I used The Calculator yesterday and it got me exactly on my numbers. Now I want to do these two recipes. My biggest question is about the hops schedule and if its going to make the best tasting beer.
So I'm going to strive for an OG of 1.080. With an end of boil volume of 6.3 gallons.
With these grains:
Grains Weight (g) Weight LBS
Total 8208.469055 * 18.09655505
two row 7414.101082 16.34527553
Caramel 60L 397.1839866 0.87563976
Victory 264.7893244 0.58375984
Aromatic 132.3946622 0.29187992
With these hops
Time Grams Ounces AA% IBU
60 29.8 1.05 11.8 = 27.4 Chinook
45 15.0 0.53 12.8 = 13.8 Columbus
30 15.0 0.53 6.4 = 5.8 Cascade
20 15.0 0.53 12.8 = 9.1 Columbus
10 15.0 0.53 6.4 = 2.8 Cascade
5 28.3 1.00 3.3 = 2.9 leafed crystal (crushed?)
I'll round those to the nearest gram measures to 30g and 15g. Should be around 60-65 IBUs?
If I wanted a few more IBU...say 80.. then just chuck in an extra 8 grams columbus at 60 min, bump each of the 15 g additions to 20 and go?
If I get around 76% efficiency (which I may very well not considering the gravity and BIAB) Does anyone see a problem with this? Keep in mind that my volume of wort after the boil will be 6.3 gallons.
The second recipe will be with the same equipment and such with a desired OG of around 1.070. These are my available hops:
HOP AA%
columbus 12.8
Magnum 11.6
Cascade 6.6
willamette 6
Tettnanger 4
Magnum 11.6
cascade leaf 8.8
crystal leaf 3.3
Galena 13.2
Nuggett 12.4
Colombus 13.3
Summit 15.5
Warrior 16
Willamette 4
Edit: Forgot to add my available grains...
My malts:
Two Row
Marris Otter
Crystal 60
Crystal 120
Vienna
Aromatic
Victory
Unmalted Wheat
Thanks in advance!
Wes
Post #2 made 14 years ago
I think your efficiency will definitely be down with such a large grain bill.
I did a 1071 black IPA yesterday which was a 42L (11.3 gallons) final volume and it took 15kg of grain to get there, plus I boiled slightly longer than my recipe to achieve the 1071. Based on my outcome to get 6.3 gallons of 1071 you'd need 8kg (18 lbs), so I am guessing that you would need closer to 10kg (20 lbs)or more of grain to hit 1080. I have found that efficiency does drop off on stronger beers and you need to add extra grain to compensate or adjust your boil.
Personally I am not sure adding so many seperate hop additions to one boil makes that much difference to flavour (some of the more experienced brewers may shoot me down in flames here), but I tend to stick with 60 minute bittering hops and 10 or 5 minute additions and then dry hop. I do no chill, so i have stopped 20 minute additions and use 10 & 5 instead.
I did a 1071 black IPA yesterday which was a 42L (11.3 gallons) final volume and it took 15kg of grain to get there, plus I boiled slightly longer than my recipe to achieve the 1071. Based on my outcome to get 6.3 gallons of 1071 you'd need 8kg (18 lbs), so I am guessing that you would need closer to 10kg (20 lbs)or more of grain to hit 1080. I have found that efficiency does drop off on stronger beers and you need to add extra grain to compensate or adjust your boil.
Personally I am not sure adding so many seperate hop additions to one boil makes that much difference to flavour (some of the more experienced brewers may shoot me down in flames here), but I tend to stick with 60 minute bittering hops and 10 or 5 minute additions and then dry hop. I do no chill, so i have stopped 20 minute additions and use 10 & 5 instead.
Post #3 made 14 years ago
I agree with Aces, not sure about all the individual hop additions either. I have settled on doing a FWH and then the remainder go in the cube (no-chill) for a majority of my recipes. Sorry for an answer that really doesn't address the original question.
WWBBD?
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
I,m in the same camp as Aces and Thughes on the hops.
I think that all those different hop additions will be overkill. Not in volume, but in number of varieties. There are so many varieties there you may have a hard time deciding which hop did the most good? Consider reducing the hops to 2-3 varieties. This way you can become familiar with each hop.
While Im not positive, I dont think you need to crush the whole leaf hops.
trout
I think that all those different hop additions will be overkill. Not in volume, but in number of varieties. There are so many varieties there you may have a hard time deciding which hop did the most good? Consider reducing the hops to 2-3 varieties. This way you can become familiar with each hop.
While Im not positive, I dont think you need to crush the whole leaf hops.
trout
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Post #5 made 14 years ago
Thanks guys. I am going to change the addition times of the hops in the schedule but I'm going to maintain the 60 IBUs. I'm still really wondering what kinds of good beers I can make with the ingredients I have though.
Post #6 made 14 years ago
Hey there Wes,
I'm short on time atm but have noticed quickly a few things I want to comment on (quickly means only half an essay
)...
You said, "If I get around 76% efficiency (which I may very well not considering the gravity and BIAB)"...
Firstly, when you say, "76% efficiency," what do you mean? Conversion, mash, pre-boil (EIK), post-boil, into fermentor (EIF), or brewhouse efficiency? The words/terms, 'efficiency,' or 'brewhouse efficiency" thanks to some poorly thought out brewing programs are now meaningless terms. Don't use them. For any system you use, the higher gravity beer you brew, whatever brewing method you use, any efficiency measurement goes down.
The "...and BIAB" bit implies that BIAB is a low efficiency method. What have you read Wes that implies this? I know there is a heap of stuff out there that implies this. Ask anyone, like me though, that has done both traditional and BIAB brews (sometimes side by side) and they will tell you that BIAB is actually a more efficient method than batch-sparging (on a normal gravity brew add 5%).
It took me a few years to see it but there are actually several sensible, logical, scientific reasons why full-volume BIAB is a more efficient all-grain method. Don't believe everything you read
.
Reading, studying and asking the right questions in the right places are the best ways to get to know what to do with what you have on hand.
(The BIABacus program that a lot of guys are working on here will be able to answer your last question here but only at a basic level and it certainly won't be able to do it without weights.) What you need to ask yourself is, "Why did I buy this stuff?"
PP
I'm short on time atm but have noticed quickly a few things I want to comment on (quickly means only half an essay
)...You said, "If I get around 76% efficiency (which I may very well not considering the gravity and BIAB)"...
Firstly, when you say, "76% efficiency," what do you mean? Conversion, mash, pre-boil (EIK), post-boil, into fermentor (EIF), or brewhouse efficiency? The words/terms, 'efficiency,' or 'brewhouse efficiency" thanks to some poorly thought out brewing programs are now meaningless terms. Don't use them. For any system you use, the higher gravity beer you brew, whatever brewing method you use, any efficiency measurement goes down.
The "...and BIAB" bit implies that BIAB is a low efficiency method. What have you read Wes that implies this? I know there is a heap of stuff out there that implies this. Ask anyone, like me though, that has done both traditional and BIAB brews (sometimes side by side) and they will tell you that BIAB is actually a more efficient method than batch-sparging (on a normal gravity brew add 5%).
It took me a few years to see it but there are actually several sensible, logical, scientific reasons why full-volume BIAB is a more efficient all-grain method. Don't believe everything you read
.No one can possibly answer that question as you have no quantities.I'm still really wondering what kinds of good beers I can make with the ingredients I have though.
Reading, studying and asking the right questions in the right places are the best ways to get to know what to do with what you have on hand.
(The BIABacus program that a lot of guys are working on here will be able to answer your last question here but only at a basic level and it certainly won't be able to do it without weights.) What you need to ask yourself is, "Why did I buy this stuff?"
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Feb 2012, 04:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:Hey there Wes,
I'm short on time atm but have noticed quickly a few things I want to comment on (quickly means only half an essay
You said, "If I get around 76% efficiency (which I may very well not considering the gravity and BIAB)"...
Firstly, when you say, "76% efficiency," what do you mean? Conversion, mash, pre-boil (EIK), post-boil, into fermentor (EIF), or brewhouse efficiency? The words/terms, 'efficiency,' or 'brewhouse efficiency" thanks to some poorly thought out brewing programs are now meaningless terms. Don't use them. For any system you use, the higher gravity beer you brew, whatever brewing method you use, any efficiency measurement goes down.
The "...and BIAB" bit implies that BIAB is a low efficiency method. What have you read Wes that implies this? I know there is a heap of stuff out there that implies this. Ask anyone, like me though, that has done both traditional and BIAB brews (sometimes side by side) and they will tell you that BIAB is actually a more efficient method than batch-sparging (on a normal gravity brew add 5%).
It took me a few years to see it but there are actually several sensible, logical, scientific reasons why full-volume BIAB is a more efficient all-grain method. Don't believe everything you read
No one can possibly answer that question as you have no quantities.I'm still really wondering what kinds of good beers I can make with the ingredients I have though.
Reading, studying and asking the right questions in the right places are the best ways to get to know what to do with what you have on hand.
(The BIABacus program that a lot of guys are working on here will be able to answer your last question here but only at a basic level and it certainly won't be able to do it without weights.) What you need to ask yourself is, "Why did I buy this stuff?"
PP
Thanks Pistol! I didn't mean to imply that its a low efficiency method, but, from what I wrote, it really looks like I did. I'm talking end of boil efficiency I think. The one "The Calculator" uses on the volumes sheet. If I did everything correctly I got about 79% eff on my first biab. I hit my OG of 1.051 exactly as planned so I guess I did ok. I do think I need a slightly finer crush on the grains though. Some of the grains seemed to slide through without really getting crushed.
I really have quite a bit of each of those ingredients right now. I have round 40lbs of the MO and 2row, and probably 10-20 lbs of everything else listed except maybe the aromatic which I'm not super sure about (maybe 2-6 lbs). I have a couple IPAs planned but I was hoping to broaden my horizons a bit and maybe do a light summer ale or two. (I also have grains of paradise.)
I have about a pound some of the hops listed but only 3 oz of the last 6 listed.
The yeast I have is wlp001 and wlp002. I am not opposed to culturing from a dreg of a commercial bottle either.
I'm open to any recipe suggestions. I really like IPAs but I like a lot of different beers. I am not opposed to a stout or porter but summer is right around the corner. Someone once suggested a wit with all that unmalted wheat I have.
Thanks,
Wes
Last edited by flyfisherwes on 21 Feb 2012, 05:22, edited 3 times in total.
Post #8 made 14 years ago
Good on you Wes 
,
Still short on time here but nice to read the above.
Pre-boil efficiency, Efficiency into Kettle (EIK), End of Boil Efficency, Mash Efficiency or Post-Boil Efficiency are pretty much identical (many brewers say they should be totally identical) and are unaffected by kettle/fermentor or cube losses. They are easy to understand and define. The Calculator shows a lot of efficiencies but the one on the first page refers to EIK which is pretty much the same/identical to 'end of boil efficiency.'
Getting a good crush is hard and needs a good mill. Grains are all different sizes so being able to squash the small ones without pulverizing the large grains is hard. Big rollers are the key. Running the grains through twice can sometimes be the answer but you never want to end up with flour.
By the look of your last post, you have heaps of everything. I'm not great on recipes - I almost always steal other brewer's recipes that I trust and then modify those if needs be. I think though that even knowing you have a lot of these grains/hops on hand, it is a big ask to request other brewers (even a total recipe expert) to tell you what to do with your stock. There are hundreds of possibilities so...
My suggestion is to buy, "Brewing Classic Styles," and use that as your base. There are so many bad recipes on the net it's not funny. Look through BCS and find a recipe you like. Have you got the ingredients? If yes, brew it. If not, buy them or read on a few more pages.
Make sense?
PP
P.S. Where did all these grains and hops come from?
,Still short on time here but nice to read the above.
Pre-boil efficiency, Efficiency into Kettle (EIK), End of Boil Efficency, Mash Efficiency or Post-Boil Efficiency are pretty much identical (many brewers say they should be totally identical) and are unaffected by kettle/fermentor or cube losses. They are easy to understand and define. The Calculator shows a lot of efficiencies but the one on the first page refers to EIK which is pretty much the same/identical to 'end of boil efficiency.'
Getting a good crush is hard and needs a good mill. Grains are all different sizes so being able to squash the small ones without pulverizing the large grains is hard. Big rollers are the key. Running the grains through twice can sometimes be the answer but you never want to end up with flour.
By the look of your last post, you have heaps of everything. I'm not great on recipes - I almost always steal other brewer's recipes that I trust and then modify those if needs be. I think though that even knowing you have a lot of these grains/hops on hand, it is a big ask to request other brewers (even a total recipe expert) to tell you what to do with your stock. There are hundreds of possibilities so...
My suggestion is to buy, "Brewing Classic Styles," and use that as your base. There are so many bad recipes on the net it's not funny. Look through BCS and find a recipe you like. Have you got the ingredients? If yes, brew it. If not, buy them or read on a few more pages.
Make sense?
PP
P.S. Where did all these grains and hops come from?
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
Hey there,
From my opinion, you got a nice make up for an excellent American DIPA going there. Personally, I'd be light handed on the aromatic malt. Definitely start with the 2 row base malt. Cystal 60 is good and victory can enhance this also. I tend to like my IPAs on the darker limits of the style though
As for the hops, its been voiced already but I'd stick to 2-3 hops MAX. I'd cut out the crystal hops and replace with the hop that you want most forward, say cascade, then I'd also do a dry hop with it after primary fermentation is done. That way you get a complex flavor from your late additions and also an in your face aroma that the style requires.
From my opinion, you got a nice make up for an excellent American DIPA going there. Personally, I'd be light handed on the aromatic malt. Definitely start with the 2 row base malt. Cystal 60 is good and victory can enhance this also. I tend to like my IPAs on the darker limits of the style though
As for the hops, its been voiced already but I'd stick to 2-3 hops MAX. I'd cut out the crystal hops and replace with the hop that you want most forward, say cascade, then I'd also do a dry hop with it after primary fermentation is done. That way you get a complex flavor from your late additions and also an in your face aroma that the style requires.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:Good on you Wes
Still short on time here but nice to read the above.
Pre-boil efficiency, Efficiency into Kettle (EIK), End of Boil Efficency, Mash Efficiency or Post-Boil Efficiency are pretty much identical (many brewers say they should be totally identical) and are unaffected by kettle/fermentor or cube losses. They are easy to understand and define. The Calculator shows a lot of efficiencies but the one on the first page refers to EIK which is pretty much the same/identical to 'end of boil efficiency.'
Getting a good crush is hard and needs a good mill. Grains are all different sizes so being able to squash the small ones without pulverizing the large grains is hard. Big rollers are the key. Running the grains through twice can sometimes be the answer but you never want to end up with flour.
By the look of your last post, you have heaps of everything. I'm not great on recipes - I almost always steal other brewer's recipes that I trust and then modify those if needs be. I think though that even knowing you have a lot of these grains/hops on hand, it is a big ask to request other brewers (even a total recipe expert) to tell you what to do with your stock. There are hundreds of possibilities so...
My suggestion is to buy, "Brewing Classic Styles," and use that as your base. There are so many bad recipes on the net it's not funny. Look through BCS and find a recipe you like. Have you got the ingredients? If yes, brew it. If not, buy them or read on a few more pages.
Make sense?
PP
P.S. Where did all these grains and hops come from?
Thanks, I have a Barley Crusher. I can't decide whether to adjust it just a little tighter or run them twice. I don't have a good way to measure the gap. I am going to have to do something though.
I have been meandering through the recommended recipes on another forum. My plan was to not really have to order many specialty grains but to broaden my horizons I believe I'm going to have to get some at some point. I usually find a recipe I think I'd like and end up having all but one ingredient. Like the recipe I used this past weekend called for crystal 10 but I used crystal 60 which should just change it a little. I usually ask where the recipe is posted if something can be substituted for with what I have.
All those grains and hops came from Austin Homebrew Supply and HopsDirect.com. I probably should have researched the recipes first then bought the grains. Oh well.
Last edited by flyfisherwes on 21 Feb 2012, 23:02, edited 3 times in total.
Post #11 made 14 years ago
Thanks, I agree. That was the plan when I ordered most of the grains. I like dark IPAs (and DIPAs) as well. I will probably just drop the crystal and go with cascade. Seems like that'd be best from the consensus.Squared wrote:Hey there,
From my opinion, you got a nice make up for an excellent American DIPA going there. Personally, I'd be light handed on the aromatic malt. Definitely start with the 2 row base malt. Cystal 60 is good and victory can enhance this also. I tend to like my IPAs on the darker limits of the style though
As for the hops, its been voiced already but I'd stick to 2-3 hops MAX. I'd cut out the crystal hops and replace with the hop that you want most forward, say cascade, then I'd also do a dry hop with it after primary fermentation is done. That way you get a complex flavor from your late additions and also an in your face aroma that the style requires.
I forgot to ask this, but if I make a recipe that I intend to get to about 1.080, is there a ball park number or range I should expect my end of boil efficiency to be?
Last edited by flyfisherwes on 21 Feb 2012, 23:06, edited 3 times in total.
Post #12 made 14 years ago
Im not sure about efficiency numbers, but a tip from someone who's tried a big beer last weekend, do a 90 minute mash & 90 minute boil. I usually do 60 & 60 on my 1050 beers but I really think the extra time would have helped this oneflyfisherwes wrote:Thanks, I agree. That was the plan when I ordered most of the grains. I like dark IPAs (and DIPAs) as well. I will probably just drop the crystal and go with cascade. Seems like that'd be best from the consensus.Squared wrote:Hey there,
From my opinion, you got a nice make up for an excellent American DIPA going there. Personally, I'd be light handed on the aromatic malt. Definitely start with the 2 row base malt. Cystal 60 is good and victory can enhance this also. I tend to like my IPAs on the darker limits of the style though
As for the hops, its been voiced already but I'd stick to 2-3 hops MAX. I'd cut out the crystal hops and replace with the hop that you want most forward, say cascade, then I'd also do a dry hop with it after primary fermentation is done. That way you get a complex flavor from your late additions and also an in your face aroma that the style requires.
I forgot to ask this, but if I make a recipe that I intend to get to about 1.080, is there a ball park number or range I should expect my end of boil efficiency to be?
Last edited by Aces high on 22 Feb 2012, 05:49, edited 3 times in total.
