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First brew - what to do with 1lb extra malt

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by imafan
Hello,
I'm about to start my fisrt beer brew ever (have done some wine but never beer). I'm making a centennial blonde (Biermuncher's on homebrewtalk) that calls for a total of 8.8lb of malt (7lb pale malt, 12oz carapils, .5lb caramel, .5lb vienna malt). However, I just double checked the grind i bought from my LHBS and the bag is 9.8 lb. Should I remove 1 lb or just brew it all? What do i need to adjust in biabacus?

Thanks,
billy
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Post #2 made 9 years ago
by Scott
Okay, does your weight include the bag? If so that could be the culprit.

From what I see you are looking for a 1.040 beer with an ABV around 4% - low alcohol. Provided this is what you are looking for - and the weight is accurate, you can always increase your volume of liquid... But the IBUs from hops will be a bit light if malt is too much but hops correct and you increase water. If this is corrcect and you can increase hops all stats in balance. Or go for a bigger (higher OG / ABV) beer... Multiple options for you here...

Went and reviewed your intro post. No problem if you prefer lighter IBU beers (not all of us are IPA fans). Let me / us know if questions.
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Post #3 made 9 years ago
by imafan
Thanks Scott! The bag is .10 lb (typical paper bag). Increase liquid would probably mess up with fermenter volume? I just started mashing with the extra lb (brew night is easier than day when wife'n kids are in bed :D). Is there a way to calculate a new OG? or should i just wait and measure at the end of mashing with hydrometer?

Post #4 made 9 years ago
by Scott
Sorry...may have got this too late. I'm up early this morning. Looks like you may have brewed late last night. Hope this isn't too much of a ramble... :think:

Yes, brew kettle and fermenter would have to have enough space available. I have excess capacity and didn't consider that you may not...

Pulling a pound of grain out should work. Of course you won't know which part of the grain is being pulled out, so pulling a pound out could be a problem (upset the "balance").

If you did not brew yet...
If you haven't brewed yet you can change your desired VIF to have it equal the weight of the grains available (of course you will need more hops...to keep the same IBUs for your brew). If you did not brew yet and want a smaller beer, this is what I would do. If you don't have more hops and want to use what you have realizing IBUs will be lower, in the Hops section there is a field for changing your beer's IBUs and you can lower it until it matches the hops you have. (I wouldn't like to lower the IBUs so hopefully you have more hops...) Sounds like you may have already brewed....so this may be a moot point.

If you brewed already...
Wort should have too high an OG (if your check and recheck of the grain weight - and it is too much by the weight you listed). So if you brewed what you have you either take a "bigger beer" with more alcohol, or lower the OG now to lower the resulting beer's alcohol. Provided you have enough fermenter volume available you can add water. I'll give you a link - skim down to my response to Oldgit, the part about the Math Example to lower your OG:

http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... git#p54559

Again, this will fix the OG issue by lowering it if you want a smaller beer with less body and alcohol, but messes up the hops / IBU. Hopefully you had some extra hops and put them in. (Rough math - you would want to add about the same % hop as you added extra malt...). Or just realize by lowering the OG you will be lowering the bitterness of the beer as well.

Best to change the brew plans in the BIABacus (first example)...

And if there isn't any more room in your fermenter for extra wort, you are pretty much stuck with the wort you brewed... Brew would end up being a little bit bigger than you planned, about 10% so not a big deal, and you will probably like it anyway. ;)

For sure let us know what you did (and again later, how it turns out). :luck:
Last edited by Scott on 08 May 2017, 00:28, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #5 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
You can expect another 6 points of GAW, so a 1.046.....

1# of grain is 35.49 ppg into 5.86 gallons of VAW.


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Post #6 made 9 years ago
by imafan
Thanks for the info Scott. It'll be useful for future brew. I brewed last night with the extra malt and got pretty close to Mad_Scientist calculation, actual GAW is 1.045 (GIB was 1.040). I'll review and update my speadsheet with the actual values later for follow up questions/suggestions. I tasted the wort this morning it tasted like sweet un-fermented beer! wohoo!

Also as an experiment, I hot sparge the spent grain in a bow and got an extra quart of wort with GIB 1.042. I didn't add it to the boil as volume was already higher than spreadsheet. It tasted great like sweet malt barley tea. Is it normal for sparge to get higher gravity or am i seeing things?

Post #7 made 9 years ago
by Scott
I would've expected a little bit lower gravity...

For sure you can get some more wort out of the remaining grain if you try... Put smaller amount of water in a smaller pot, heat up to mash temps. Let soak for awhile and squeeze out. Can boil and end up with as high of gravity as you want. (Evaporation will condense remaining wort).

Local homebrew shop manager recommended this as a way to make yeast starter. Then dilute to property gravity and amount for starter. Then put these in 1-gal freezer bags and place it in the freezer over my beer fridge. (Be careful that wort from bag doesn't squeeze into wire rack and freeze.) One way to use it. But Of course it can also be used to make more beer...

I've got a dozen or so starters in the freezer right now, made this way or from trub squeezed through the BIAB bag to save wort, then diluted to 1.040 for starter.
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Post #8 made 9 years ago
by imafan
The results are in! So it looks like I got more wort (6.05 gallon) and higher OG for this batch than estimate. Good problem to have?:)
Questions:
- can I ferment all 6.05 gallon in a 6.5 gallon carboy or do I need to cut back some in case overflow?

- Do i need to filter trub when transferring from pot to carboy? wort was cloudy after boil but I think sediments got settled at bottom of pot. Maybe i can use the trub wort for future starter? how much volume should i freeze for each starter bag?

- Kettle to fermenter loss seems a lot lower than estimate (.35 vs .85), is it normal for no-chill with lid closed? I suppose it makes sense that condensation on lid dripped back to pot. I didn't want to leave pot open to keep it as sterilized as possible
.
-Suggestion for next time? try the same recipe see if it's repeatable or cutback on water/grain?


Thanks,
Billy
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Post #9 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Your evaporation rate looks good. Are you saying that you boiled with the lid on? Yeah, you should have gotten at least 3L of KFL. Do you think that 2L made into the fermenter?

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Post #10 made 9 years ago
by imafan
I boiled with lid off but closed lid after boil when cooling down. I think this caused KFL to be low? Does active chilling (immersion,etc) usually have higher KFL than no chill?

Post #11 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
It's all good. Your actuals look good too, keep an eye out though for what the fermenter leaves behind.


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Post #13 made 9 years ago
by Scott
I would go with it... Almost 1/2 gallon of head space. If you have a blow off tube, use it. It might be needed...not sure, depends on the fermentation. I'd put it in the fermenter and see what happens. (Wait...sounds like it's already there).

No need to filter yeast. Let it settle to the bottom of the brew kettle before transferring (which you already did). Try to avoid getting settiment in the fermenter but don't worry about it if some gets there.

For starters I use 16 ounces @ 1.040. If it is higher gravity than that I dilute to get 1.040 (use the formula I gave link to at start of this thread...). And squeezing the wort from the trub in the bag works well. But realize that isn't sanitary and you will have to deal with that later... When you have excess ounces (often there is) I measure and add to a bag...and label the contents in there. Later - when time to use I dethaw bag in kitchen sink in warm water. Add wort to an Erlenmeyer Flask, put aluminum foil on top to limit evaporation and bring it to boil. (Can use cleaned and sanitized growler, etc.) Let cool...before using water / ice to avoid breaking container. When get down to pitch temperature, pitch yeast... (I don't have stir plate...works well with simple agitation). Have this on kitchen counter and agitate it frequently.

Full Disclosure:
I harvest yeast ("sloppy slurry" method)...and frequently brew lagers (lagers probably 60-65% of the time, to ales 35-40%). Lagers need more yeast than ales. If you only brewed ales and brewed using the same yeast very frequently, and didn't brew high OG beers, may not need a starter... And if brewing an ale from new yeast, 5 gallon batch, and not a high OG beer - you probably don't need a starter, least not most of the time. But that doesn't describe my situation... This is a bit of a ramble...sorry.

On brewing same beer next time - only if you want to. Keep your records. There will be a next time" for this recipe, quite likely - provided you like it, and you can always refer to it then. Even if other beers you will probably be reviewing to remind yourself what you did in your BIABacus. My first couple batches of beer, my BIABacus was a bit of a mess. But going through "the process" helped later on. And I got some great help from many of the guys on the forum that post frequently (such as Mad Scientist, PistolPatch...there are many others, all very helpful guys on here that helped me hugely to learn this great hobby!!! And still learning, BTW).
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Post #14 made 9 years ago
by imafan
Thanks Scott and Mad_scientist for your advice. I just transferred the wort to fermenter and left the bottom grub. Figured the yeast slurry will be less trub if i decide to reuse for another batch. It come out to about 5gal of clean wort to fermenter (not sure where the 5gallon mark is on the 6.5g carboy-see pic attached)

I just pitched a bag of safale s05. For wine, i normally stir daily for the first few days to induce oxygen for yeast growth. Do i need to stir for beer or just let it be with airlock on?
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Post #15 made 9 years ago
by Scott
I normally shake wort vigorously before pitching wort. After pitching I will sometimes give it a shake now and then the first few days for extra O2 but the additional shaking may not be that important... Supposedly if you do it late in the fermentation it can oxidize your beer. (?) So I avoid doing it later on, but don't worry about it too much just the same...

Nice to hear that you're on your way...! Good job. For sure, let us know how it turns out.

I've got to try wine fermentation sometime too...never done that yet. Great Pinot Noir harvest last year in Oregon, both quality and volume. Had an acquaintance that (I found out a few weeks after the fact) ended up throwing out all of his Pinot Gris grapes last year. Because of the banner crop, he didn't have enough room in his fermenters for both Pinot Gris and his Pinot Noir crop. Pinot Noir is the super prized variety...so he dumped the Pinot Gris and kept just Pinot Noir. Told him if that happens again to pass the Pinot Gris on to me... :thumbs:
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