The SS auto-syphon is something that I have wanted to see made for years and I helped Wizard a bit on the design of this a few years ago hoping that it would become a commercial reality. I did end up though with one of the two stainless steel auto-syphons in existence of Wizards .

It's really good but there are still a few important things that need to be improved to increase the ease of use and reduce the clumsiness. It's all in my head* and I'd be happy to spend some time on this project again if you guys think you could make it commercially viable (for all of us - we need something to pay for the time we spend here ). Send me a PM or something.


PP

* Same goes with BIAB bags which might help BIABrewer out .

I can handle all the CAD work myself, but we can communicate our ideas back and forth that way if you wish? We really should do this.

There absolutely has to be a check valve, in my mind. I think Wizard simply covered the inlet hole with his finger to create the pressure needed, and that doesn't work for me.

I've been thinking about how to do this, and if parts are even feasible with stainless or delrin. I can fabricate the check valve plug to be light as possible, but there is a chance the flow might not be strong enough to keep it unseated. I do have some 6AL4V titanium on hand, but not much.

I also see an issue with securing the plunger to the tubing of the cane, so it does not slide. A press fit might not be strong enough, so my mind has been going on how to make me feel better about that. I may be able to use a super fine thread, one that could work with the limited wall thickness of the tubing without weakening it too much. This could also prove to not be strong enough. I'm not wanting to use adhesives. A set screw might work, but that seems like a place for bacteria to collect.

There is also the 1/2" or 3/8" hose diameter decision to make.

I'm open to ideas.

Whatever I do, I'll need to know maximum OD, so this will fit in standard carboy necks.

This is what I'm thinking for the check valve plug (rough mock up of the basics). The taper is the seat, and the flow chamber will have a mating seat of the same angle. The posts are guides to keep it from tumbling inside the chamber. The seat side post will have to be much smaller in diameter to allow maximum flow to come through. I can even point it to increase flow, but that's just getting pedantic I think. Flat back of cone is the back stop ... and the post on this side can be mated with a tighter diameter, with just enough clearance to allow free travel.

The post diameters can be very small, think <3mm or 1/8". The plug seat can also be a concave radius instead of an angle, which would lighten it even more. Obviously the flow chamber would have to be convex. I can also drill material from the very center to lighten it, if need be. I just cannot drill through, obviously.

I don't have a lot of options for stainless tubing, best I can find for a housing is seamless 1.500 OD .07 wall thickness 316L. I have 4ft length I can use, which should make 2 siphons.

I have smaller sizes, but the wall thicknesses are only .05. I plan to make ID threads to secure the parts to the housing, so .05 thickness is a bit flimsy for that.

Hmm, I should probably post all of this in a different thread.

For the one way valve I was thinking more of something like this.
I have no idea whether they are fit for purpose, or cost effective but they are 316 & use Viton seals & could possibly screw to the tubing if you tap the O.D.
I am just linking this website as a concept/idea.

Hmm, yeah .. something like that would cost anywhere from $80-180 from my supplier. If I hadn't already pushed the limits on getting silicone tubing, I might have tried to order something like that through the company.

I understand how check valves work, so I'll continue to think of other possible solutions that will cost me only time.

I decided to make a bigger one, even though they are prone to problems I really want to see if I can make the 1/2" work. The stainless tubing for the racking cane pc. is sufficiently thick enough to where I can thread the OD of that with decently strong pitched thread. The thread I will make will have to be custom, so I need to thread the tubing first and use that as a gauge for threading the ID of these. Much easier this way.

5 degree taper on the delrin, and .025" interference fit to the housing ID. I left a little gap there to allow for springing. The delrin locates on the hub diameter of the back hub, and will be pinched between the two hubs. Shouldn't move at all, and will be plenty strong.

On the weekend (or maybe later today) Rick/mally, I'll email you how to get around the valve problem. That part is actually really easy/simple and works very well.

Excellent, for now I'll work on polishing/machining the housing, and then attach the plunger to the cane. I have a lot of free time over the next few days, so this is a perfect filler.

Close up of the thread. Again, blurry. I'm really not Michael J. Fox, honestly ...

Assembly completed pic, and I machined a 10 degree lead into the bore of the housing for ease of insertion. It went right in, and felt about right as far as drag is concerned.

I'll wait until we decide on a plan of attack for the valve, before I trim anything down to a finished length. So much of that will depend on how I design that particular part, so I'll leave everything full length for now.

Rick wrote:Hmm, I should probably post all of this in a different thread.

Just sent you and mally through some details and pics. I reckon just use email for now. Pics etc will just get lost here - save 'em for later . If anyone else has been reading this and wants to jump in and help then they can just send a PM.

Email me all your pics though - love 'em . I might also have a few other engineering things/ideas you might enjoy.

Just an update. This is separate from the project that Pat had in mind, but I already had the momentum, so I figured why not!

100% complete, she's a beaut.

Stainless Steel and Teflon are the only materials used.

Rick,

It Looks great and works! I look great too, but I don't work very well So what are you going to charge me for my copy? You did a awesome job! Thank you very much for your time and efforts. Simply amazing!

Thanks, Bob!

Well, I think we need to iron out some information before more can be made.

With current materials, I can definitely make a perfect copy of this. Testing last night, it pumped 5 gallons in 2m36s when held on an angle. When held perpendicular to the floor it'll do 3m14s. The height was basically kitchen table height, to the floor. YMMV depending on your typical kettle height, etc ..

The reason for the time difference is that the valve plug seats into, and blocks one of the 5 flow holes when held perpendicular to the ground. That's why I have 5 holes, knowing the plug can only block one at a time. Tilting it slightly the plug will be free to rattle around the chamber like crazy. All 5 flow holes are utilized as a result. The louder/faster it rattles the faster it is sucking. So basically, it has a stealth mode that I did not plan for, if you want it. 3+ minutes is still pretty damn fast.

I haven't weighed it, but it could easily be used to beat brewery intruders to death .. if need be. This means shipping would likely be a nightmare. It took me a total of about 20 hours to design and fabricate, but the second time around would be at most .. half that.

Some revisions might need to be made in order to make this thing practical. Pat, mally and myself are working on that, so you may want to wait a bit for a more sane product?

It started perfectly with a hose pinch (while bringing the cane upward only) and single pump. It did not even come close to stopping for the entire transfer, and I repeated 4x.

The outside diameter (1.5") will fit into a Better Bottle, but there is not much clearance, so getting down into the corners is not possible. Not much liquid was left behind, but it's worth a mention for those who fancy carboys and such.

One benefit of this large tubing, is that if one needed to simply use this as a manual hand pump .. it can take in a massive volume with each single stroke.

Lots of things to consider here, so perhaps getting with Pat for a future version would be wise? If I make a second siphon to these exact specs, I feel like Pat gets dibs on it (and then mally next after that). I did consider Pat's check valve idea heavily in my design, after all.

Just to give a rough idea on materials cost for actual production of this behemoth. (after my "free-to-me" stuff runs out)

Here is the housing material, and I need 2ft per siphon.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#3334k11/=qkqqg9

Here is the cane material. 2.5ft needed.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01412600

Plastic bits. I'd have to calculate how many I could make with 4ft. I'd say at least 3 inches per. Teflon is more expensive, I only used it because it was on hand.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/63384036

I'd also need about 2" of this for the valve body and plunger(which I can reduce in mass pretty easily).

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/62319926

The above is likely expensive relative to what I can get through my company's material handler. I'd have to spec everything out and give her a list, though. I'll do that once I get hard dimensions from a prototype with mass appeal. Pat and mally seem to have a handle on this part better than I do, so I'll compare notes with their findings before I do anything.

Rick,

What a group of fantastic brewers (fabricators)you are. Take your time and get it right. If it isn't practical in the end. You all still moved us off center. Come to think about it? I a bit off-center most of the time. In fact. In a few more hours I will be horizontal as well as off-center!

Cheers!

Wow!
It is really great to see this take shape.
And after reading come of Pat's posts with regards to Valves.....
Scared me to death frankly
I am willing to invest in this.

OkieSeaPig,

Don't worry about valves. My mate Pat has a personal problem with them. If you want to add in a spout, valve or what every you want to call it, go ahead. They work great. Siphons on the other hand may harbor bacteria and can be hard to clean and too hot to handle? Everything works correctly if you clean them well and use them wisely. Use them both, just clean them properly.

Honestly, I was being rather "Cheeky" as some of our International friends on here would call it
Towards Pat.
I am an obsessive cleaner.......but not like that guy on the video you posted with the Kegs

Great work Rick . Short on time but will be back later. Just needed to post a quick warning...

BobBrews wrote:OkieSeaPig,

Don't worry about valves. My mate Pat has a personal problem with them. If you want to add in a spout, valve or what every you want to call it, go ahead. They work great. Siphons on the other hand may harbor bacteria and can be hard to clean and too hot to handle? Everything works correctly if you clean them well and use them wisely. Use them both, just clean them properly.

Do not trust this man. He is grooming you. He is well-known in two states for tapaphelia - sober and inebriated. He is a tapaphile with several nasty infections and has already publicly confessed to not smelling good.(See here).



For responsible information frome someone with a clean record see posts like this one.

Pat you guys are to Funny
I would think Tapaphila would be more like someone that had a fear of Draft Beer and would only drink out of Bottles
Actually what is really funny is I have had so much time on my hands waiting on my rotation back to the states I have read both of those posts in the past.
One of the really great things about this site, (and there are many), is that no one takes themselves to seriously here.
Some of the Beer and Brewing sites out on the internet seem to be nothing more than just a bunch of "Beer Snobs", and I could not stand being on them. And also some that seemed to want to do nothing more than put out bad information....on purpose.
Most mature adults, (I have a difficult time putting myself into that category), understand that there are many ways to skin a cat if you will.
The people on the net that make me laugh the most are the one's that have spent literally thousands of dollars on their Brew equipment only to turn around and spend 100's of hours on the internet justifying why they did so, when they should be brewing with it.
And I apologize for taking this thread way off of topic....This Newbie will be quite now

OkieSeaPig,

Very well put! Your post above gives me hope that all newbie's have the insight to see that as you put it so wisely "There are many ways to skin a cat". I have often stated that you can brew good beer by any method. Extract, 3V and BIAB. It depends on cleanliness and the skills of the brewer.

The amazing thing is that because we all have varying degrees of taste buds and olfactories (sense of smell?) What tastes good to you and is perfect for you. May be mediocre or insipid to me. What I love and cherish as a favorite beer may taste boring or down right crappy to you. Everything interacts with everything else and leaves us with no real scale to rely on. If we try to brew beer that is perfect for everyone, we in fact, please no one!

I brew BIAB with no-chill because I am cheap and lazy. If I still brewed three vessel? I probably would just brew four times a year and be done with it. For the last three years (that I kept records). I brew on average, 26 times a year. I have entered four local competitions and I have four medals hanging from a nail on the wall. I owe that all to the fellow brewers here and that I use a valve on my keggle!