Hi All,
First Question....
I have a spare legit 50L keg that I wish to BIAB with after I modify it. On eBay I have noticed a few elements that are weld less construction and screw into the side of the keg when a hole has been drilled. They are 10A and are 2200 Watts - will this allow a rolling boil after a time, or do I need a bigger element (15A 3600W) or two of the 2200W?
I Plan to do double batches with the setup by adding more water to the keg before boil (once I remove the bag I want to dunk it into my 40L Rubbermaid cooler with hot water for a while and then tip into 50L keg to get the final volume and boil).
Cheers in advance,
Kuzzy
Post #2 made 15 years ago
Thanks sidurdur,
Was planning to put the element on a timer and use a electric temp controller, so filler her up and let it reach temp while at work or sleeping at night - then brew when I'm ready.
That spreadsheet is great! Using it to bring 40L from 73deg to 100deg takes 43min with a single 2200W element - I could live with that to start with.
Perhaps I could convert the second 50L Keg for BIAB as well and be stuffing around with that during the 43min getting another batch on - quad batch!
Cheers,
Kuzzy
Was planning to put the element on a timer and use a electric temp controller, so filler her up and let it reach temp while at work or sleeping at night - then brew when I'm ready.
That spreadsheet is great! Using it to bring 40L from 73deg to 100deg takes 43min with a single 2200W element - I could live with that to start with.
Perhaps I could convert the second 50L Keg for BIAB as well and be stuffing around with that during the 43min getting another batch on - quad batch!
Cheers,
Kuzzy
Post #3 made 15 years ago
I have a 350,000BTU Pool/Spa heatersigurdur wrote:Hi there kuzzy and welcome to the forum!
Your element may get 50 liters to a boil and perhaps maintain it, but it will take a long time and be very frustrating.
Using a boil time calculator ( http://www.phpdoc.info/brew/boilcalc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) to calculate how long it takes for 40 liters to reach 73°C from 15°C using a 2200W element at 80% efficiency it will take you 92 minutes to reach the target temperature.
I would either add another element (eg. a heat-stick) or brew less amount at a time.
I had some fun with that boil calculator
Last edited by stux on 30 Nov 2010, 13:25, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #4 made 15 years ago
I have exactly what you are thinking of. 50L keg with a 2200W element.
It is quite slow to come up to a boil but doesn't take forever. Biggest was about 30L and it held it at a rolling boil quite nicely.
You could always get an over the side immersion element to help it along to save some time.
If you're in Australia, CraftBrewer sell the elements for about $40.
Cheers, Mat.
It is quite slow to come up to a boil but doesn't take forever. Biggest was about 30L and it held it at a rolling boil quite nicely.
You could always get an over the side immersion element to help it along to save some time.
If you're in Australia, CraftBrewer sell the elements for about $40.
Cheers, Mat.
Post #5 made 15 years ago
Cheers Mat,
I had a look in their shop the other week and almost picked one up - I had to limit what I got / paid for as SWMBO was in the car waiting....
Next trip.
Kuzzy
I had a look in their shop the other week and almost picked one up - I had to limit what I got / paid for as SWMBO was in the car waiting....
Next trip.
Kuzzy
Post #6 made 15 years ago
I'm just looking to set up a 50 litre keg with 3.6kw element and installing a 15amp GPO to run it. Will 3.6kw be over kill or would 2.4kw be better. I would like to double batch in it also in the near future and would buy an over the side for this as well. Have you lads got any pics of your keggle set ups.
Cheers mcgrec
Cheers mcgrec
Post #7 made 15 years ago
3.6kW may be a bit much for single batches???. Maybe 2 x 2200W elements might be better then you can turn one off.
Here's some pics of mine. Only a couple though.
Here's some pics of mine. Only a couple though.
Last edited by matr on 17 Jan 2011, 20:32, edited 5 times in total.
Post #8 made 15 years ago
I do not believe that this calculator takes the heat of vaporization into account. This could be important because the amount of heat needed to heat water from t0 to 100 degrees C is not the same as the amount of heat to take water from t0 to boil. But I feel that this calculation could get very messy because you are not necessarily boiling the entire mass at once and would have to do some kind of transient analysis.sigurdur wrote:Hi there kuzzy and welcome to the forum!
Your element may get 50 liters to a boil and perhaps maintain it, but it will take a long time and be very frustrating.
Using a boil time calculator ( http://www.phpdoc.info/brew/boilcalc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) to calculate how long it takes for 40 liters to reach 73°C from 15°C using a 2200W element at 80% efficiency it will take you 92 minutes to reach the target temperature.
I would either add another element (eg. a heat-stick) or brew less amount at a time.
I guess the better question would be, how close is that calculator to actual time measured to boil?
Last edited by mikemoss on 17 Mar 2011, 04:08, edited 5 times in total.
Post #9 made 14 years ago
I'm planning my BIAB rig now. With respect to heating elements, I have a question.
It appears to me there's a real risk for scorching the wort with electic heat. Are there design considerations for preventing this possibility? What to you guys do to insure this isn't a problem?
Cheers...
It appears to me there's a real risk for scorching the wort with electic heat. Are there design considerations for preventing this possibility? What to you guys do to insure this isn't a problem?
Cheers...
Post #10 made 14 years ago
Howdy all,
I've been using gas fired for my first few batches but am thinking of heading to electric.
I take it all you keggle owners with elements use a false bottom to prevent the bag from burning on the element?
Cheers
Mr W
I've been using gas fired for my first few batches but am thinking of heading to electric.
I take it all you keggle owners with elements use a false bottom to prevent the bag from burning on the element?
Cheers
Mr W
Post #11 made 14 years ago
i use a 65 liter kettle with two 1500W elements. no false bottom, no cake rack.
never has any scorching issues.
never has any scorching issues.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #12 made 14 years ago
I have made this vessel http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=592 with 3000W ellement and is good also I dont use any protective racks.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Greece
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Post #13 made 14 years ago
matr: what's with the stainless tube? is that how the element comes or is it inside of the tube?
MoRdAnTlY [Mr. Wolf '91 - '11]
Post #14 made 14 years ago
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #15 made 14 years ago
Hi Guys
I'm planning on building a keggle very similar to this, with the electric element.
I wonder how much of an effect the tap/thermowell/element will have on whirlpooling though and if this is a significant hindrance to this kind of keggle design. The bent intake pipe in the photo above might ensure pickup is fairly clean regardless of the turbulence created by all these pipes?
I'm planning on building a keggle very similar to this, with the electric element.
I wonder how much of an effect the tap/thermowell/element will have on whirlpooling though and if this is a significant hindrance to this kind of keggle design. The bent intake pipe in the photo above might ensure pickup is fairly clean regardless of the turbulence created by all these pipes?
Post #16 made 14 years ago
kahlerisms,
Don't worry about whirlpooling! I know that most people starting out (me included) think that they must separate the trub from the wort perfectly. This is not true. Whirlpooling is rarely successful at the best of times. It is ineffective for the majority of the time. I no chill (N/C) everything. Trub (hot and cold break) hop residue. All goes into the cube and it is separated (mostly) when I decide to ferment.
Build you keggle to your liking without thinking of whirlpooling. I have a temperature probe and my pickup tube that have little or no effect on my attempts to whirlpool. Good luck with everything!
Don't worry about whirlpooling! I know that most people starting out (me included) think that they must separate the trub from the wort perfectly. This is not true. Whirlpooling is rarely successful at the best of times. It is ineffective for the majority of the time. I no chill (N/C) everything. Trub (hot and cold break) hop residue. All goes into the cube and it is separated (mostly) when I decide to ferment.
Build you keggle to your liking without thinking of whirlpooling. I have a temperature probe and my pickup tube that have little or no effect on my attempts to whirlpool. Good luck with everything!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #17 made 14 years ago
Good Day, to toss some new info into the fire, check the Basic Brewing Radio episode "Trub Experiment Results"....
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
or for the .MP3...
http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/ ... rubres.mp3
You will find that trub can, maybe or do nothing to the finished beer.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
or for the .MP3...
http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/ ... rubres.mp3
You will find that trub can, maybe or do nothing to the finished beer.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #18 made 14 years ago
Thanks Bob. I think I was just after a little reassurance that whirlpooling wasn't a critical step.BobBrews wrote:kahlerisms,
Don't worry about whirlpooling!
I no chill (N/C) everything. Trub (hot and cold break) hop residue. All goes into the cube and it is separated (mostly) when I decide to ferment.
I guess that's the next thing I have to think about - cooling my wort after the boil. I have a bunch of 17L cubes of fresh wort, but ideally I'd like to be fermenting 20-21L batches which will give me 19L of sediment free beer for kegs.
Am I worrying too much about these "lost" two or three litres?
Could I no chill in the keg in the first place and get those two litres back? From what I understand the theory behind no chilling is just to have an airtight container - my kegs are air tight!
Last edited by kahlerisms on 28 Feb 2012, 05:33, edited 5 times in total.
Post #19 made 14 years ago
You could, theoretically, no-chill in your kegs. However, if you don't fill your kegs to the very top with hot wort you will run the risk of the keg wall collapsing as the airspace cools.
Brew slightly smaller batches or buy a 20 litre plastic jerry can from Aussie disposals for $15 and no chill in that.
Brew slightly smaller batches or buy a 20 litre plastic jerry can from Aussie disposals for $15 and no chill in that.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #20 made 14 years ago
Aah, simply buying bigger plastic cubes sounds like the smartest and simplest option. Thanks
So forgive me for the silly question, but "no chilling" is basically putting your (very) hot wort into an air tight container to allow it to cool naturally with no exposure to air, correct? It just saves effort/expensive on cooling plates/counterflow systems/etc, right?
So forgive me for the silly question, but "no chilling" is basically putting your (very) hot wort into an air tight container to allow it to cool naturally with no exposure to air, correct? It just saves effort/expensive on cooling plates/counterflow systems/etc, right?
Post #21 made 14 years ago
Absolutely correct, simple easy and cheapkahlerisms wrote: So forgive me for the silly question, but "no chilling" is basically putting your (very) hot wort into an air tight container to allow it to cool naturally with no exposure to air, correct? It just saves effort/expensive on cooling plates/counterflow systems/etc, right?
Last edited by hashie on 28 Feb 2012, 11:32, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #22 made 14 years ago
And allows you to put off adding yeast until you're ready to
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #23 made 13 years ago
g day everyone, just finishing building my electric keggle with 2200 watt element. have test tried bring 39 ltrs to mash from 21 degrees and this took 50 mins with lid on. from there to boiling was another hour with lid on. after taking lid of it drops of boil to what i would call a simmer or maybe week boil ? not good enough ! if i add another 1500 watt or 2200 watt element i would need to run of different circut. any other ideas out there? cheers.
Post #24 made 13 years ago
You don't want to be thrashing the shit out of your boil.
I'm not an expert by any means but I've read a couple of times that too vigorous a boil will damage the proteins in the beer. if your boil is sufficient that all of your wort is at 100degrees and all of your wort is moving around, I think that's sufficient.
I'm happy enough with my 2200W keggle.
I'm not an expert by any means but I've read a couple of times that too vigorous a boil will damage the proteins in the beer. if your boil is sufficient that all of your wort is at 100degrees and all of your wort is moving around, I think that's sufficient.
I'm happy enough with my 2200W keggle.
Post #25 made 13 years ago
Try insulting the outside of your keggle with something, perhaps that'll be the little extra you need to get a good rolling boil? (That's all the help I can offer, I'm running a 5500W 240V rig)
---Todd
---Todd
WWBBD?
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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