First Brew Questions

Post #1 made 10 years ago
Hi,
First of all this site has been so good to help me get going into BIAB and I've spent quite a lot of time looking around the forums at the wealth of knowledge and it's so good. I have a few questions coming up for my first brew which will be a 4 Pines Pale Ale clone (possibly should have gone something a little easier for my first...). See attached for BIABacus and the link to the original recipe: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/ ... -jaker-v20. I just wanted to see how I went with my conversion. I left off the simcoe as finishing hops but just noticed that it is the bittering hop off the 4 pines website as opposed to the Citra on this :/ .

I'll be no-chilling this so I've followed the take 20mins off the time shown methodology so my hop additions would be:

Boil:
22g Citra @60mins (I assume keeping this the same as it's just bittering is fine)
17g Cascade @10mins

Steeping:
?? I'm unsure when to do this.

Then add the Citra and Cascade to the FV after the krausen has died.
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Last edited by Peakey on 07 Apr 2016, 06:32, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 10 years ago
Peakey, This looks like you want to do a "Hop Stand" (adding Hops at Flame out,

You should use a Hop Sack, since you will need to Pull the Hops out before you transfer to the fermenter.

Steeping Usually lasts 15 to 30 minutes, depending on the ambient temperatures, and wort Volume.

You can pull the Hops at or near 155F, since the Hop Components you want are no longer available.

Also, it is best to transfer the wort to the No-chill Container, above 145F, to Sterilize the interior.

Your Recipe looks good!
Image
Last edited by joshua on 07 Apr 2016, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
Thanks Joshua for the advice, when you say transfer to the fermenter after pulling the hops do you mean the no chill container? I'm a bit confused. Or do you mean putting a hop sack in the no chill container?

Post #4 made 10 years ago
Peaky, The NO-Chill Container, can be your Fermenter.

You do not need to leave the Used Hops in the Wort.

It is best to use a Hop Sack for the Bitterness Addition, and then with the Hop-stand, so you can pull the sack out, and REALLY reduce the TRUB, in the Kettle

If your Going to dry Hop, a hop-sack should not be used, if you have a small neck Bottle style Fermenter, since you may NEVER get it out of the Bottle.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
Hi Joshua thanks I understand now, my FV and No chill are separate containers and thats why I was confused.

I'll add the late additions at flame out for somewhere in the time frame you gave and adjust for tasting next time.

I have a stainless steel tea ball thing for my FV for dry hop additions (this will be my biggest dry hop addition yet so I hope it can take it). I must admit i got a little confused when i read about people cube hopping etc and didn't know if that's what I should have been doing for this recipe

Post #6 made 10 years ago
Peaky, Once the Hop-stand Hops drop below 153F they are Useless. See "Late Wort Hopping"
at http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=2215

I forgot to say, if you can have a sterile Spoon, you can check the Flavor and Bitterness, while waiting for the Hop-Stand to finish,

It is Sometimes Amazing, the Difference of the wort, Between flame-out, and the Hop-stand ending.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
Peakey wrote:I just wanted to see how I went with my conversion.... I'll be no-chilling this so I've followed the take 20mins off the time shown methodology so my hop additions would be:
Hi Peakey,

The BIABacus, if you have the right information, makes it super easy to duplicate recipes. There's quite a few things we need to change in your file as you've tried to do a lot of calculations that are actually done automatically for you in the BIABacus. This has resulted in some large errors.

Below, I'm going to duplicate the original recipe as this should be your starting point before making any changes to it.

Let's go through the main sections...

[center]Section C[/center]
Original Gravity (OG)

First up, the OG in the original recipe is 1.049 not 1.053 so we need to change that. If you did want it to be 1.053 for some reason, you'd type that on the right of the first line, not the left.

The Original Grain Bill Desigin

On the left-hand side of Section C, in the Grain Bill Design section, all you need to do is copy the weights in from the original recipe. It's as simple as that! So, instead of having 4200 of Pale Malt, you should have 8620 and so on.

On the right-hand side, you don't need to type in anything. The only time you would type anything on the right is if you chose an alternative malt e.g. 'Extra Pale Malt'.

I've also changed the colours to match the original recipe.

[center]Section D[/center]
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW)

Firstly, it's often really difficult to copy recipes from external sources as they often lack critical information. Let's have a look...

The first thing we want to know when copying a recipe is the volume of wort produced at the end of the boil. This 'Volume at Flame-out (VFO)' once it has chilled to ambient is called 'Volume of Ambient Woret (VAW)'. Our first problem is that we don't know what that was. The recipe just says, 'Batch Size' and some BeerSmith users set this up to be VFO, VAW or 'Volume into Fermenter (VIF)' for reasons I won't go into here. The only way you will be able to determine what they mean is if you have the BeerSmith program and are a member of the cloud thing; that way you can download the recipe and see how the user has set up the recipe.

I've downloaded the recipe and clicked on the brewer's equipment profile. He has 46 litres going into the fermenter and has kettle to fermenter losses of 2 L do, his VAW is 48 L.

So, on the first line of Section D, change your 23 L to 48 L.

The Original Hop Bill Design

Same as in Section C, all you need to do here is type in the actual weights etc as used in the original recipe. Also, on the right-hand side, you only need to type in anything that is different, so you can get rid of everything on the right except for the AA%'s as they are your hops and differ in their percentage from the original.

So we need to change all the weights on the left to match the original bill. (I've added in the dry hopped Simcoe from the original recipe as well).

Secondly, there is no need to type in 0.1. Just type in 0. There is no need for any timing beside the dry hops.

Thirdly, don't second guess the no-chill timing business. For all you know, the original brewer might have no-chilled himself. Don't make no-chill adjustments (have a read here as to why).

[center]The File[/center]
That's all we need to change so here is the file. I noticed when I opened your file it has page breaks and Page stamps on it. I've got rid of the stamps but not the dotted lines.
BIABacus PR1.3H - Pale Ale - 4 Pines V1.xls
[center]General Notes[/center]
Recipe cloud sites are not a great source of high integrity recipes. Often new brewers with no experience post to the sites often without ever even having brewed the recipe. Others can vot on the recipe as well but you really don't know what they are voting on. Do they just like the beer it is trying to clone or have they actually brewed it?

On this recipe, I looked into the brewer's equipment profile and his evaporation rate is set at 1.89 L which is nowhere near reality. This is a sign that the brewer is probably a very new all-grain brewer.

With your dry hops, add them 3-4 days before packaging. Putting them in after high krausen is too early if you are going to leave this for 12 days.

...

I did another long post the other day that talks on things that are probably also relevant here, so that might be worth a read.

I think that's it!

:peace:
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Apr 2016, 13:41, edited 1 time in total.
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First Brew Questions

Post #9 made 10 years ago
I would also say that with a first brew the most important thing to do is to measure everything. By everything I mainly mean specific gravity and volume at different points in the process.

This way you can accurate ideas of how much wort you lose to grain absorption, evaporation and to trub. Once you get a good idea of what these losses are on your system you will be able to reproduce recipes more accurately but it can take a bit of time.

Relax and don't overthink the first brew. Work through the process and you will make great beer!

Post #10 made 10 years ago
Shieeeet. Thanks for checking through that and taking the time to provide a detailed response I know it would have taken quite a while to analyse all that so I am grateful! I've been told I over complicate things which seems to be most of my issues that you pointed out.

I'm not sure if I've missed something and I'm sure that the wheat malt bill is a typo and should be 1080gms?

Again very appreciative of the detailed review.

Post #12 made 10 years ago
Had a very successful day thanks to everyone's help. I believe I hit all my numbers spot on.
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Post #13 made 10 years ago
Great to hear Peakey. Keep us posted on the results.
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Post #14 made 9 years ago
Turned out an amazing drop, thanks to all! It ended up a tad darker than the real deal, but very thankful for Joshua's advice about the hops. I was worried I was going to have a super bitter beer from no chilling but the flavour is amazing, very fruity.

Post #15 made 9 years ago
Good stuff Peakey and congratulations :thumbs:.

All you have left to do now is post a pic of your beer in the thread and then go back to post #1 and edit it so there is a tick beside it :lol:.

Good on you,
PP
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