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Mash Temp Problem.

Post #1 made 13 years ago
by HbgBill
Ok.. I've read some of the comments stating that one is voiding all the benefits of BIAB by sparging. I understand that. My question is along the same lines.. and maybe sparge/maybe not.

But, I did my first BIAB last week. I may have mentioned that I have a 10G Blichmann pot and my wife built a very nice bag for it. The problem I had was, temperature (amongst other steps I forgot-pH too late and forgot Iodine test). What I noticed was there was a difficulty in maintaining the mash temp. When I put the grains into the water, despite the grains being at room temp, the mash went down to 148*F/64C. So I turned on the burner and found the water in the bottom of the kettle heating up.. and despite my raising/lowering the bag in the pot.. the heat hardly transferred. I had to leave the heat on low for quite some time to get the mash up to temp and it didn't stay there.

I'm thinking it was because the pot was SO large vs the amount of water in it (3G/11+Liters) that it simply could not maintain well.

So, my question is.. (flame throwers off please :) ).. have any of you either done or considered building a bag that fits an insulated cooler and used that for mashing? I have a 10G Igloo/Marine cooler that I built to use as a MT.. but never did an all grain until this BIAB.. so, the MT is unused... but, once it is heated with sparge water at, say, 165*F.. and I dump the grain, it should be able to hold the temp well, even if I have to put an aluminum bubble wrap piece on top of the wort.

I'd appreciate feedback. I could go with a much smaller pot and wrap in a sleeping bag.. but, that negates the beautiful pot I spend 1/3 of my Social Security $$ for. :headhit: :blush: Once mashed, I could pull the bag, drain the MT and squeeze the bag for the balance of the wonder liquid.
Bill
Hop Song Brewing-Santa Rosa, California

Post #2 made 13 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Bill, I will encourage you to keep trying with your pot, don't you have a dial thermometer on that? Do what BobBrew does and drain a couple of quarts out through the valve and return it on top. The bag acts as a heat barrier, it takes a little time to stabilize. It also helps to take a temp reading inside the bag. Then maybe think about a sleeping bag down the track, but with your climate, I don't think you would bother, I don't here in Florida.

Else, mail me that thing and I'll run tests with it. :thumbs:
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
by GuingesRock
I wouldn’t fuss too much about it HbgBill (that’s a personal opinion that others may not agree with).

I just put my latest brew into BIABacus and it came up with 79.5% efficiency and an attenuation of 78% (if I did it right, and I think I did). I didn’t insulate the pot or re-heat and the mash went from 156F to 146F over a 90 min mash period.

OG was 1.068, FG was 1.015, ABV 6.8%. Grain bill 15.5 lbs Marris Otter only. TWN 9 gallons. EOBV-A 26L

I think that’s pretty good. I’m not sure though as I don’t have that much experience.

Some theory and practice regarding the possibility of not insulating the mash was discussed on another thread. The thread has both practical and theoretical input from several participants, both for and against: http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1880

Failing that an old parker coat works great. I used one on my 16 gal pot before I stopped insulating.
Last edited by GuingesRock on 14 Mar 2013, 01:30, edited 2 times in total.
Guinges

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by joshua
HbgBill, While the heat is on, you will need to stir the wort, so the heat can mix in the wort.

Once you get to Mash temps, Some old blankets or a cheap sleeping bag(or Both) wrapped around the kettle and on top will really help keep the Temperature within 3F.

Not knowing what SWMBO does, can she make a "Tea Cozy" for your Kettle???? maybe from an old Quilt???

Insulating the kettle is MUCH easier tha going back to 3V or Even 2V.

Just a last bit of info....Small volumes loses temperature faster than LARGE MASSES.
Last edited by joshua on 14 Mar 2013, 02:24, edited 1 time in total.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 13 years ago
by HbgBill
Thanks guys. Josh, I did stir.. like crazy.. dipped up and down and stirred too. I think getting the temp BACK up was a big issue and labor intensive. I also tried what MS said that BB does.. "lauter" by drawing hot water off the bottom and pouring on top. Seems the kettle is just to huge to manage this temp.

I'll be trying another batch in a couple of weeks to see if I can improve. One BIG thing I need to do is to build a brewday sheet so I don't forget to check pH, iodine test, etc. Too many things to forget when you are doing a new process.. :dunno: Another thing might be to hook up my March pump and use that to recirculate the hot liquor at the bottom.. :o: Getting too complicated.. :argh:
Bill
Hop Song Brewing-Santa Rosa, California

Post #7 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Bill, You hit the real answer, 11L/3gallon in a 40L/10gallon can be a REAL problem.

I use a 31QT/30L kettle for 3 gallon/11L batchs and it is a bit too large also.

I am looking for a 20-25 Quart stockpot taller than its Diameter. Not much luck so far.....
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 13 years ago
by mally
When I put the grains into the water, despite the grains being at room temp, the mash went down to 148*F/64C
HBGBill - I have just a few questions for you; what temp were you hoping to hit after mash in? Did you use the BIABacus to calculate the strike temp?
Some may say just add a few degees on to your strike, but if you have the tools why not use them I say?
I usually find my temp drops a little more than the BIABAcus says, however, a) thats because i tend to "pratt" about, and b) I only use it as a guide anyhow.

You could go the guinges route and not worry at all, or wrap it up. I used to use an old "duvet" but have now resorted to radiator reflector sheets (polystyrene with aluminium foil back).

Finally though it is probably as Joshua has said, the small volume in a big pot will be harder to work with.
Last edited by mally on 14 Mar 2013, 02:26, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #9 made 13 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
joshua wrote:Bill, You hit the real answer, 11L/3gallon in a 40L/10gallon can be a REAL problem.

I use a 31QT/30L kettle for 3 gallon/11L batchs and it is a bit too large also.

I am looking for a 20-25 Quart stockpot taller than its Diameter. Not much luck so far.....
Northernbrewer's got a new line of kettles, called Tall Boy. An 8G is 90USD. Find out who makes them and buy direct, if possible.
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 14 Mar 2013, 05:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
by HbgBill
Mally.. yesssir.. I was hoping to hit 152-153.. And yes, I used BIABacus which is an another post HERE if this link works. It's posts 1091 where new members convert recipes.
Last edited by HbgBill on 14 Mar 2013, 05:06, edited 2 times in total.
Bill
Hop Song Brewing-Santa Rosa, California

Post #12 made 13 years ago
by joshua
MS, the 8 gallon Tall boy is just a little bit differnt than my 7.9 gallon kettle, which is too big to do 2.91 gallon Batchs.....BoooHooo.

But, Thanks for the post!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #13 made 13 years ago
by HbgBill
GuingesRock wrote:Bill, How did you do that? Link to a post rather than a page. Never figured that out. Guess I'm a bit dim. :sad:
Part of the bbc coding. When you want to link to a webpage, typically (on this forum) you get When you do that you are "opening the link" and "closing the link" The "/" is the close of that particular code.

However, if you don't want to see a long code referencing the page you would boink the 'URL" above and add the link as usual.. but you modify it. So, as a for instance, if you wanted to tell someone on the forum to go to the Home Page.. and let's say your sentence would be.. "Hey Bill, check THIS out.. and want the word THIS to link to the Home Page you would modify the [URL}http://www.biabrewer.info[/URL] to the following...

THIS

And, if you want to highlight the word "THIS", you can either double click on THIS and hit the "B" button above to make it BOLD or you can underline it by click on the underscore U button to make it look like THIS

Or you can color THIS by double clicking on THIS and choosing a color from the pallet to the right to make it look like THIS

Only the first example actually links to the home page.

Hope that helps. I don't know what you know and don't so I went thru a couple of iterations. Sorry if you knew some of it. :D
Last edited by HbgBill on 14 Mar 2013, 08:13, edited 2 times in total.
Bill
Hop Song Brewing-Santa Rosa, California

Post #14 made 13 years ago
by mally
Also GR;
If you click on the post number #xxxx (just under the authors name)& copy that code in the URL to your link, that will take you directly to that post number (not just the start of the page).
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
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