If you No-Chill and don't pull the hops out at flameout, Please add 20-30 minutes to the 60 minute hops!!!!

The 68.7 IBU will almost double.

joshua wrote:If you No-Chill and don't pull the hops out at flameout, Please add 20-30 minutes to the 60 minute hops!!!!

The 68.7 IBU will almost double.

Citation needed

I dunno the hops I toss into the cube as I drain straight off the boil,don't seem to add alot of bitterness,mostly flavor and aroma.

Yeasty, Experiments and the book "Brewing, Science and Practice" show that the Alpha-acid that makes beer bitter, melt/begining to work at 95C/200F and will continue to bitter until all is gone.

If you make a hop tea at a temperature of 190F/90C very,very little bitterness comes out but a lot of flavor and Aroma, these two alpha acid will stop working at 68C/158F.

Or if you FWH will will get Flavor and Aroma shortly after you drop the hops at mashout.

If you have time and old grains make an unhoped wort, let it cool and then add some old hops at 190F/90C and let the wort continue to cool naturely.

When it cools, You can taste the flavor and smell the Aroma, but detect very little Bitterness

I have Done this over Summer, since it is difficult to ferment at 85F/30C.

Hi Bradfordlad

Good work on the calculator, it all looks fine. I've added the last of the hops and it hit 68.2 which is what I think you are after. You may want to drop your efficiency a couple of points as with a high gravity brew you have a thicker mash and you lose a bit on efficiency. Doing that though will push your mash volume up so you may have to juggle things around till you are happy.

Keep it up Brad Lad your doing great.

Yeasty

joshua wrote:Yeasty, Experiments and the book "Brewing, Science and Practice" show that the Alpha-acid that makes beer bitter, melt/begining to work at 95C/200F and will continue to bitter until all is gone.

If you make a hop tea at a temperature of 190F/90C very,very little bitterness comes out but a lot of flavor and Aroma, these two alpha acid will stop working at 68C/158F.

Or if you FWH will will get Flavor and Aroma shortly after you drop the hops at mashout.

If you have time and old grains make an unhoped wort, let it cool and then add some old hops at 190F/90C and let the wort continue to cool naturely.

When it cools, You can taste the flavor and smell the Aroma, but detect very little Bitterness

I have Done this over Summer, since it is difficult to ferment at 85F/30C.

How does this explain your comment that the IBU's will almost double or am I missing something..? do you think that the hops sitting in the hot wort will continue to utilise and add to the bitterness almost doubling it !! If you change a 1 oz hop addition boil time from 60 to 90 minutes the IBU's aren't doubled they are only taken up a couple of points.



Yeasty

Yeasty, the programs show that 6-8 points from 60-90 or 90-120 Minutes, But, The thing called Cis-Humulinic Acid, A componet of the biiterness, will stay in solution until 68C/156F.

SO, if the hops are left in the wort and allow to cool, there may be bitterness until that temperature is reached.

I have made some beer with 30 IBU calcultions for 90Minutes, Quickly cooled this, and had that low bitterness, another batch was left to cool for 4 hours to room temperature, and it was too bitter to drink, like a 68 IBU I have made.

As Lylo wrote dropping hops at flameout add alot of flavor and Aroma, but add little bitterness in the Cube.

What I do now for Slow-Chill is pull the bitter hops at the 60-90minute time, and wait until the Wort is cooled to less than 190F/90C and add the flavor/Aroma hops for the needed time, then pull them.

I have not had the major bitterness I had with Slow Chilling earlier.

Hi Joshua

I don't want to hijack bradfordlads thread anymore as PP and myself have been telling him to keep it simple and here we are discussing IBU's and no chill. The poor lads head will explode.

I'll start another thread in the Hopping or chilling section..It might already be touched on Here.... Chilling Myths - Asking the right questions so we could give this one a bump. Tomorrow though, its bedtime for me..

Yeasty

Yeasty, it is only 1am your time, so tomorrow will be 3am my time. If you a PP wish to delete this off topic or move it it will be fine by me.

This is a study, I am moving on to fermenting and tasting Finished Beer, no longer unfermented wort!!

The thread that Yeasty mentioned in pot #38 is definitely a good one for the IBU discussion. Fair bit of progress made there already which is good.

Dave, that's really nice work on your calculator file . Yeasty has fixed the only problem that was there - he added in AA%'s to cell J14-16. So, good on you .

If you want the true 'Tinseth' result, also change cell F5 to 1.060. (You'll see the IBU's drop by about 5 - not even worth changing the numbers). We added that average gravity thing in a while back when we were trying to work out why no two programs agree on IBU's. Further study found the correct interpretation which, funnily enough was the same formulas as we had in the first 'The Calculator' .

We did a side by side no-chill versus chilled beer (with the active chill starting 20 minutes after the boil) here on a hoppy beer a few months ago and found no difference on that beer - both were yum . So, don't be worried about delaying any hop additions because the truth of the matter is that you are copying a recipe and there is no way of knowing what chilling method was originally used and at what time any active chilling was commenced. The other thread has more detail on this.

So, brew it Dave - you are good to go! ,
PP

bradfordlad wrote:ps. I know i have been advised against maxi-biab for now but any chance i could run a method/theory over you guys? I like to plan ahead

Great idea Dave..

[EDIT: Just wrote the below while you were writing the above Brad. Maybe put the above into a The Calculator file as though you weren't going to maxi-BIAB as this will make things faster to check for us. Haven't read your post in any detail above yet and probably won't be able to tonight so maybe also check you have read the link below and that the advice there fits your plan. E.G. You cannot remove 1 L or wort - all wort must be boiled. Cheers!]

No! No! No!

We're only joking Dave . Yeasty has been working on the BIABacus where all the maxi-BIAB stuff can be done quickly and easily. There have been so many maxi-BIAB questions in the last few weeks for some reason that we keep getting side-tracked from work on getting the BIABacus out on the main forum.

Put your plan up here for sure though along with the normal calculator file and we can check it for sure .

Before doing that, have a good read of this thread as that will help ensure you are intending to employ active sparging and dilution for the right reasons.

Will look forward to seeing what you come up with ,
PP

Hey just thought of something..

I live in Lancashire should I realy be helping someone in Yorkshire ??? over to you PP he's all yours.

Only joking

Hi Bradfordlad

As a relative newbie here, take this with a pinch of salt. However; I guess you have 3 choices:
1) get a bigger pan
2) aim for lower end of boil/batch volumes.
or....
3) Is it possible you could do a higher gravity wort and top it up to your required volume with boiled (sanitised) water afterwards?
I guess your efficiencies and hop schedule will be off kilter, but just a thought .

good luck whatever you do (and i'm not so sure our international members would be aware of the war of the roses either)!

bradfordlad wrote:I was hoping I could remove that 1 Litre of wort post mash/pre boil and add it back in with the sparged wort as soon as the main boil started...

Ah, that's fine. Ignore my last post on the 1 L bit - that was me reading too quickly .

Maxi-BIAB is all about juggling things around however, I think there are some basic rules that can be followed to ensure you don't get into dangerous territory when maxi-BIAB planning. I'll have a crack at it here .

Answer the following questions..

1. Full-Volume or Not - Is it possible to put all your water into the mash?

Yes - Do it! [END]
No - [GO TO 2.]

2. Sparge - Will all the remaining water fit into your kettle after the bag is pulled?

Yes - Pull the bag , dump into a second vessel with remaining water that is heated. Drain bag again and return resulting wort to main kettle. [END]

No - Do the above with as much of the remaining water as will fit into the main kettle comfortably. [GO TO 3.]

3. Dilution? Does the volume of water remaining exceed 30% of the estimated Volume into Fermentor?

Yes - Reduce your desired Volume into Fermentor. [GO BACK TO 1.]

No - Add remaining water during the boil or to the fermentor. [END]

...

You still have to make some practical decisions. For example, say if you could get 85% of your water into the mash, is it really worth doing a sparge with all the extra mess and equipment or should you just dilute? (I have this on big double batches and just dilute and there is no obvious efficiency penalty.)

Anyway, too much rambling from me. I better go and do some work .