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Post #1526 made 10 years ago
by thomasrolewis
Hey PP,

That's brilliant. I just want to make great beer. It's also fun to learn all this stuff for me.

I know I need to change the hops, I didn't put them in as I have to do the correction manually anyway. I'll just follow your math, it's pretty simple once it clicks.

I'm looking forward to doing this brew! Going to order a good thermometer as well. As I know that's important.

Thanks for the help and thanks for explaining everything! I will post some brew day stuff when it comes to it!

Thanks!

Post #1527 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
No probs fella ;).

On the hops, don't forget to do the AA% adjustment as well.

As for thermometers, I'd probably, initially, but three cheap alcohol thermometers from different sources rather than just one thermometer that is advertised as being good.

Here's another linkfor you.

Btw, if you found a 'washing machine' post that made more sense that others, could you link it in your next correspondence?

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 27 Nov 2013, 20:49, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1528 made 10 years ago
by Trevor77
BIABacus PR1.3I - Cream Ale.xls
Hi Everyone,
This is my first try at using the BIABacus. I just tried converting a recipe from Northern Brewer to try it out. Let me know if I missed anything in the process. I'm used to using Beersmith but it was suggested I try this for BIAB.


BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3I RECIPE REPORT
BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.
(Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)
Northern Brewer Cream Ale

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Trevor
Style: Cream Ale
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.04
IBU's (Tinseth): 1.1
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.03
Colour: 11 EBC = 5.6 SRM
ABV%: 3.87

Efficiency into Boil (EIB): 88 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 75.5 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)

Total Water Needed (TWN): 18.2 L = 4.81 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 17.82 L = 4.71 G @ 1.026
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 11.02 L = 2.91 G @ 1.04
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 9.45 L = 2.5 G @ 1.04
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 8.75 L = 2.31 G @ 1.01 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

87.5% Pale 2 Row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 1480 grams = 3.26 pounds
9.4% Honey Malt (58.5 EBC = 29.7 SRM) 159 grams = 0.35 pounds
3.1% Belgian Biscuit Malt (63.9 EBC = 32.4 SRM) 52 grams = 0.12 pounds


The Hop Bill

1.1 IBU Cluster Pellets (7.5%AA) 0.6 grams = 0.021 ounces at 60 mins


Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F


Miscellaneous Ingredients


Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: n

Chilling Method: Chiller

Fermentation& Conditioning

Fermention: Wyeast 1056 for 14 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

Secondary Used: No
Crash-Chilled: No
Filtered: No


Condition for 14 days.


Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
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Last edited by Trevor77 on 29 Nov 2013, 01:25, edited 6 times in total.

Post #1529 made 10 years ago
by ontherivet
Got around to brewing the Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale clone (orig post 1501). My efficiency was in the dumper and therefore missed my OG and even undershot my VIF to add insult to injury. My EIK was 62.6% and EIF 49.8%!!

I knew things were off to a rough start when my GIK was low but wan't sure how to address. All of my numbers were kind of all over the place.

I guess my question is, when it looks like efficiency is coming in low what's the best course of action to correct?

I've attached my file in the event there are any tells in the data.

Thanks,
Don
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Post #1530 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Trevor77: I'll look at your post tomorrow unless someone beats me to it as it will take some time.

ontherivet: No tells in the data sorry but the post I just wrote here also applies directly to you. How's that for good timing?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 Nov 2013, 21:40, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1532 made 10 years ago
by ontherivet
PistolPatch wrote:Trevor77: I'll look at your post tomorrow unless someone beats me to it as it will take some time.

ontherivet: No tells in the data sorry but the post I just wrote here also applies directly to you. How's that for good timing?
Great stuff, thanks PP. I definitely don't want to sweat the small stuff and frankly it's all small stuff in the grand scheme of things...

Anyway, I had a few BIABacus questions following on from my first application of the model. I can drop these elsewhere if that's more appropriate.

- Curious why VIF is not a calculated field. Should it not be just EOBV-A minus KFL?
- I don't quite understand in section O what the use of the "Actual" field is, since it looks like OG is coming from EOBG?
- And a simple question that I'm sure has been answered numerous times, but how do we handle an extended hop bill beyond 8 additions?

Thanks as always.

- Don
Last edited by ontherivet on 30 Nov 2013, 02:59, edited 6 times in total.

Post #1533 made 10 years ago
by Dilvish
Hi all,
I'm new to AG brewing and about to embark on my first BIAB attempt - a wee heavy scotch ale clone. The grain bill is ridiculous at 30+ pounds. I've attached the Biabacus file and would appreciate any input. FYI, I'm guessing about the EOBV-A, as the recipe simply states an end volume of 5 gallons.



Brewer: Dilvish
Style: Scotch ale
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.105
IBU's (Tinseth): 16.7
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.16
Colour: 40.7 EBC = 20.6 SRM
ABV%: 10.16

Efficiency into Kettle (EIK): 66.2 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 56.7 %

Mash: 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 28 days at 16 C = 60.8 F

Total Water Needed (TWN): 43.57 L = 11.51 G
Volume into Kettle (VIK): 35.94 L = 9.49 G @ 1.082
End of Boil Volume - Ambient (EOBV-A): 26.83 L = 7.09 G @ 1.105
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 23 L = 6.08 G @ 1.105
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 21.3 L = 5.63 G @ 1.026 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info (needs link)

93.6% Great Western pale malt (4 EBC = 2 SRM) 13454 grams = 29.66 pounds
3.1% Belgian Special B malt (354.6 EBC = 180 SRM) 448 grams = 0.99 pounds
2.6% Belgian biscuit malt (45.3 EBC = 23 SRM) 376 grams = 0.83 pounds
0.6% Briess chocolate malt (689.5 EBC = 350 SRM) 90 grams = 0.2 pounds

13.3 IBU Nugget Pellets (13%AA) 17.7 grams = 0.625 ounces at 60 mins
3.5 IBU Mt Hood Pellets (6%AA) 16.5 grams = 0.583 ounces at 20 mins

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F

Mashout for for 1 mins at 78 C = 172.4 F

Hopsock Used: N

Chilling Method: Plate chiller (Employed 0 mins after boil end.)

Fermention: White Labs WLP002 English Ale for 28 days at 16 C = 60.8 F

Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: N
Filtered: N
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 7 days.
Consume within 6 months.
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Post #1534 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Trevor77 wrote:This is my first try at using the BIABacus. I just tried converting a recipe from Northern Brewer to try it out. Let me know if I missed anything in the process. I'm used to using Beersmith but it was suggested I try this for BIAB.
Okay Trev, The BIABacus works in a different way from BeerSmith and once you understand it, it is very fast and much less complex to use.

It looks like you have worked out pretty well how it works so good on you ;). Most of the file looks spot on. Here's a couple of notes...

Ratios

On the left hand side of Section C, you could have just type in 7, 0.75 and 0.25 and your percentages would have automatically been calculated.

Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW)

In Section D, the aim of the top line, 'Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW)' is to work out the volume of ambient wort, the hops of the original recipe were exposed to. Beersmith and a lot of other programs have either had errors in their formulas in the past and/or do not display VAW in their recipe reports. It is a very important number. For example if you and I have the same equipment and we want the same Volume into Fermentor but I am careful with my hop and kettle trub management, I will start and end the boil with less water than you. This means, I will need less hops than you to get the same beer.

The Northern Brewer Recipe Reports, like nearly every REcipe Report on the planet fails to give us a VAW. In fact, ther pdf contains no volume figure. Sometimes if certain info is given, we can use the BIABacus as a 'recipe detective' to determine VAW. We have done this in the past with NB recipes and most have a VAW of 5.5 US gal (20.83 L). I have changed this in Section D of the attached file.

Hops

The second hop problem with Northern Brewer recipe reports is that they give no AA% of the hops used in the original recipe. This can create a massive problem. For example, Cluster hops can range from 5.0 to 8.5%. What if the hops used in the original recipe came from a year that produced 5% AA% but you were using a later crop that was 8.5%? Your beer will be 70% more bitter than the original recipe :argh:.

Anyway, all you can do with a NB recipe or any other recipe that fails to provide this basic info, is look up the average AA% of that particular variety. I have changed the 7.5% to 6.75% in your file.

Remember, on the right hand side of the BIABacus under AA% to type in the AA% of the hops you are using otherwise it will think you are using exactly the same AA% as on the left.

Finally, you do have a weight error in Section D. You have typed a 1.0 for the weight whereas this should be 28.35 (there being 28.35 grams in an ounce). In section D, you must type in the grams from the original recipe. This is why your IBU's were reading so low. I've fixed this in the attached file.

The Rest

Great that you picked up on the 60 versus 90 minute mash :salute:. I've changed your mash temp so it reads as exactly 150 F.

It's not that important but I'd go a bit lower on my fermentation temp with that yeast and style. You can get very clean beer at low temps (15-16 C / 59-61 F) with 1056.

Finally

The BIABacus defaults are set up in a way in which you will probably get a bit more beer than estimated so don't be surprised at this.

Hopefully the above explains a little why most recipes you come across on the net have major flaws in their ability to be copied properly. Most brewers don't ever really learn about this. So, for example, we would have many Norther Brewer cream ales being made in the world that might all taste great but could actually vary in flavour etc quite considerably.

Good stuff :peace:,
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2013, 16:44, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1535 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
ontherivet wrote:- Curious why VIF is not a calculated field. Should it not be just EOBV-A minus KFL?
- I don't quite understand in section O what the use of the "Actual" field is, since it looks like OG is coming from EOBG?
- And a simple question that I'm sure has been answered numerous times, but how do we handle an extended hop bill beyond 8 additions?
Good questins Don ;),

I'm going to use the terminology that we started to use in a later version than PR 1.3. Just download the cream ale recipe in the posts above as that is version PR 1.3I. (Basically EOBV-A becomes 'Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW)' - long story :whistle:.

VIF in Section L - What is happening here is the BIABacus gives you two ways of determining VAW that reflect the wide differences between brewer's individual set ups and circumstances. Here's how this section works.

Volume at Flame Out (VFO) gives you a pre-check to your VAW. This can be especially useful for a no-chiller as they might want to know that they have enough wort to fill their cube. It can also be an interesting pre-check for those who use a counter-flow or plate chiller. But for those who use an immersion chiller, it can be very difficult/impractical to measure VFO as the chiller itself causes a displacement in volume.

Now, the problem with measuring volumes at boiling point is that it is very hard to get accurate readings. For this reason, when the brewer fills in KFL and VIF in Sectin L, you will notice that this over-rides any number that already appeared in VAW as the cold measurements are likely to be more accurate.

So, this is the best we could come up with in spreadsheet form of allowing the most versatility and accuracy to suit all brewers.

Original Gravity in Section O - In most brews, OG in section O would be the same as your GAW (new abbreviation for EOBG). But, if you dilute or add DME etc, then your OG will not be the same as your GAW (EOBG).

Even if no dilutions or DME additions are done, this field also acts as an opportunity to double-check your gravity before pitching. Double checks can be useful especially if prior readings in the brew are not 'balancing'.

Extending the Hop Bill - We have no easy way of doing this in the spreadsheet form sorry but learning how to get around the problem only takes a little while. I have written the process down in this post under the heading, 'Now get ready to die of boredom...' :). Good excuse to grab a beer while you study that one.

Cheers Don,
Pat
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2013, 17:12, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1536 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Dilvish wrote:Hi all,
I'm new to AG brewing and about to embark on my first BIAB attempt - a wee heavy scotch ale clone. The grain bill is ridiculous at 30+ pounds. I've attached the Biabacus file and would appreciate any input. FYI, I'm guessing about the EOBV-A, as the recipe simply states an end volume of 5 gallons.
Welcome to the forum Dilvish :salute:,

Mate, that is a monster recipe :argh: :lol:.

My first bit of advice would be not to do it until you have several normal brews under your belt. Such a heavy beer is way out of my experience and I'm not sure how well the BIABacus auto-estimates work at that high end of the scale. If you do brew it, I think you would need to allow the whole day and take several gravity measurements during the mash. Weird stuff can go on in a very thick mash. I did one once and my gravity was lower in the thick mash then the thin mash. Figure that one out :scratch:. So, paradoxically, you might have to be prepared to use more water than estimated to actually get the sugars out. In your case, there is not enough room in the kettle to add more water so you would have to do a sparge. In either case, you might end up with too much volume going into the boil at too low a gravity which means you would have to extend your boil time to get things right.

Sounds like a nightmare. But, I am hoping you do it as we need more guinea pigs :lol:.

...

As for the EOBV-A, I just wrote a bit on why this figure is important to Treveor 77 two posts above. Read the bit that says 'Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW)'. In fact, read that whole post as it deals a little with recipe integrity.

If you do brew this recipe, I would be inclined to change the 22.72 L (6.0 US gal) in section D to 20.82 L (5.5 US gal) or lower as the IBU's is below the low end for that beer style. Even doing this will only raise it from from 16.7 IBU's to 18.3 which is only just in the guidelines (17 to 35 IBu's).

...

I'd like to see a link to your original recipe as it would be a shame to spend so much on ingredients and time to find out that you are actually trying to copy a recipe with low integrity. The recipe has very little in common with the Brewing Classic Styles strong scotch ale recipe which always worries me a bit. Even the mash temps are different (66 versus 68 C).

...

Without seeing the original recipe, I can't really write much on your file although from what you have written and from what I see in the file, I think you have probably go everything right :drink:.

If you want some more help on this, you could start a new thread called something like, "What is the highest gravity BIAB you have done?" That would be an interesting thread.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2013, 17:42, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1537 made 10 years ago
by Dilvish
Hi PistolPatch,

Thanks for the prompt reply. I have attached a copy of the recipe. It's a clone of the wee heavy scotch ale from Steelhead Brewing (California). I got the recipe from "Brew Your Own" magazine.

I can certainly change the volume in section D to 5 or 5.5 gallons. As you can see from the attached recipe, the final product should have 25 IBU which would put it more in line with the style.

In order to have more room in the kettle, I could drop the desired volume into fermentor from 23L to 20L. I plan to keg the beer (5 gallon Corny), and I was hoping to have some beer left over for a few bottles. As it stands I'll only have 2.3 cm headspace at mash volume, and that's cutting it pretty close to the kettle volume limits.

If after reviewing the recipe you think it isn't representative of the style, perhaps you can recommend an alternative wee heavy scotch ale recipe? :cool:

Thanks!
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Post #1538 made 10 years ago
by alanem
Trevor I would love to know how this pans out...seems like a very interesting recipe
Al


Trevor77 wrote:
BIABacus PR1.3I - Cream Ale.xls
Hi Everyone,
This is my first try at using the BIABacus. I just tried converting a recipe from Northern Brewer to try it out. Let me know if I missed anything in the process. I'm used to using Beersmith but it was suggested I try this for BIAB.


BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3I RECIPE REPORT
BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.
(Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)
Northern Brewer Cream Ale

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Trevor
Style: Cream Ale
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.04
IBU's (Tinseth): 1.1
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.03
Colour: 11 EBC = 5.6 SRM
ABV%: 3.87

Efficiency into Boil (EIB): 88 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 75.5 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)

Total Water Needed (TWN): 18.2 L = 4.81 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 17.82 L = 4.71 G @ 1.026
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 11.02 L = 2.91 G @ 1.04
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 9.45 L = 2.5 G @ 1.04
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 8.75 L = 2.31 G @ 1.01 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

87.5% Pale 2 Row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 1480 grams = 3.26 pounds
9.4% Honey Malt (58.5 EBC = 29.7 SRM) 159 grams = 0.35 pounds
3.1% Belgian Biscuit Malt (63.9 EBC = 32.4 SRM) 52 grams = 0.12 pounds


The Hop Bill

1.1 IBU Cluster Pellets (7.5%AA) 0.6 grams = 0.021 ounces at 60 mins


Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 60 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F


Miscellaneous Ingredients


Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: n

Chilling Method: Chiller

Fermentation& Conditioning

Fermention: Wyeast 1056 for 14 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F

Secondary Used: No
Crash-Chilled: No
Filtered: No


Condition for 14 days.



Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
Last edited by alanem on 01 Dec 2013, 06:50, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Wee Heavy

Post #1539 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Dilvish wrote:I have attached a copy of the recipe. It's a clone of the wee heavy scotch ale from Steelhead Brewing (California).
Okay Dilvish, this is interesting for me as I have no experience in very high gravity beers but always thought...

Extreme High Gravity Brews require Extreme Boil Lengths

Remember in my last post I talked about not having enough water in the mash to get the sugars out? Well the answer is in the .pdf you attached. The boil time is three hours!

Now that makes sense.

What I have never understood is how so many high gravity all-grain recipes get published at ridiculously low boil times.

Do I trust your Recipe?

I can't advise you on the quality of the recipe but after reading the .pdf, I am am in two minds. I like the fact that it says a three hour boil time but the mashing and sparging instructions are very vague. They say put in 26 L and you will get 42 L :roll:. Obviously I know what they mean but that is a bit annoying. Also a mash time of only 60 minutes makes me think it must be a very slow fly-sparge that is being done.

Anyway, I think it is probably a better recipe than most you will come across. (I still think you are crazy to brew it though for a first or even fifth brew!!!)

Adjusting the File

One little thing, you had mash temp at 66 instead of 67. I've fixed that.

The second thing is that the .pdf tells us that the VFO (old EOBV) is 19 L. This tranlslates to a VAW (old EOBV-A) of 18.27 L which brings the IBU's up to 20.8 Tinseth. (The original .pdf does not specify Tinseth, Rager, Garetz or laboratory measured so we can't rely too much on the 25 IBU's they have stated.) We are closer though to everything making sense.

Thirdly, I have played a game of twenty question with your file so as it matches very closely the original .pdf.

Your Job!

The BIABacus file I have attached below is very close to the original .pdf which was certainly sparged. You will now have to make a lot of decisions.

For example, you'll need to play around with all the fields in Section Section W and/or the VIF field in Section B to find what is right for you. With every adjustment you make, keep an eye on "What you will use..." in Section C.

Lots of juggling there for you to play with. Make sure you save my file separately before the juggle so as you have a base to refer back to.

:peace:
PP
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Post #1540 made 10 years ago
by Dilvish
Thanks PistolPatch for your insightful advice.

I have a few questions...

How did you derive VAW? I know EOBV is 19 L, but how did you determine A = 0.73 L so as to arrive at VAW of 18.27 L?

You entered a boil time of 270 min in section B. Do you really think it will take that long to boil down to VIF?

Do you recommend a 90 min mash? If so, this will be an all-day project.

When mashing such a large quantity of grain, how often should I stir, e.g., once every 15 minutes?

I'll plug some numbers in sections W and B and see if I can come up with reasonable numbers in section C.

Thanks again.
Dilvish
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Post #1541 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
No problems Dilvish ;),

Re the 19.0 to 18.27 L, if you click on the second sheet of the BIABacus, you'll see in the right hand column, third blcok down, a 'Water/Wort Expansion and Contraction' area. I just typed 19.0 on the third line down and this gave me 18.27 'at ambient'.

As for the three hour boil, yep, you will need to do it. There is a minimum amount of water you need in any mash to get the sugar out of the grain. For example, adding say 2.5 litres of water to 5 kg of grain, actually won't give you any sugar because all that amount of water will do is get absorbed. Let's say we add another 2.5 L. This does not mean that the surplus water that is not absorbed by the grain holds all the sugar from the grain. You will need to do the three hour boil to run this brew practically.

This is a very advanced brew and the three hour boil time is just one of many reasons I really don't think you should be doing it as your first BIAB.

Unless you are happy to waste a lot of sugars from your grain bill, the 90 minute mash is pretty much mandatory with full-volume BIAB. Remeber, in pure BIAB, you are mashing and passively sparging at the same time. Cramming the mash/sparge into 60 minutes will give a lot different result to one done over 90 minutes.

We've collected some figures here on BIABrewer that show a significant gain of a 90 minute versus a 60 minute mash. Remember also, that in a traditional brew, at a minimum they will 60 minute mash and then they will spend at least another 30 minutes buggering around with sparging. This means that the grain is exposed to hot water for at least 90 minutes. Time is very important when it comes to an efficient brewery. There is no way around this. Go 90 minutes and then a mash-out if you can.

I avoid using the word stirring as it implies stirring the mash round and round which is cumbersome and doesn't really do much. Do a search for "potato masher" and you should find some posts with pics. Get one of those and then you can use an up and down motion to really agitate your mash.

My advice to anyone starting out is to stir regularly, not so much because you need to, but because it forces you to pay attention to what is happening in your mash, temperature-wise. To check temperature,you need to agitate the mash first. Check it every ten minutes for the first half hour when starting out on this or any other brew and then, depending on your ambient temperature and kettle set-up, you should only need to check it a few more times on a 90 minute mash.

Good luck on the juggle or better still on deciding on a new recipe :lol:,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Dec 2013, 19:51, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1542 made 10 years ago
by Trevor77
I'll be sure to post the results. Right now I just need to find some free time. The goal is to have it brewed in the next week or two
alanem wrote:Trevor I would love to know how this pans out...seems like a very interesting recipe
Al

Last edited by Trevor77 on 03 Dec 2013, 11:12, edited 9 times in total.

Post #1543 made 10 years ago
by Trevor77
Hey PP, thanks for all the info! BIABacus is a lot easier to use than Beersmith once you get the hang of everything. I've tried converting a few other recipes and I'm pretty confident in how the thing works.

I'll let you know how the brewing goes once I get this one finished

Post #1544 made 10 years ago
by Dilvish
Hi PP,
Thanks again for the detailed answer. I just ordered a potato masher, and I'm looking forward to attempting this monster gravity scotch ale. Yes, of course you're right - I should get 5+ BIAB brews under my belt before attempting such a recipe - but I'm sure I'll end up with something "drinkable" and gain some valuable insight in the process.
I'll likely give it a shot next week and report back to the forum (once I've gotten through the long brew day) to let you know how it goes.
Cheers!
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Post #1545 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Dilvish and Trevor: Looking forward to hearing how it all goes ;).

Dilvish: I had some time today to do a bit of reading on high gravity brews and also to refresh my memory on an important BIABacus warning.

Firstly the BIABacus warning. For some reason that I can't remember now, a rare but important warning isn't working in PR 1.3 but works in many prior versions and certainly works in PR 1.3I... This warning pops up if your kettle efficiency is too low but in PR1.4, I will make it so that the warning works off the liquor to grain ratio as this will be much more practical/versatile.

Basically, you don't want to see your Liquor to Grain Ratio dropping below 1.25 qt/lb or 2.61 L/kg.

Secondly, if you want to brew high gravity all-grain beers, there seems to be only two ways to get around the 1.25 qt/limit above. The first is the extended boil time we have looked at. From what I have read you should not exceed three hours. The second way, appropriate in some but not all high gravity beers, is to add candi sugar.

Main thing for you is to keep your eye on that 1.25 limit.

Also, try and plan things so that you take a few measurements during the mash and brew as this would be of big interest.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Dec 2013, 20:00, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #1546 made 10 years ago
by Dilvish
Hello PistolPatch,

I've purchased all of the grain, hops and yeast for this recipe. I'm waiting for a break in the weather so I can brew outside, but I expect it will be later this week.

The current liquor to grain ratio (listed in field W) is 1.63 qt/lb, so I should be good to go with respect to that issue, and I don't plan to exceed a three hour boil.

I'm curious - what are the detrimental effects associated with a boil greater than three hours? Increased tannins?

Finally, how much do you anticipate the bag will weigh after the 90 minute mash? The dry grains weigh 28.61 pounds, so I imagine the weight could exceed 100 lbs! I recently purchased a one-ton capacity engine motor hoist cherry picker crane lift, so I shouldn't have any problems lifting the bag so long as it doesn't tear apart from the weight of the wet grains.

I'll be taking several refractometer readings during the mash and brew, and I'll report back with my findings.

Dilvish
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Post #1547 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Last post of the day for me Dilvish. Thought I'd get here sooner sorry but I seem to have an incredible knack for, "I'll just write a quick note here," and end up writing an essay. I still don't know how that happens. I'd love to be able to blame it on the beer but I seem to be able to waffle as well sober as I can drunk :lol:.

Anyway...

I don't know the answer on why not to exceed a three hour boil sorry. It's a good question though. My best guess is that after three hours, especially on a high gravity brew, you would start caramelising stuff. On a low gravity brew I bet you could boil for much longer but, of course, there is no point.

...

As for how much your bag will weigh, I'd answer this with another question, the question being, "At what point?"

The mash time won't affect any of this so the 90 minute mash won't make it any heavier than a 60 minute mash. If you tried to grab the bag and immediately yank it out of the kettle, it would weigh God knows what :argh:. But, that is not going to happen.

So, the main factors we are looking at here are...

1. Crush Fineness - Don't crush fine. Writing this post just made me do another one here.

2. Bag Porosity - Read the post above that one I just linked. The finer your bag, the longer it will take to drain.

3. Time - If we had to make an ideal, it would be great if you could raise your bag after mash-out and then have it suspended and slowly drain into your kettle while the sweet liquor approaches boiling point.

In your heavy brew, definitely take some time to pre-plan how to slowly rasie your bag.

Really looking forward to hearing how this one goes Dilvish ;)

:salute:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 10 Dec 2013, 21:25, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #1548 made 10 years ago
by smyrnaquince
Strictly speaking, I think you would have increased Maillard reactions, not caramelization. Depending on the style of beer, this might be desirable.

Could you keep good notes and let us know how this goes with quantities and qualities? Thanks!

Post #1549 made 10 years ago
by Jenno
Hi Guys,

I am planning to do my second AG batch, a Maxi BIAB Helles. This is first time I have attempted to use the BIABacus and I think I have it sussed but would appreciate if someone could take a look and let me know if it is OK or if what I am planning is not possible

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Jenno
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Recipe help - The Dark Side of Beer

Post #1550 made 10 years ago
by Recharge
I was hoping for some comments on the following recipe.
My objective are:
-To use up old grain and hops, so i don't want to buy any to add.
-To make a malt driven semi sweet dark beer/stout
Bear in mind i don't care to much for keeping to a particular style i also have styrian golding hops i could use.

Thanks in advance
Richard


[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3 RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]The Dark Side of Beer[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Richard
Style:
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.06
IBU's (Tinseth): 30
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.5
Colour: 52.1 EBC = 26.4 SRM
ABV%: 5.8

Efficiency into Kettle (EIK): 78.5 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 70.7 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 68 C = 154.4 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 18 C = 64.4 F

Volumes & Gravities

Total Water Needed (TWN): 35.95 L = 9.5 G
Volume into Kettle (VIK): 33.09 L = 8.74 G @ 1.048
End of Boil Volume - Ambient (EOBV-A): 25.53 L = 6.74 G @ 1.06
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 23 L = 6.08 G @ 1.06
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 21.3 L = 5.63 G @ 1.015 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

77.9% Marris Otter (3 EBC = 1.5 SRM) 5136 grams = 11.32 pounds
6% Choc (500 EBC = 253.8 SRM) 396 grams = 0.87 pounds
4.7% CaraAroma (350 EBC = 177.7 SRM) 311 grams = 0.69 pounds
3.4% CaraRed (50 EBC = 25.4 SRM) 224 grams = 0.49 pounds
0.7% Roast (1350 EBC = 685.3 SRM) 48 grams = 0.1 pounds
7.2% Quick oats (1 EBC = 0.5 SRM) 475 grams = 1.05 pounds

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

30 IBU Fuggles Pellets (4.4%AA) 75.1 grams = 2.647 ounces at 60 mins

Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 90 mins at 68 C = 154.4 F

Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: y

Chilling Method: No Chill

Fermentation& Conditioning

Fermention: us-05 for 14 days at 18 C = 64.4 F

Secondary Used: No
Crash-Chilled: Yes
Filtered: No
Req. Volumes of CO2: 1.5
Serving Temp: 8 C = 46.4 F
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Last edited by Recharge on 12 Dec 2013, 09:30, edited 6 times in total.
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