At the moment I am in the process of using a liquid yeast for the first time, more out of curiosity than anything else.
I intend to use White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast in a DrSmurto Golden Ale. I'm not really fussed about splitting or making starters etc as I haven't the equipment, (eg: mason jars or flasks etc), my ambition is to shake the crap out of the vial and use it direct in my 19l 1.047 Ale and aerate by shaking vigorously for a while.
I know white labs and such say you should make a starter, but there are also others on google who say it can be done direct.
so whats the general consensus here? yes or no or maybe... Also can I put another batch of the same Ale directly on the yeast pad in the fermentor after bottling??
cheers
Al
Post #2 made 8 years ago
If it's relatively fresh you can use it straight from the vial, may start a little slower but should be OK. Another option (to be really sure) would be to use 2 vials. As to racking another batch on top of the cake after you bottle....hell yeah, the yeast will love it and that fermentation will probably take off like a rocket.
---Todd
---Todd
WWBBD?
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #3 made 8 years ago
Racking on top of a ‘yeast cake’ will work and will produce a good beer. But it isn’t the best practice and IMO you are better off racking to a clean fermentor and collecting the yeast and re-pitching (it’s super easy to do!)
The ‘yeast slurry’ at the end of fermentation is not just healthy yeast it will be also be made up of plenty of dead yeast cells as well as all the break material, hops etc. That’s why it’s always better to collect the yeast and use only the most healthiest of cells by separating it from the dead yeast, trub etc. That way you will be using only healthy yeast with a good viability to provide the best yeast growth on your next batch.
Like Todd said if the vial is relatively new you can pitch without a starter. Always worth using: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to give a rough idea.
The ‘yeast slurry’ at the end of fermentation is not just healthy yeast it will be also be made up of plenty of dead yeast cells as well as all the break material, hops etc. That’s why it’s always better to collect the yeast and use only the most healthiest of cells by separating it from the dead yeast, trub etc. That way you will be using only healthy yeast with a good viability to provide the best yeast growth on your next batch.
Like Todd said if the vial is relatively new you can pitch without a starter. Always worth using: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to give a rough idea.
Last edited by windrider on 19 Jun 2015, 22:30, edited 1 time in total.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Great Britain
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Post #4 made 8 years ago
I'd like to add a couple of things.
Pitching a vial direct into the fermentor and racking your next one on top of the yeast cake will make beer. They will not result in the same beer even if the yeast strain and recipe are the same. The rate at which you pitch healthy, clean yeast compared to the volume and gravity of the beer will affect the taste, attenuation and mouthfeel of the finished beer, among other things. The pitching rate is one more piece of the recipe and process that a brewer can manipulate to get a desired result. In your clone beer, you would need to know what pitching rate with WLP001 to use.
The point of this is not to discourage you. I don't have a lab or even know how to use equipment in a lab. But I think it's important to realize that there is a pitching rate sweet spot for each beer. Many people, including myself, have found that using starters was the thing that helped find the sweet spot as well as ensure that the yeast was at their healthiest when pitched. My beers improved greatly.
Pitching a vial direct into the fermentor and racking your next one on top of the yeast cake will make beer. They will not result in the same beer even if the yeast strain and recipe are the same. The rate at which you pitch healthy, clean yeast compared to the volume and gravity of the beer will affect the taste, attenuation and mouthfeel of the finished beer, among other things. The pitching rate is one more piece of the recipe and process that a brewer can manipulate to get a desired result. In your clone beer, you would need to know what pitching rate with WLP001 to use.
The point of this is not to discourage you. I don't have a lab or even know how to use equipment in a lab. But I think it's important to realize that there is a pitching rate sweet spot for each beer. Many people, including myself, have found that using starters was the thing that helped find the sweet spot as well as ensure that the yeast was at their healthiest when pitched. My beers improved greatly.
Post #5 made 8 years ago
Thanks guys I appreciate the input from you all and thanks for taking the time.
OK so by looking at the answers given I would be best to use 2 vials, racking to a clean fermentor and collecting the yeast and re-pitching. I am not keen on secondary's as I believe it creates that extra risk of infection, but I would do it if that's whats needed.
So I guess the procedure will be.... 2 vials direct (yeast has use by date of August 2015)...ferment for 2 weeks... Secondary for a week then bottle..( Could I just leave a bit on the bottom of the secondary and rack brew #2 straight onto that after bottling?)... Oh and Windrider I love the way you said... "collecting the yeast and re-pitching (it’s super easy to do!)" .....Mate I'm one of these guys that can measure twice and stuff it up 3 times, believe me "super easy" just doesn't apply in my case :( lol
OK so by looking at the answers given I would be best to use 2 vials, racking to a clean fermentor and collecting the yeast and re-pitching. I am not keen on secondary's as I believe it creates that extra risk of infection, but I would do it if that's whats needed.
So I guess the procedure will be.... 2 vials direct (yeast has use by date of August 2015)...ferment for 2 weeks... Secondary for a week then bottle..( Could I just leave a bit on the bottom of the secondary and rack brew #2 straight onto that after bottling?)... Oh and Windrider I love the way you said... "collecting the yeast and re-pitching (it’s super easy to do!)" .....Mate I'm one of these guys that can measure twice and stuff it up 3 times, believe me "super easy" just doesn't apply in my case :( lol
I used to spill more than I drink these days!
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- From Australia
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Post #6 made 8 years ago
@Alanem, I'm with Todd. Keep it simple. Use 2 vials, don't secondary and pitch onto yeast cake. There's no reason that this won't make excellent beer. If you're relatively new to this don't overcomplicate it
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Post #7 made 8 years ago
[quote="Lars"]@Alanem, I'm with Todd. Keep it simple. Use 2 vials, don't secondary and pitch onto yeast cake. There's no reason that this won't make excellent beer. If you're relatively new to this don't overcomplicate it
Mate, you and Todd have both won me over with simplicity, I think using LY for the first time and on a trial and error basis, this is perhaps the best idea so that's how I will go.
Maybe at a later date, and I am happy with the brewing results from liquid yeasts, I'll then establish a small lab and go with the more thorough procedure as per suggestions by windrider and safebrew222.
Thanks guys
Al
Mate, you and Todd have both won me over with simplicity, I think using LY for the first time and on a trial and error basis, this is perhaps the best idea so that's how I will go.
Maybe at a later date, and I am happy with the brewing results from liquid yeasts, I'll then establish a small lab and go with the more thorough procedure as per suggestions by windrider and safebrew222.
Thanks guys
Al
Last edited by alanem on 22 Jun 2015, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!
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- From Australia
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