Mally's Sour Mash Experiment

After getting inspiration from Todd's sour experiment, and input from Shibolet (see thread here). I decided to try my own sour experiment. For those that can continue with the proceeding verbosity, congratulations!

The idea of using spent grains appealed to me (AKA Parti-Gyle) in a berliner weisse style low gravity sour beer, and rather than buy (or waste money) on specific ingredients, I thought I would utilise what I had available.

On a slight tangent, I am carrying out another experiment to see the difference between Vienna & Munich malt beers, so have set out to brew same size batches, same grain bill, hops etc. and just substituting the base malts.
So having previously brewed the Vienna (now fermenting), I set out to do the Munich which consists of the following; 4Kg Munich malt, 0.5Kg, Carapils, 0.1Kg Acidulated, hopped with a new variety Aramis. I will use the spent grains from this for my sour experiment.

munich boil.jpg

After draining the bag for the Munich, I dumped it into my cooler whilst no chill cubing the wort. (I thought this would keep some of the heat in the grains).

spent grains.jpg

Place back in urn, and top up with 25 litres of 60 Deg C water (I use hot water from combi-boiler). I then added 1Kg of pale malt, and 1Kg of crystal wheat, as I didn't have any wheat malt available. (I was surprised how dark the crystal was, oh well, that's what experiments are for)!
I let this mash for 2 hours (convenience, not choice), raised the bag, squeezed and drained into cooler. When the temp got to 50 Deg C, I sprinkled with what I had left of acid malt (about 0.2Kg).

inocculated wort.jpg

sealed wort.jpg

wrapped wort.jpg

After 36 hours, temp at 38 Deg C, and pH at 4.0. I did a decoction and raised back up to 46 Deg C.

pH test.jpg

Will unwrap tonight and boil for 20 mins with a tiny amount of hops, and see what I get.

I will keep you updated on progress.

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The smell is hard to describe, i don't have a very good sense of smell or taste!
It is grainy, but musky. My 6 year old says sweaty feet! Does that help?

It doesn't taste very sour, i guess it may do once it has been boiled and fermented out .

I would really like to know the difference in smells, as i don't know whether i have Lacto, Aceto, or entero (or other putridness)

I will keep you posted.

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update;

i checked the pH again after 72 hours, and there was no change (still 4.0). So doesn't look like it will be very sour
The smell hadn't changed either, i was expecting something worse, but it was still just musty/musky, but his could be the wheat as i haven't used wheat previously.
i tasted it, and although it wasn't pleasant, it didn't seem sour, or off, or bad at all. i will just have to ride it out i guess.

Boiled for about 20 mins with a little cascade (took a long time to get there as it was about 8 Deg C outside), and ended up smelling just like normal beer at the end.

I think i will have about 20 or so litres, and the OG was 1.030 ish, so looks like i got close to what i was expecting (all in my head, no "calculator" here).

i think i will just need to ferment it out now, and see if it is a)drinkable & b)sour

I will keep you posted

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shibolet wrote:will probably be drinkable but not very sour. i have one of those...

I have bottled it now Shibolet, but not properly tasted yet. From the bottling bucket dregs it didn't seem sour at all, but it did leave my mouth feeling very dry afterwards, so maybe something has happened after all (maybe just not lacto).

As a side experiment what i have done is bought a yogurt maker and some sachets of culture (contains S.Thermophilus, L Bulgaricus, L Acidophilus, L Lactis, and Bifido) see here.
I wanted to test the dried cultures were OK, so set out to make some plain yogurt. This turned out fine.
I strained the whey with my BIAB bag into a sterile glass jar, and mixed in some sterile DME starter, about 100ml/10g (I also ate the yogurt)!
I placed this in my yogurt maker for 48 hours, let the milk proteins settle and decanted into a larger sterile jar. Added about 600ml more DME and placed in the yogurt maker for a further 48 hours.
I allowed the culture to cool down, and did a quick taste test, and boy was it sour
It is now in the fridge asleep awaiting the brew day for trial 2.
Also, my daughter had some dried raspberrys for her school lunch that she didn't like, so the bugs are munching on them now too as we speak.
Once i have managed to test this out on a large brew i will update with pics too.

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Well brew day was on Sunday, and i soured the wort with the starter.
Here is a pic after 2 days.

sour mash 2.jpg

There was plenty of fizzing, and a cheesy, sweaty feet smell. temp was down to 26 deg C, so decocted back up to 37. pH was at 4.1.

Day 3 - fizzing stopped, and wort looks dormant, tastes sour, smell has intensified, slightly more vomit like but not too offensive. pH was 3.2, so it went for boil and cubing.
So far it still looks like a successful experiment

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Imagine reading the above post if you were NOT a brewer or beer enthusiast!

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That's the influence of PP again!

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i don't think the lacto can consume all the sugars.
i've never added DME after souring but on the other hand, my last three berlinner wiesses came out crap

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Thanks Shibolet;

my first attempt isn't too good either, it tastes just like watered down ale

i read about lacto reducing the gravity here.
he mentions 1.030 to 1.004 (3 days), then adding DME for the Sacc to munch on

i am hoping #2 is better, as it actually tasted sour pre-boil (& was pH 3.2).

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