Well last Sunday I finally made the leap to all grain and gave the BIAB rig I have been collecting bits and pieces for over the past couple of months a test run. I will mention where I got my gear from but I have no affiliation with these stores, just a customer.
When putting the rig together I wanted to make sure it had the capacity to double batches. I have a young son and another one in the oven so the capacity to knock out twice as much beer in roughly the same amount of time was compelling.
As a pot I have a 70L from Craftbrewer. It came pre drilled and I also bought the 3 piece ball valve connected with a weldless bulkhead and some silicon hose for transferring. I also bought their bag because I can't sew.
For a burner I got a Mammut heavy duty from Cellar plus in Melbourne with a high pressure adjustable reg. As it turns out this is probably overkill but I wanted to get something that would do double batches in reasonable time and I didn't want to buy something I would need to replace in the near future.
All up it probably set me back about the price of 8 cartons of craft beer so I should be able to make that back fairly quickly.
For my first brew I didn't really want to worry too much about a recipe or hitting precise target temperatures so I decided to do a variation of Zymeck's AMMO SMaSH.
This was 5kg of Maris Otter Ale and 45g of Amarillo (15g as a first wort hop and 30g at 15 minutes)
I started with 32 litres of water and cranked up the burner while I went to have some lunch. By the time I wandered back down about 20 minutes later I had overshot my target and the water was over 75 degrees C. I turned off the burner and waited until it had dropped to about 68 degrees. I didn't really have a target but was aiming for mid 60's. I mashed for 60 minutes and over that time the temp dropped to 66 degrees. I was planning on doing a mash out but couldn't figure out how to keep the bag off the bottom of the pot so pulled the bag and sat it in a bucket to drain adding all the runnings back into the boil. Took a sample and it came in a 1040. Forgot to take a measuement of volume at this point.
After this I boiled for an hour and had no trouble maintaining a good rolling boil and timing the hop additions. I was surprised by the amount of evapouration. Post boil I ended up with 22-23 litres at 1054. After flame out I got a decent whirlpool going and got 18L of wort into a cube which is waiting for the fermeneting fridge to be freed up to get a go. I have a Wyeast 1056 for this which I think should be ok.
Things I would do differently:
Have a clear idea of what measurments I needed to take and when.
Have a better idea of mash temp and impact on final product.
I need to rig up a pick up tube of some description as I lost a lot to trub.
Be ready with some other beer related activities (bottling etc) to use the time more effectively.
All in all though I found it a very relaxed process, not too intimidating and very manageable and my goodness the wort tasted fantastic out of the kettle!
Any feedback or tips about process, recipe or particularly tips from anyone who has put together a pick up tube for a similar pot would be greatly appreciated!
Post #2 made 12 years ago
Well done contrarian - Sounds like you had a good time too, which is what you want from a hobby!
If you get a chance have a look at the BIABacus so that you can either copy a recipe or design your own for next time.
If you get a chance have a look at the BIABacus so that you can either copy a recipe or design your own for next time.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
First AG BIAB SMASH
Post #3 made 12 years ago
Thanks mally, I always thought the real enjoyment would be in drinking the beer but the brewing process is enjoyable as well which is great! The final insult was having to drink Carlton draught while I was doing it!
Have looked at biabacus and have retrospectively put the info in but it's tricky when you didn't have a target gravity etc. I'll probably do a few more smash recipes to get a better feel of the boil off etc before trying some more complex recipes.
If you're devising a SMASH recipe, how do you calculate you're desired OG?
Have looked at biabacus and have retrospectively put the info in but it's tricky when you didn't have a target gravity etc. I'll probably do a few more smash recipes to get a better feel of the boil off etc before trying some more complex recipes.
If you're devising a SMASH recipe, how do you calculate you're desired OG?
Post #4 made 12 years ago
If you are using the BIABacus, just type your desired OG in section C "this recipe requires an OG of".
If you are like me and (for example) don't like to weigh out 4829.86g of malt, you will end up playing the higher or lower game on that o.g value until it reaches 5Kg! Which may actually end up you needing 4 or 5 decimal places on your OG!
It is really worth devoting some time to the BIABacus to understand how it can help you, because once you do, you will wonder how you coped without it.
If you are like me and (for example) don't like to weigh out 4829.86g of malt, you will end up playing the higher or lower game on that o.g value until it reaches 5Kg! Which may actually end up you needing 4 or 5 decimal places on your OG!
It is really worth devoting some time to the BIABacus to understand how it can help you, because once you do, you will wonder how you coped without it.
Last edited by mally on 04 Jul 2013, 20:05, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #5 made 12 years ago
[EDIT: Got caught on phone so I hope that the below isn't too superfluous to Mally's post 
]
Welcome to the forum Contrarian. Just read your first post here - very nice. That smash recipe of MO and amarillo is going to taste great I reckon
.
So congratulations on your first brew
.
I'm also impressed that you put your numbers into the BIABacus. Most new brewers would immediately jump into more mainstream programs as at first glance, they will look easier and more informative. This is far from the truth
.
When designing a recipe, you need to make a decision as to what the best OG for the recipe should be. So, you do some reading or consult a book like 'Brewing Classic Styles' and then you say to yourself, "Okay I want an OG of 1.050 for this beer." In the BIABacus, you would simply type that into the first field of Section C as in the pic below. For a smash recipe, you would also then just type in the grain name and then 100 (also in the pic below) because you are using 100% of that grain. On the right of the above pic under, "What you will use..." you will see a weight. This weight will vary depending on your equipment and many other things that are calculated and considered automatically in the BIABacus.
...
Almost all other programs ask you to approach things from a different angle. They ask you to put in weights and then continually adjust them until the OG in the program reads what you want. Usually but not always, there is a scaling feature that can help you with this but unfortunately, such a feature can be easily misused and give you a wrong reading in other areas of the recipe - tricky stuff
.
...
Anyway, there is bugger all official help here atm for the BIABacus so make sure you ask questions when you are
.
PP
] Welcome to the forum Contrarian. Just read your first post here - very nice. That smash recipe of MO and amarillo is going to taste great I reckon
.So congratulations on your first brew
.I'm also impressed that you put your numbers into the BIABacus. Most new brewers would immediately jump into more mainstream programs as at first glance, they will look easier and more informative. This is far from the truth
.I'm not sure if I am reading your question right or even if it relates to the BIABacus so correct me if the following isn't answering your question...If you're devising a SMASH recipe, how do you calculate you're desired OG?
When designing a recipe, you need to make a decision as to what the best OG for the recipe should be. So, you do some reading or consult a book like 'Brewing Classic Styles' and then you say to yourself, "Okay I want an OG of 1.050 for this beer." In the BIABacus, you would simply type that into the first field of Section C as in the pic below. For a smash recipe, you would also then just type in the grain name and then 100 (also in the pic below) because you are using 100% of that grain. On the right of the above pic under, "What you will use..." you will see a weight. This weight will vary depending on your equipment and many other things that are calculated and considered automatically in the BIABacus.
...
Almost all other programs ask you to approach things from a different angle. They ask you to put in weights and then continually adjust them until the OG in the program reads what you want. Usually but not always, there is a scaling feature that can help you with this but unfortunately, such a feature can be easily misused and give you a wrong reading in other areas of the recipe - tricky stuff
....
Anyway, there is bugger all official help here atm for the BIABacus so make sure you ask questions when you are
. PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Jul 2013, 20:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #6 made 12 years ago
Thanks PP!
That does answer my question regarding biabacus. When I was putting the recipe together rather than aiming for a specific gravity I based it on the fact that a lot of recipes seemed to have a grain bill of around 5kg for a 23 L batch. In the interests of not sweating the details it seemed like a decent starting point.
Another question about biabacus. Is there a database somewhere of EBC values for grain and AA% for hops. I also had a crack using ianh's spreadsheet and noticed he had drop down menus for these. I know they would be estimates, especially for the hops based on age, storage etc but it was a good place to start.
I'm not sure what the FG would have been if I had hit my target of volume but at a wild guess somewhere between 1045 and 1050 but I have no idea how to calculate this or whether I could dilute into the fermenter to get closer to the target volume.
I would also like to put together a pick up tube as I lost a decent amount to trub. Even though I had a decent cone after the whirlpool the fact that there was a 1/2 inch tube feeding wort from the centre of meant it started breaking up while there was still plenty of the good stuff left. From what I've read people seem to use a compression fitting and then attach copper pipe but I can't for the life of me figure out how. You can buy the full set up but they seem very expensive for what they are. If anyone has an example of how they've put one together it would be awesome.
That does answer my question regarding biabacus. When I was putting the recipe together rather than aiming for a specific gravity I based it on the fact that a lot of recipes seemed to have a grain bill of around 5kg for a 23 L batch. In the interests of not sweating the details it seemed like a decent starting point.
Another question about biabacus. Is there a database somewhere of EBC values for grain and AA% for hops. I also had a crack using ianh's spreadsheet and noticed he had drop down menus for these. I know they would be estimates, especially for the hops based on age, storage etc but it was a good place to start.
I'm not sure what the FG would have been if I had hit my target of volume but at a wild guess somewhere between 1045 and 1050 but I have no idea how to calculate this or whether I could dilute into the fermenter to get closer to the target volume.
I would also like to put together a pick up tube as I lost a decent amount to trub. Even though I had a decent cone after the whirlpool the fact that there was a 1/2 inch tube feeding wort from the centre of meant it started breaking up while there was still plenty of the good stuff left. From what I've read people seem to use a compression fitting and then attach copper pipe but I can't for the life of me figure out how. You can buy the full set up but they seem very expensive for what they are. If anyone has an example of how they've put one together it would be awesome.
Post #7 made 12 years ago
Good stuff Contrarian,
I won't answer your questions above now as, knowing me, I'll end up writing a lot more than I intend to and it has been a very busy week. In the meantime, maybe some others can get some of your questions answered faster than me. Give me a day or two and I'll get back to you with anything that hasn't already been answered.
Two fast things...
A search for trub management may or may not come up with some good posts???
BIABrewer post re excellent hop site.
PP
I won't answer your questions above now as, knowing me, I'll end up writing a lot more than I intend to and it has been a very busy week. In the meantime, maybe some others can get some of your questions answered faster than me
. Give me a day or two and I'll get back to you with anything that hasn't already been answered.Two fast things...
A search for trub management may or may not come up with some good posts???
BIABrewer post re excellent hop site.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Jul 2013, 19:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #8 made 12 years ago
I don't know of one Contrarian, however, I always use the values from the supplier, as I just think this will be more accurate than a generic database.Contrarian wrote: Is there a database somewhere of EBC values for grain and AA% for hops
Last edited by mally on 06 Jul 2013, 16:51, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
First AG BIAB SMASH
Post #9 made 12 years ago
That's a good point about getting info from the supplier, currently my supplier is a mate who has good stocks that he is happy to share until I can get in on a bulk buy. Hard to believe how cheap this caper can be compared to buying beer when grain is under $2 a kilo!
Have a had a bit of a look around about a pick up tube. It seems a lot of people don't bother and wear the trub loss or use some sort of stepped connection with some copper pipe. My brother in law is handy like that so I might try to rope him in, only problem is he doesn't drink so usual compensation methods are out the window!
As my wife and son were away last night I decided it was a good chance to brew so I knocked out a double batch of JW ale and cascade. Lesson learned regarding double batches and I will now be investing in a pulley system! It all worked out ok in the end but I was having visions of the bag slipping and splashing into 50 odd litres of hot stickiness which wouldn't have been much fun!
Did a mash out this time but was a bit cautious about cranking the burner with the bag still in so it was a fairly slow ramp. Also ended up a bit below my target temp, presumably because the grain was colder than what I plugged into the program.
Now I either need to buy some more cubes or wait until the 2 batches I have fermenting are done before brewing again! Might try something a bit more complicated next time. Bought some trolley car red ale a few weeks back that was a delicious, malty, winter beer that might be worth a shot, either that or a chocolate stout... Slippery slope indeed!
Have a had a bit of a look around about a pick up tube. It seems a lot of people don't bother and wear the trub loss or use some sort of stepped connection with some copper pipe. My brother in law is handy like that so I might try to rope him in, only problem is he doesn't drink so usual compensation methods are out the window!
As my wife and son were away last night I decided it was a good chance to brew so I knocked out a double batch of JW ale and cascade. Lesson learned regarding double batches and I will now be investing in a pulley system! It all worked out ok in the end but I was having visions of the bag slipping and splashing into 50 odd litres of hot stickiness which wouldn't have been much fun!
Did a mash out this time but was a bit cautious about cranking the burner with the bag still in so it was a fairly slow ramp. Also ended up a bit below my target temp, presumably because the grain was colder than what I plugged into the program.
Now I either need to buy some more cubes or wait until the 2 batches I have fermenting are done before brewing again! Might try something a bit more complicated next time. Bought some trolley car red ale a few weeks back that was a delicious, malty, winter beer that might be worth a shot, either that or a chocolate stout... Slippery slope indeed!
Post #10 made 12 years ago
Firstly Contrarian, my apologies. I forgot to put in the link in my last post to the BIABrewer hop guide thread. Have fixed it now. The first link in that BIABrewer thread would take you to this excellent hop site.
As for a grain (and hop) guide, we have put a lot of work into these behind the scenes but have put it to one side for many reasons. One is because it's a very messy area with a lot of inconsistencies. Grain-wwise however, there might be a few sources in this thread though to get you going. The one in ianh's spreadsheet will definitely serve you really well.
In the BIABacus, we are also trying to avoid drop-down lists and macros for many reasons. Firstly they don't work cross-platform. Secondly, drop-down lists in spreadsheets are very limiting in many ways. Do you put the thousands of grain names and types into the list or just 40 generic ones? How do you name them and sort them when there are contradicitions in classification internationally? Usually it is quicker to just type in the grain you want than try and match it to a pre-prepared list. Same goes for hops.
Just going to move onto some other points/questions you have asked...
Feel free to start a whole new thread on trub management. It never hurts to bring up a topic like that. Don't forget to use your BIAB bag as a trub management tool. If it is of the right porosity (30-40 threads per cm) you can use that as a hop sock and that will save you a lot of trub problems.
If you do something like a pick-up tube, whatever you do, makes sure that your kettle tap and anything attached to it is easy to clean. One of the worst things I did was put taps on my kettle. Mine create about fifty times more work than they save. Anyway, trub management wise, the combination of a hop-sock and what you see pictured and described in this post works well.
Re calculating your gravities, dilutions etc, the BIABacus provides various options of where you can take some measurements during your brew. It can also calculate dilutions for you. Best thing is to plan your recipe in advance and let us help you put it into a BIABacus file using this thread. That makes questions on numbers much easier to explain and understand as well.
Just reading your last post. Good on you on the double batch. I used to do them by hand as well for ages because I couldn't put a pulley in where I was. The pulley system can also be used to let your hop sock float lazilly around the boil.
The double batches will take a lot longer than single ones mainly due to the extra time heating all that extra water to mash temp and then to mash out and then to boiling.
Slippery slope alright. Good on you,
PP
As for a grain (and hop) guide, we have put a lot of work into these behind the scenes but have put it to one side for many reasons. One is because it's a very messy area with a lot of inconsistencies. Grain-wwise however, there might be a few sources in this thread though to get you going. The one in ianh's spreadsheet will definitely serve you really well.
In the BIABacus, we are also trying to avoid drop-down lists and macros for many reasons. Firstly they don't work cross-platform. Secondly, drop-down lists in spreadsheets are very limiting in many ways. Do you put the thousands of grain names and types into the list or just 40 generic ones? How do you name them and sort them when there are contradicitions in classification internationally? Usually it is quicker to just type in the grain you want than try and match it to a pre-prepared list. Same goes for hops.
Just going to move onto some other points/questions you have asked...
Feel free to start a whole new thread on trub management. It never hurts to bring up a topic like that. Don't forget to use your BIAB bag as a trub management tool. If it is of the right porosity (30-40 threads per cm) you can use that as a hop sock and that will save you a lot of trub problems.
If you do something like a pick-up tube, whatever you do, makes sure that your kettle tap and anything attached to it is easy to clean. One of the worst things I did was put taps on my kettle. Mine create about fifty times more work than they save. Anyway, trub management wise, the combination of a hop-sock and what you see pictured and described in this post works well.
Re calculating your gravities, dilutions etc, the BIABacus provides various options of where you can take some measurements during your brew. It can also calculate dilutions for you. Best thing is to plan your recipe in advance and let us help you put it into a BIABacus file using this thread. That makes questions on numbers much easier to explain and understand as well.
Just reading your last post. Good on you on the double batch. I used to do them by hand as well for ages because I couldn't put a pulley in where I was. The pulley system can also be used to let your hop sock float lazilly around the boil.
The double batches will take a lot longer than single ones mainly due to the extra time heating all that extra water to mash temp and then to mash out and then to boiling.
Slippery slope alright. Good on you
,PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 07 Jul 2013, 17:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #11 made 12 years ago
Thanks for the tips PP, that hop site is fantastic! I'm sure a few hours will go into reading up on different varieties as I get around to using them!
I'm sure I'll get the hang of using the software with a bit more practice and it is great to know there is plenty of support available. It seems like it will be really helpful when I start looking at more to style recipes. It has already been a big help in working out my gear.
The double batch did take a bit longer in heating times but my burner really cranks so getting to strike temp didn't take too long but getting to mash out was slower as I was fairly conservative in how hard I ran the burner for the sake of the bag. I'm sure in time I'll get better at knowing what works.
It is also interesting that you weren't happy with the change to taps. I'm sure it's in a thread somewhere but what kind of taps do you have an what was the problem? Presumably cleaning was diddly and time consuming? How often should taps be cleaned?
Thanks for your quick responses, you are very generous with your time in supporting new brewers and it is greatly appreciated!
I'm sure I'll get the hang of using the software with a bit more practice and it is great to know there is plenty of support available. It seems like it will be really helpful when I start looking at more to style recipes. It has already been a big help in working out my gear.
The double batch did take a bit longer in heating times but my burner really cranks so getting to strike temp didn't take too long but getting to mash out was slower as I was fairly conservative in how hard I ran the burner for the sake of the bag. I'm sure in time I'll get better at knowing what works.
It is also interesting that you weren't happy with the change to taps. I'm sure it's in a thread somewhere but what kind of taps do you have an what was the problem? Presumably cleaning was diddly and time consuming? How often should taps be cleaned?
Thanks for your quick responses, you are very generous with your time in supporting new brewers and it is greatly appreciated!
Post #12 made 12 years ago
Hey Contrarian, great write up and sounds like you're off to a flying start. I can't praise the BIABacus enough and all of the work that PP and others have put into making it what it is. You do need to put in a bit of reading and tinkering time but it's all worth it.
You might be interested in this hop summary chart: http://www.onebeer.net/hopschart.html
I'm a fellow Melbournian so maybe we could arrange a case swap
Keep up posted on your progress!
Lee
You might be interested in this hop summary chart: http://www.onebeer.net/hopschart.html
I'm a fellow Melbournian so maybe we could arrange a case swap
Keep up posted on your progress!
Lee
Post #13 made 12 years ago
BrewBagMan, hope you saw our birthday wishes for you in the birthday thread . And, how good is it that you and Contrarian are both in Melbourne! Heaps of really nice brewers and brewing wisdom in Melbourne 
.
Nice to see the BIABacus has been of some value. Sorry there is no good written help yet. Give us another couple of years. Is there anyone in Melbourne who can turn it into code? That would save a lot of help posts .
As for the kettle tap thing Contrarian, I will have written several rants on this
. If you click on Advanced Search and type in "Dead Space" and look for posts by me, there will be 8 returns including this post. The first six of those look as though they might describe the problem/s.
PP
. And, how good is it that you and Contrarian are both in Melbourne! Heaps of really nice brewers and brewing wisdom in Melbourne .Nice to see the BIABacus has been of some value. Sorry there is no good written help yet. Give us another couple of years
. Is there anyone in Melbourne who can turn it into code? That would save a lot of help posts .As for the kettle tap thing Contrarian, I will have written several rants on this
. If you click on Advanced Search and type in "Dead Space" and look for posts by me, there will be 8 returns including this post. The first six of those look as though they might describe the problem/s. PP
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
BrewBagMan,
Taps on kettles are great! Never had a problem with one yet! Never cleaned one because I run starsan thru them after cleaning. I have had problems with a old fart from Perth!
Go to bed Pat! 
You will be sorry tomorrow! 
Taps on kettles are great! Never had a problem with one yet! Never cleaned one because I run starsan thru them after cleaning. I have had problems with a old fart from Perth!
Go to bed Pat! You will be sorry tomorrow! tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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First AG BIAB SMASH
Post #15 made 12 years ago
Hi Lee, thanks for the link. It is amazing how much there is to learn about brewing and how much great info is available. I can't wait to be drinking this beer, purely as a method of refining the process.
I'm not in Melbourne though, I'm on the south coast of NSW. If you're ever heading up this way would be very happy to swap some beers!
Will track down those posts on taps PP, clearly there is not a unanimous perspective on this though so will keep an open mind regarding my tap for the time being. In my case it seemed like a sensible decision as the pot came pre drilled!
I'm not in Melbourne though, I'm on the south coast of NSW. If you're ever heading up this way would be very happy to swap some beers!
Will track down those posts on taps PP, clearly there is not a unanimous perspective on this though so will keep an open mind regarding my tap for the time being. In my case it seemed like a sensible decision as the pot came pre drilled!
Post #16 made 12 years ago
This is one of the very few places you will be made aware of the potential for kettle taps to be a serious source of infection. And that is the perspective to take - one of awareness.Contrarian wrote:Will track down those posts on taps PP, clearly there is not a unanimous perspective on this...
Some set-ups will be more likely to cause problems than others as the tap will be hit by less heat. Also, I run boiling water through and then Starsan (not sure if Bob does the boiling water as well) opening and closing the tap many times and this seems to work okay so far*.
Being aware means that you should do the nostril test (see end of that post) and at least occasionally pull your tap apart completely.
PP
*PITA labour and time-wise though and that's one of the several reasons why at the end of the day, a syphon often beats a tap.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Jul 2013, 19:59, edited 2 times in total.
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