How to: Install a valve/thermometer?

Post #1 made 15 years ago
Good afternoon.
Been looking for quite some time after a detaild guide or anything like it, regarding to 'how to install a vavle/thermometer on a vessel', without any success.

Can anyone please help? Guides, links, pictures, anything.
I plan to install a vavle and a thermometer on a non-steel 50L pot, and would like to do it well (:

Thanks for the responds.

Post #2 made 15 years ago
Hey Timos,
Ill get some pics of my valve which is installed in my keggle tomorrow.

But for now ,
I drilled a hole in the side and installed the valve with a 'bulk head connector' similar to the one linked below

http://www.stcvalve.com/Fitting/MALE%20 ... NECTOR.jpg

Or you could get someone to weld the valve in

However, im not sure what you mean by non-steel pot tho? You may need to elaborate on what vessel you have exactly ??

Cheers :)
RL
Last edited by redlegger on 05 Jul 2010, 20:34, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #4 made 15 years ago
no worries timos!

was pondering how you were going to heat a non-steel pot... lol

mine is about 2 inches up from the base of my keg, this leaves me with about 1-2 ltrs of crap in the bottom after draining.
this works for me (combined with whirlpool), however other members may do theirs differently and im sure they also will respond :)

another option is to use an auto siphon, see link below, this will save you drilling holes (i havent seen a tap used on a stove-top pot? i havent seen everything by a long shot tho :) ) and having to clean the valve and threads etc

http://biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... phon#p1267
Last edited by redlegger on 05 Jul 2010, 21:36, edited 6 times in total.
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.”Dave Berry

Post #5 made 15 years ago
I added a weldless thermo and sight-glass/Tap on my smaller pot before I upgraded to a pre-fitted setup.

There are plenty of sites around that talk about it, but one that I purchased from and has great instructions is http://weldlessfittings.com/installation.html.

Steel is a pain to drill, and depending upon the actual fitting you need a different sized hole for each. That said, it is possible if you go slowly and make sure you use a drill bit designed for hard steel. A pilot hole also helps.

I used the Irwin Unibit (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200307294) that you can find in most tool stores. It allows you to carve out progressively larger holes till it fits and gives a very nice, clean cut edge.

I have seen it said that you should not have them above each other or below the handles as there would be too many stress points in one line, but Blichmann does anyway on their pro pots so it may not matter, esp since you probably should not be lifting a 50L pot by the handles when full.

Building a draw tube is another alternative, as this will act as a built in syphon. The draw tube on my 50L kettle, leaves about 1/2pint of trub at the end, vs about 2 pints in the valve only.

If you locate the valve too low, you will probably want to put a heat shield under it when heating, so the valve does not become too hot to work.

Post #6 made 15 years ago
Hi there Timos,

My first and only bit of advice is, "Don't do it."

The worst thing I have ever done is drilled holes in my two kettles...

1. An inbuilt thermometer will not give you accurate temperatures unless you stir the mash which you should be doing anyway. In other words, unless you stir, they give very inaccurate readings. They are also very hard to calibrate. If you want to incorporate an automated stirring system (which involves a pump) then you are spending a lot on something that will cost you hours and hours to keep properly clean let alone anywhere near sterile. The higher up the chain you introduce a lack of integrity in cleanliness and sanitisation, the more it costs in cleaning and, brewing Gods forbid, tracking down and eliminating infection sources.

2. A kettle tap allows no flexibility for clear volumes. Whether you single or double-batch, you will always "claim" the same losses to trub etc. More so, it creates a huge haven for bacteria. Most of the time, this is fine as the tap often gets quite hot. On many systems though, during the boil, you can actually hold your hand against the body of the tap so, it is actually at the perfect incubation temp for bacteria. It is often the last considered source of infection whereas it should be the first.

The best thing to come across brewing in the last 10 years will be Wizard's SS auto-syphon if he manages to make and then sell it. Go Wizard!

Cheers Timos,
Pat
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Post #7 made 15 years ago
rogerd wrote: Building a draw tube is another alternative, as this will act as a built in syphon. The draw tube on my 50L kettle, leaves about 1/2pint of trub at the end, vs about 2 pints in the valve only.
Hi there rogerd,

Can you give some more detail on the above statement? I might be hoping for a bit much but the words syphon and kettle anywhere close to each other always attract my interest :). Hope it is not asking too much but have you got any pics as well?

Many thanks,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Jul 2010, 23:31, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #8 made 15 years ago
PP,

The best I can do is point you at the Blichmann site where they have pictures of the "dip tube" they attach to the kettle valve. http://www.blichmannengineering.com/boi ... maker.html See the last of the pictures (7 of 7 ) in the top right slideshow.

Their implementation is really sweet, as the tube is removable with a silicon washer to make it airtight when in place. That means that you get a straight thru path for cleaning and they include the brush.

This is a natural syphon effect as the end of the dip tube is about 7.5 mm from the bottom of the kettle. It is theregore gravity started by the head in the kettle.

For a DIY version, I have seen people make them out of copper pipe and joints with a compression nut for removal etc. There is also one you can retrofit to a keggle/kettle. e.g. http://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-st ... _1375.html

It really is wonderful, as there is virtually no liquid left in the kettle. I also feed from the valve with high temp tubing so I can see when the wort starts to get cloudy, but I am not that much of a perfectionist to care about cloudiness or color - just taste and volume.

Just before I attach the tubing, I use a no-rinse sanitizer on the outside of the valve and tube and then drop the sanitized tube into the no-chill barrel.

I understand this may not be the panacea you are looking for - I would love a SS syphon too but the airfare to visit would kill my brew budget for the decade - but it can be engineered. To avoid majortrub problems, I use a hop spck for the pellets and a home-made false bottom with a hole for the dip tube to go through.

Hope that help. I will try to get pictures soon

Roger

Post #9 made 15 years ago
Timos,

I am a bit of a literalist, so my first instinct is to answer the question rather than make you rethink, but I have to agree with PP regarding the "Don't do it" advice.

If you have a very understanding spouse who will let you replace the kettle or patch the hole in your leg from the slipped drill or are just plain crazy like me and love to dabble, then go ahead, but it is not a simple drill a hole, but a labour of love and discovery.

I am actually considering removing the inbuilt thermo, as I usually have 2 others in place - a digital for distance viewing and a long stem analog that I can move around. If I put all 3 probes in the same area, there can be as much as 20F reading range between them, and so I actually rely on the built-in unit less than the others.

In addition, I have worrying about catching the bag on the probe that sticks out 3 inches into the kettle. I almost tore it on the second brew on Saturday.

I would second the PP advice on learning your system, as the system losses and temperature characteristics are still eluding me. I only have 5 BIAB under the belt and 10 Extract, so I have not yet gained enough experience with my own gear, but know it is important. If I change it too often, I find I have lost control of the process and cannot redo it like the last time.

I wish I had pictures from last weekend, but I declared a brew day and spent most of the time chating with people with various levels of brewing knowledge while I tried to demonstrate that I had at least read the commentary part of this site.

Roger





Roger

Post #10 made 15 years ago
Last thought for the day (from me).

The valve did have some major benefit when I miscalculated the capacity of the brew. I got cocky and tried a 16lb (7.5kg) grain bill in a 10 Gal (38L) kettle.
* First I made the mistake of milling over the kettle as I had no spare buckets. The flour stayed on the bottom and burnt and added an hour of soak/scrub.
* Then I found the grain took up the entire kettle, but still managed to sneak in 7.8 of the 8G required (see I was way too cocky)
* Then I started to heat the water and it expanded and ran over the edge. burning on the outside. And this was just to Mash-in.

At bag removal I could not lift the bag correctly, even with the hoist in place, as the bag shape made (hot!)wort spill on my legs if it got above the rim, so that is where the kettle valve came in.

I drained the kettle thru the bottom valve to my smaller kettle as I let the bag drip, then moved the bag out and used the valve on the smaller kettle, to feed it back into the larger one.

I would still recommend getting the right shape bag, using a right-sized recipe and not trying to be too cocky, but This is mainly fun for me and I get to drink the results.

Let us know what you end up doing.
Roger

Post #11 made 15 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:

The best thing to come across brewing in the last 10 years will be Wizard's SS auto-syphon if he manages to make and then sell it. Go Wizard!

Cheers Timos,
Pat
Your making me blush PP :lol:
I was going to PM you about the progress of the syphons, I had a big break through today and am hoping to have two of them done by the weekend (fingers crossed).
Last edited by wizard78 on 06 Jul 2010, 17:14, edited 6 times in total.
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]

[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]

Post #12 made 15 years ago
Well PP, no doubt you made me re-think my intentions.

The 37lt (not 50lt apparently) stainless-steel pot will arrive next week, and now I'm confused :roll:

Hmm.. You suggest to keep with my 'old fashion' equipment, which means - an handy thermometer and a nice siphon to do the job?

Can you please explain with more details about the SS siphon, as there are already auto siphon out there, so I would glad to know the difference.

Thanks!

Post #13 made 15 years ago
wizard78 wrote: Your making me blush PP :lol:
I was going to PM you about the progress of the syphons, I had a big break through today and am hoping to have two of them done by the weekend (fingers crossed).

Sorry for the hijack.

I really want one of these Wizard!

Please let me know when you are in a position to sell one.

Cheers
Gavin
Last edited by hashie on 07 Jul 2010, 06:39, edited 6 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #14 made 15 years ago
Hi there Timos,

Scuse the slow reply but I have been wondering about my last post since I wrote it and only just now had a chance to re-read it. I am actually pretty happy with it (despite one major grammatical error!).

I really don't like taps for the reasons I outlined above. But, plenty of brewers use them without problems so my dislike of them should be not taken as gospel. I think though that many brewers think more equipment is better. This is natural and I have done it.

More equipment always means more cleaning though. The only way that I would consider incorporating a tap now is if I wanted to incorporate a pump into my brewery. I have never been tempted to do this, was given a free pump and actually gave it away because I saw it would cost me extra time and a whole lot more sanitisation problems. I hated giving that pump away but I think it was the right decision. My "brewhouse" is far more efficient (labour and grain-wise without it.)

The big problem that having no tap on a kettle leaves is having to use a syphon. Existing plastic auto-syphons are fine (buy the smaller diameter one as the larger ones often stall), but they break easily and you cannot use them with hot water or boiling wort.

Wizard's SS auto-syphon is something that I have been wishing for, for ages and have a few files on this computer concerning it!!! SS means stainless steel so it won't bend or melt with hot wort and will last a lifetime.

I think and hope that Wizard's masterpiece will be...

1. Super-easy to clean.
2. Break in two to facilitate the above and postage. (Cleaning/posting long things is annoying.)
3. Have a clip that allows the brewer to firmly hold the syphon at any depth of the kettle. This means that you can lower the syphon into your brew until it hits cloudy wort and then raise it a tad. So, you get clear wort whether you are doing a single, double batch etc.

If Wizard can do the 3 things above, then a lot of us will be happy brewers. By the sounds of his post above he has just had a breakthrough!

Now what's this about you getting a 37 L instead of a 50 L pot???

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Jul 2010, 02:05, edited 7 times in total.
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Post #15 made 15 years ago
PP, that's a one hell of a replay :)

You really convinced me not to drill an hole for the tap, also, neither the thermometer nor anything else.
"Keep it simple" he sais, and also right, I guess.
As I also won't use a pump (for the same reasons you've mentiond above) I think I officially decide - no drilling.

The 50L pot got smaller due to a budget issues, as I'm about to renew my equipment (pot, fermentors, bottles, crates and more) and plan to build a brewing-stand from scratch.

Post #16 made 15 years ago
Timos,
I use an electric pot that came complete with a tap. i can't imagine not having a tap on my kettle.
I idea of handling boiling wort with any type of siphon scares the shit out of me.
i connect a heavy duty food grade hose to the tap and let the wort run into my no-chill cube.
i guess if you were to chill your wort after the boil and than siphon it into the fermenter, that would be a different story.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #17 made 15 years ago
One more thing (although i may be too late).
I would save the money on that new 37L SS pot and get a larger 50L aluminium pot.
the price deference is huge. and the aluminium is also much easier to drill a hole in.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #19 made 15 years ago
Timos wrote:Shibolet, what is the exact type of heavy-duty siphon that you have?
it's not a siphon, it's just a hose that i connect to the tap at the bottom of my kettle.
Last edited by shibolet on 13 Jul 2010, 03:19, edited 6 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #20 made 15 years ago
That hose?
Image
Is that the thermometer we were talking about?
Image
Does it floats?

That's a great solution if so.
Where did you get it from?
Last edited by Timos on 13 Jul 2010, 23:46, edited 6 times in total.

Post #22 made 15 years ago
Hi gibbo, I don't know of any one who sells them, however I am making one for PistolPatch and myself. If it all works out to plan and is cost effective I may do a batch for people that are interested.
Cheers
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]

[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]

Post #23 made 15 years ago
Timos wrote:PP, that's a one hell of a replay :)

You really convinced me not to drill an hole for the tap, also, neither the thermometer nor anything else.
"Keep it simple" he sais, and also right, I guess.
As I also won't use a pump (for the same reasons you've mentiond above) I think I officially decide - no drilling.

The 50L pot got smaller due to a budget issues, as I'm about to renew my equipment (pot, fermentors, bottles, crates and more) and plan to build a brewing-stand from scratch.
Sorry about the slow reply Timos. When I get on the forum I seem to start from the latest post and work backwards :).

Shame about the 50L pot getting smaller. It's always hard trying to work out where to spend money first :roll:. Looking forward to seeing pics of your stand!

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jul 2010, 22:03, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #24 made 15 years ago
gibbo1 wrote:Hi all, a SS auto syphon sounds great, but personally I could get by with a plastic one as I only syphon cooled wort. Who sells these?

Thanks.
Howdy gibbo,

The plastic syphons are great. I have had a heap but before I tell you where to get them from consider...

1. You need to get the correct diameter. The large diameter ones are a PITA. They often stop sucking and are always too fast for any good control.

2. You need to be aware that they become brittle and / or can break easily. I have the remains of about four broken ones here.

3. As you are aware, they can't handle hot liquids.

Despite the above, I think they are brilliant. You should be able to find one by asking at your local home brew shop (they are often used for wine) or by searching for, "Auto Siphon." Here is one linkthat includes a video which could possibly be the most uninformative video ever :).

Make sure you buy the 5/16 " one, not the 1/2 " one.

That will keep you going until Wizard creates his masterpiece. If he is able to (and I know he will), it is going to be my favourite bit of brewing equipment.

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jul 2010, 22:05, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #25 made 15 years ago
Hey guys. I've finished with the pot thing, just wanted to let you know. Here's a picture of the pot with the drilled tap.
*No more drilling PP ;)
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