week mark. :lol:

I'll report back :peace:
Last edited by topendbrewer on 10 Feb 2015, 18:01, edited 1 time in total.

Post #11 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
Did the two batches of the recipe in my first post above last Sunday; Califonia Common. Long day but got two cubes. :thumbs:

Everything worked out well. Hit all my volumes and expected gravities. Installed a pulley above the pot which was worth its weight in gold.

The grain bill was the same between the two batches, but because this was my first No-chill, I played around with the hop addition timing to see what difference in perceived hop bitterness/flovour/aroma I will get in the final beer.

The only thing that was off was my initial mash temp which I undershot on my first batch by 1.1 deg C but with my second batch I tweaked section X; "Strike Water Temp Adjustment Factor" until the original strike temp in section E. of the first batch had increased by 1.1 deg C. Using the new stike water temp when I mashed in the mash temp was spot on.

The only other thing I had to manage on the day was my mash Ph. Due to the wet season here I think the water alkalinity has fallen so in my first batch my measured mash Ph at 10min was 4.85. I ended adding 1g at a time of bi-carb soda until the mash Ph was 5.25 (4g all up). In my second batch I added the Bi-card Sada (4.5g) with my other brewing salts and my mash Ph at 10min was 5.44.

All in all I was very happy with BIABacus; I seemed more organised on brew day and was not running around like a head-less chook. I've attached the two completed recipes for your info.

Cheers

topendbrewer :peace:
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Have been enjoying reading this thread since you started it TEB and nice to see all has worked out on the brews.

Really nice job on your checklist :salute:. It really can prevent the running around like a head-less chook scenario :). Nice work on correcting the pH as well.

:thumbs:
PP
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
by topendbrewer
Scott, I just fermented and kegged the 2nd cube of the batch on the weekend, haven't sampled this as yet. The first keg is 2.5 weeks old and tastes quite good, though the minty profile of the Northern Brewer hops is not as pronounced as I would like it. The first Cali Common I made Jan this year had a very nice minty flavour which made the beer nicely refreshing to drink. I think it was because I didn't use a hop sock but this batch I did, the gravities and hopping rates where the same. Not sure. Beer flavour is such a perceived thing, some days my beers tastes good, others, it tastes great.

Overall I liked how it turned out. Next I'll like to brew an Anchor Steam clone.

Post #15 made 9 years ago
by shetc
topendbrewer wrote:Scott, I just fermented and kegged the 2nd cube of the batch on the weekend, haven't sampled this as yet.
How did the second batch come out?
Last edited by shetc on 06 Jan 2016, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
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