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Brett primary fermentation

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Has anybody done a pure brett (brettanomyces) beer, no "normal" beer yeast (sacchromyces) used? Brett is supposed to work just like sac for primary fermentation, producing some nice fruity and tropical esters but not the funk it's normally known for when used as a secondary fermentation yeast. The only real concern is very dry beer because brett will eat sugars that normal sac can't.

Chad from Crooked Stave Brewery (who use brett as a primary in almost all of their beers) wrote a fantastic dissertation regarding brett primary here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/unders ... rs-298943/

I recently cultured some brett from a bottle of Goose Island Matilda and grew a nice big starter. I decided yesterday to do an Imperial IPA test batch and ferment solely with the brett.

I used some wheat, crystal, and cara to add body and mashed high to compensate for the dryness. The Vienna adds a nice color and I read that it complments brett nicely. I also read that brett does wonderful things with a bit of acid malt to chew on so I tossed some of that in too. Recipe details below, I'll let y'all know how it turns out in a few weeks.


Brett IIPA
OG: 1.083
FG: ???
IBU: 96.4
batch size (into packaging): 1.5 gallon
end of boil/into fermenter volume: 1.88 gallon
90 minute mash (154-156F)
60 minute boil
yeast: Brettanomyces bruxellensis (brett b)

Grain:
2 row pale: 54.55%
Vienna: 18.18%
wheat malt: 18.18%
C-60: 4.55%
carapils: 2.27%
acid malt: 2.27% (add during last 10 minutes of mash)

Hops:(pellet, no hop bags used)
---FWH:
14g Chinook (11.1 aa)
7g Centennial (9.7 aa)
---15 minutes before end of boil:
7g Citra (13.9 aa)
---end of boil/steeped for duration of 30 minute chill process* and then strained out before fermenting:
7g Chinook
7g Centennial
7g Citra
---dryhop for 5-7 days after 3 week primary fermentation (1 week @ 65F, 2 weeks @ 70-72F):
7g Chinook
14g Centennial
14g Citra

*chilled immediately after flameout with ice bath in sink.

---Todd



(I think that should be enough info to make Pat happy)
Last edited by thughes on 05 Nov 2012, 02:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #2 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
Todd, could it be that we were separated at birth? :)
here's my recipe for a 100% APA. i already bought the grain but haven't brewed yet

100% brett pale ale (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.061 (°P): 15.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 5.99 %
Colour (SRM): 5.0 (EBC): 9.9
Bitterness (IBU): 41.3 (Average)

70.17% Pale Ale Malt
22.5% Wheat Malt
3.67% Acidulated Malt
3.67% Carapils (Dextrine)

2.2 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Amarillo (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Calypso (13% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.3 g/L Calypso (13% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
1.3 g/L ZYTHOS (10% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

0.3 g/L Irish Moss @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.3 g/L Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 67°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with ECY 19


Recipe Generated with BrewMate
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #3 made 14 years ago
by thughes
I just knew I would get a bite from you on this one. ;)

Where are you going to get your brett? I have used the Wyeast 5112 as a secondary after fermenting with Belgian Abby Ale yeast, that gave me a really nice horse blanket funk but I'm not sure how it would do as a primary.

---Todd
Last edited by thughes on 05 Nov 2012, 05:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
i picked up some East Coast Yeast while i was in NJ last June.
i'll be using ECY 19. i will put in a 1L starter and hope for the best. should do well for primary fermentation.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Mine is chugging away, took off about 12 hours after I pitched.....smells like a big bowl of fruit salad in my fermenting fridge right now! :party:

---Todd
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Hey Noam, this is down to 1.014 after 13 days! Right now that puts it at 8.5% ABV. I'm going to give it another 2 weeks and then see where we're at, if it's stable I'll dry hop for a few days and then bottle. The hydro sample I just took is quite tastey but VERY boozy...hope that alcohol burn mellows a bit over the next few weeks. So far I am liking this Brett fermentation, how are you doing with yours?

---Todd.
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
I have a 1.5 liter starter going for the last 30 hours. If it looks good later I will pitch it to the batch I brewed on Friday. My OG was 1060 so I'm expecting an FG of around 1010. I will dry hop when I reach 1013 or so.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #8 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
Image
This is what happens when you'r too lazy to put in a blowoff.
Last edited by shibolet on 20 Nov 2012, 02:04, edited 2 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #9 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Yep, Good Thing is you did not have a BLOW OFF tube that plugged, and Sprayed the Ceiling and Walls, and then, dripped on the Floor.. I Done That.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
so the 100% Brett Pale Ale is now at apx. 1.014 and has just been dry hoped with 30gr of Calypso and 30gr of Zythos.
how is your's doing Todd ?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Haven't checked it recently but it's probably overdue now for a few days of dryhopping as soon as I get the chance....
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Post #12 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
100% Brett Pale Ale is now at 1.008. just set the fridge to crash chill.
i might actually try bottling one or two in plastic Todd...
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #13 made 14 years ago
by mally
Todd,

i saw you cultured from Matilda in the first post; i presume this worked OK?
I have just got my hands on Sofie :o so to speak! and wondered if it would be worth doing the same?
SOFIE.jpg
I haven't tried the beer yet, so cannot say whether i would even like to replicate it, but i am more interested in the viability & whether it is the primary strain etc. before pursuing.
I have also yet to try a Lagunitas IPA as well, but dont think this has live yeast (just has floaties)!

Any info you could impart would be appreciated.
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Last edited by mally on 10 Dec 2012, 21:41, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #14 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Hard to say....Sofie is fermented with wild yeast (brett and other components) and then a portion of it is aged in oak before being mixed back into the main batch. My instinct says that while there may be some viable primary yeast, anything that is aged for any amount of time requires that a secondary yeast be added at priming/bottling time to provide carbonation. This beer is highly carbonated (as a farmhouse or saison should be) so I would think that it's likely that a champagne type yeast is added at bottling. The Matilda is fermented purely with brett so it's safe to say that the bottle dregs are of the primary strain.

---Todd
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Post #15 made 14 years ago
by mally
Thanks Todd, I guess i should just drink it then! :drink:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #16 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Hey Noam, I packaged mine tonight (1.5 gllon Tap-a-Draft keg). It finished at 1.013 (8.6% ABV) and smells wonderful, can't wait to tap it!! I'm thinking I will go full 5 gallon batch next time with this one, maybe split it after primary and add a little lacto to one for some sour.

---Todd
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Post #17 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
i bottled mine last Tuesday, FG around 1.011, smelles great.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #18 made 14 years ago
by thughes
OK, I just tapped this and had a taste. It's not fully carbed yet but it is definitly "different" from anything I have ever made. It's a bit sweet on the tongue initially yet finishes bitter like a good IPA should. Has a geat fruity aroma, mostly pineapple and tangerine with a little bit of grapefruit and pine maybe? (my palate sucks). At 8.6 ABV there is also some hint of alcohol warmth.

I should probably have another pint or two to form a better opinion but it's only 3 PM here and I've a long night ahead of me. We'll see how she settles out after a few more days in the fridge.

---Todd
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Post #19 made 14 years ago
by mally
It sounds great Todd. Would you brew it again, or was it just experimentation?

BTW - the Sophie i had was very average, wouldnt buy again or try to clone.
To my poor palate it was like mixing equal quantities of wheat beer & champagne :|
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #20 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
had my first sample on Saturday, it was lovely. very very fruity with just enough bitterness to carry through the sip without lingering. i am sure it will change over time and develop a deeper brett character.

BTW. i also sampled a saison i brewed with an East Coast Yeast brett blend, what a great beer. sour but not offensive and very drinkable. reminded my of white wine.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #21 made 14 years ago
by thughes
@ mally: Not sure if I would do the exact same again. I'll definitly continue to experiment with all-brett fermentation but next time around I'm going to do something I'm more familiar with, perhaps a hoppy APA or maybe even get crazy and ferment a Mild or session Bitter with brett.

@ shibolet: Jury is going to be out on this one for a little while. It's a big beer and I really don't like big beers in general, plus this one has a lot of other things going on (high IBU, several different hops, the brett, etc). I can appreciate the craft of a high ABV beer but find it tough to get past that "alcohol burn". I like the idea of a saison done will all brett, maybe try a berlinerweisse with brett? (thinking......)

---Todd
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Post #22 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Maris Otter with a bit of crystal, EKG and/or Styrian Golding hops, brett fermentation, shooting for @ 30 IBU's and 4% ABV....... :think:

Stay tuned.......
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Post #23 made 14 years ago
by mally
Now that sounds interesting Todd.
I too do not like high ABV beers, so it looks like something i would try myself.
Are you reusing the Matilda Brett, or have you another source?

I am interested as, i haven't decided on where to source Brett myself yet (dregs or wyeast etc.) & I could even blend with the pure lacto i did to get more sour character :think: (as well)!
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #24 made 14 years ago
by thughes
I'll probably just grab a few different varieties of brett from Wyeast for the next round of testing.
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Post #25 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Updated tasting notes with the all brett IIPA:

nice spicy/floral aromas, bitterness and alcohol burn are mellowing, it's turning out to be a nice "sipper". I still can't handle more than a snifter full at a time but it's a good way to kick off the evening!
Image
Last edited by thughes on 14 Jan 2013, 08:56, edited 2 times in total.
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