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Munich Helles - (Nev's Tettnang Pilsner) - PP's Favourite!

Post #1 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
OVERVIEW

Style: Munich Helles
Name: Nev's Tettnang Pilsner
Yeast: Wyeast Danish Lager 2042 or Wyeast Bohemain Lager 2124 or Saflager S23
Original Gravity: The Calculator = 1.048, Beersmith = 1.048, BeerAlchemy = 1.050
Total IBU's: The Calculator = 17.6 IBU's, Beersmith = 18.9 IBU's, BeerAlchemy = 20 IBU's
Colour (EBC): BeerSmith 7.4, = BeerAlchemy = 8.2 EBC
Efficiency at End of Boil: 79%
Mash Length (mins): 90
Boil Length (mins): 90
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): Pot
Source/Credits: Neville Ash
Notes/Instructions/Comments: Nev classes this as a pilsner recipe but I may have played around with his recipe a bit - can't find the original. Have listed it as a Munich Helles but am happy to be corrected.

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 70
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 45
Water Required (L or gal): 40.41 L
Mash Temperature (C or F): 64 C
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal): 26.84 L
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal): 23 L
Brew Length (L or gal): 21.3 L
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 5356 g

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Weyermann Pilsner Malt = 4980 g
Grain 2: German Caramel Pils = 144 g
Grain 3: Weyermann Acidulated Malt = 144 g***
Grain 4: Weyermann Melanoidin Malt = 169 g

*** The acidulated malt is used to adjust pH for my water. You should ignore, adjust or use as an alternative suitable for your water.

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

Hop 1: Tettnang - 4.1% - 7.4 IBU - 20.8 g at 60 min
Hop 2: Tettnang - 4.1% - 5.5 IBU - 25.3 g at 20 min
Hop 3: Tettnang - 4.1% - 3.3 IBU - 25.3 g at 10 min
Hop 4: Tettnang - 4.1% - 1.4 IBU - 20.3 g at 5 min

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct:
Mineral:
Finings:
The Calculator - Munich Helles - Nev.xls
[ADMIN NOTE: The above was updated to the latest version of The Calculator on 12th March 2011 to fix a terminology error. Previous number of downloads = 32.]
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Sep 2010, 17:17, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #2 made 13 years ago
by stux
So, i'm thinking of having a crack at this recipe on Australia Day
Grain 1: Weyermann Pilsner Malt = 4980 g
Grain 2: German Caramel Pils = 144 g
Grain 3: Weyermann Acidulated Malt = 144 g***
Grain 4: Weyermann Melanoidin Malt = 169 g

*** The acidulated malt is used to adjust pH for my water. You should ignore, adjust or use as an alternative suitable for your water.
What do you mean about just ignore the acidulated malt? Do I just skip it? Or would I add something else? What about the Melanoidin? What's that?
Last edited by stux on 24 Jan 2011, 12:16, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #3 made 13 years ago
by stux
stux wrote:So, i'm thinking of having a crack at this recipe on Australia Day
Grain 1: Weyermann Pilsner Malt = 4980 g
Grain 2: German Caramel Pils = 144 g
Grain 3: Weyermann Acidulated Malt = 144 g***
Grain 4: Weyermann Melanoidin Malt = 169 g

*** The acidulated malt is used to adjust pH for my water. You should ignore, adjust or use as an alternative suitable for your water.
What do you mean about just ignore the acidulated malt? Do I just skip it? Or would I add something else? What about the Melanoidin? What's that?

So, Melanoidin = "Aromatic malt from Bamberg, Germany. Promotes a full flavor and rounds off beer color. Promotes deep red color and malty flavor."

And Acidulated Malt = Malt with Lactic acid in it (my German Purity knowledge tells me the germans would use this instead of chemical additives for PH correcting their water...)

So, with good ol Sydney H20, What should I replace the Acidulated with?
Last edited by stux on 24 Jan 2011, 16:41, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
[I see you just posted before me stux. Hope the below helps a bit more.]

I use acidulated malt to adjust the pH in all my recipes. Unless you have pH strips or a meter or advice from a local brewer, it is going to be pointless adjusting for pH so just do the brew and keep your fingers crossed.The amount used in the recipe is so small it is not worth increasing the other grains.

Mealnoidin malt is easily available in Australia. This link will give you a bit more information on both these malts. If I come across a grain I know nothing about, a google search usually gives me quick, quality info written in a far more concise manner than I would ever be capable of writing :lol:.

Good luck with it stux and make sure you keep back a few bottles for as long as you possibly can. I found quite a substantial flavour change after 9 months of cold conditioning some bottles. :yum:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Jan 2011, 16:42, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
by ianh
It depends on your water supply. I downloaded the spreadsheet from here http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
and entered my local water analysis values which I obtained from local water supplier.

Using my water analysis for the recipe the 144g of acidulated malt lowers the pH from 5.55 to 5.33. It would be different for different water supplies.

I normally add acidulated malt if using basically straight Pilsner or ale malt. Addition of roasted or crystal malts also lower the pH so if I am brewing a stout or brown ale the acidulated malt for me is not required.
Last edited by ianh on 27 Apr 2011, 12:56, edited 5 times in total.

Post #7 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
finally got around to brewing this. i'm keeping my fingers crosses.
just pitched the yeast, two pockets of re-hydrated Fermentis 34/70 dry lager yeast into 22 liters of 1048 wort at 11C.
i plan to hold it at this temp for 3-4 weeks, them maybe 2 days deacetyl rest and than to my un temp controlled fridge for as long as i can help myself.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by stux
Sounds like a good approach

Since you didn't pitch warm the d-rest might not be necessary. Best to take a sample and taste it before cranking the temp
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #9 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
so i'v had this lagering in a glass carboy for about 2 months. i'll keg it as soon as i empty my next keg.
the problem is that it is not clearing at all. it still looks quite cloudy even after so long at 3-4C.
any suggestions?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #10 made 12 years ago
by Yeasty
Polyclar is good stuff..Link Here

It has been mentioned here somewhere, Ralph has talked about it I think. I used it last year on a Helles and it worked a treat.
Last edited by Yeasty on 08 Jan 2012, 05:32, edited 5 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #11 made 12 years ago
by stux
When I made this recipe, with S-23, it dropped so clear that I actually got specific mention for its clarity in a beer comp.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #12 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
stux wrote:When I made this recipe, with S-23, it dropped so clear that I actually got specific mention for its clarity in a beer comp.
your mot making me feel better :headhit:
Last edited by shibolet on 18 Jan 2012, 15:22, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
shibolet wrote:so i'v had this lagering in a glass carboy for about 2 months.
Is the carboy your primary or secondary shib?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 19 Jan 2012, 21:06, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
PistolPatch wrote:
shibolet wrote:so i'v had this lagering in a glass carboy for about 2 months.
Is the carboy your primary or secondary shib?
carboy was the secondary.
it's now in a keg. maybe it will clear a bit more while it carbonates.
otherwise i'll just call it a Kellerbier and serve it in a ceramic mug.
Last edited by shibolet on 19 Jan 2012, 21:16, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #15 made 12 years ago
by stux
shibolet wrote:
PistolPatch wrote:
shibolet wrote:so i'v had this lagering in a glass carboy for about 2 months.
Is the carboy your primary or secondary shib?
carboy was the secondary.
it's now in a keg. maybe it will clear a bit more while it carbonates.
otherwise i'll just call it a Kellerbier and serve it in a ceramic mug.
I love kellerbier :)
Last edited by stux on 20 Jan 2012, 15:34, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #16 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
just drew the first pint of this beer. and than another... and then another.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #20 made 11 years ago
by 2trout
PP,

Its Lagering season in my garage(I think), and I'm thinking about brewing your recipe. Do you have a Temp scheme and times for this brew? My garage typically runs around 35-36F/2C.

Thanks in advance!

trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #21 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Morning Trout,

Let's say you are going to use a dry yeast for this one - Saflager w34/70. While this can be fermented at anywhere between 9 and 15 C, I chill to 7 C and then pitch. Then I let it ferment at 9 C.

I leave it at 9C for 14 days and then let it rise up to about 13 C over three days. After that, I'll drop it down by a few degrees per day until I get to zero. After a week at zero, I'll keg it.

All the above, including the crash-chilling is done in the primary. If I was bottling, I'd go to secondary at the ten day mark and then bottle at say three weeks. (The rising of the wort to 13C is regarded as being unnecessary if you pitch low. I do it anyway as I'm lucky enough to have a temp controlled fermenting fridge.)

I think the key points, for me anyway, are pitching slightly lower than the fermenting temp and fermenting at the low end of the range.

Have fun Trout!
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Post #22 made 11 years ago
by 2trout
Got it! So Ill ferment in the currently unheated studio in the garage. Move to the unheated bedroomup stairs(slightly warmer), and then to the COLD garage. Im gonna work with what I got!

trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
    • BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America

Post #23 made 9 years ago
by DanIAm
I was going to give your version a try. but... I've got Dave Law and Beshlie Grimes "The homebrew Handbook" in front of me, I'll give their recipe a try, see if I want to try their other recipes if a this compares in a blind taste of some shop bought helles.

I'll bung it into Biabacus and load it up on brew day.

But basically they go for
og:1048
Volume: 23L

Pilsner malt: 3.6kg
Munich malt: 113g
Carafoam: 340g
Vienna malt: 340g.

Hallertauer Mittelfrueh: 31g at 60 minutes
Hallertauer Mittelfrueh: 15g at 15 minutes
Saaz: 15g at 1 minute

Yeast: Wyeast bohemian lager 2124
fg: 1010
abv: 5%

Post #24 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
The general principle of the recipe looks fine Dan :peace:.

But... :)

- By the look of it, the volume of 23 litres will probably mean 'Volume at Flame-Out' so on the first line of Section D type in 22.55L for VAW.
- Any recipe that does not give the AA% of the hops used straight away, shoots itself in the foot....

31 grams of Hallertau Mittlefraugh at 60 minutes is not enough information. For example, in this years crop of one German hop and I actually think it is Hallertau, depending on which region it is coming from, it has anywhere from around 2% to 8% alpha acids. I have never heard of a discrepancy this large before but discrepancies of 30% to 40% are not uncommon from year to year. You must know the IBU' of the hops used in the original recipe.

They haven't supplied an IBU figure so you'll get no help there either. Unfortunately, this is what I would call a low integrity recipe as it can't be duplicated safely.

:sad:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Sep 2014, 22:57, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #25 made 9 years ago
by DanIAm
Hey PP, You have made me pause for a second which aint a bad thing.

I can work out a target IBU for Helles and adjust the hops accordingly, this recipe is close and will make my 2nd point of reference (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f57/munich- ... ell-83056/)

With the volume, they are sparging (10 litres for mash, 10 litres for sparge, no further top up for the boil). So they said that it's to be topped up to to 23 liters in the Fermentor, all tucked away in an obscure note.

I figured that the grain bill in the recipe was going to be a bit light on as they'd be more efficient (with a sparge), I'll be adjusting the grain bill to get the desired og.

I'm picking up 5 brews worth of ingredients tomorrow, I'll play with it over the course of a few brews and tinker as required. Therefore there is a high integrity recipe coming up, which will be my interpretation of their recipe. I can't taste theirs, so I'll never know how close or far away from it I am and they didn't say which they were cloning. Hopefully, after the 2nd or 3rd brew I'll be closer to ambrosia than swill ;)
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