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Post #101 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Sorry mate, only just caught your last post.

Most of this is alreadys set up and the calculations automated in metric.

New users will be encouraged to input figures into all the highlighted cells in Brew History.

As for the top two highlighted ones, ('Kettle Trub and Buffer' and 'Fermenter Trub') I can't see any problem with moving these highlights to 'Volume into Fermenter' and 'Volume into Kegs/Bottles' and deriving the trub from those. Might even look better as well I think. Yep, definitely.

As mentioned above, I already have it set up so the fields are calculated when figures are inputted into the highlighted rows. For example, the evaporation rate is automatically calculated once you have put in 'Start of Boil Volume (Hot)' and 'End of Boil Volume - Hot'.

Makes sense?
:peace:
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #102 made 14 years ago
by stux
Pat wrote:Sorry mate, only just caught your last post.

Most of this is alreadys set up and the calculations automated in metric.

New users will be encouraged to input figures into all the highlighted cells in Brew History.

As for the top two highlighted ones, ('Kettle Trub and Buffer' and 'Fermenter Trub') I can't see any problem with moving these highlights to 'Volume into Fermenter' and 'Volume into Kegs/Bottles' and deriving the trub from those. Might even look better as well I think. Yep, definitely.

As mentioned above, I already have it set up so the fields are calculated when figures are inputted into the highlighted rows. For example, the evaporation rate is automatically calculated once you have put in 'Start of Boil Volume (Hot)' and 'End of Boil Volume - Hot'.

Makes sense?
:peace:
Yep,

I did have a fiddle with switching it to be based on Volume into Ferment and Volume into Kegs...

BUT I think it actually does work better entering the trub volumes, it keeps it so you complete section before moving on otherwise you need to enter values in the fermenter section to complete the kettle section, etc.

I've had an idea how to simplify the galon/L conversions... working on it.
Last edited by stux on 08 Jul 2011, 18:46, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #103 made 14 years ago
by Pat
(I hate IE but have to use it occassionally. It randomly logs me out of BIABrewer.info usually when I have written a reply and press submit. Here I go again!)

Stux,

Good on you mate on the metric stuff!

Don't worry about the trub versus volume thing too much as brewers will have access to these two figures at identical times of the brewing day i.e. after transfer. Choose whatever you think is most practical for the brewer or that looks neatest. A lot of calcs won't derive in Brew History until you put in a value a lot higher up the screen. If you plug in some figures (shaded cells only, of course) you'll see what I mean. This is no problem.

Just recieved your PM - have fun moving your friend's house :lol:

Hope he gives you beer!
Pat
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #104 made 14 years ago
by stux
sigurdur wrote:
stux wrote:I've had an idea how to simplify the galon/L conversions... working on it.
Please don't remove the decimal point workaround. It is very important that it remains for people in countries with decimal comma separator as all the conversions will not work without it.
No, not that :)

I've implemented the idea into this sheet I'm about to upload...

Basically, there are now some named ranges

"Vs_Need_Conv_L" contains references to all the L/Gal fields on the Vs tab which need to be updated on switch!

That range refers to Vs_History_Need_Conv_L

I've also add _C, _CM and _KG

C/F, CM/Inch are implemented for the sheet and the history!

But I haven't done the KG conversion, as I don't actually currently have to do a KG conversion on switch.

To implement this properly the conversion factor should be pulled in from the sheet into vba just like the conv_gal factor is, but I've run out of time.

Anyway, uploading the sheet, but I haven't checked it thoroughly

History Efficiencies are not working yet in non-metric history land... but that will come after I fix up the KG conversions.

Maxi-BIAB Calculator Jul08.xls
As for the fields that users should not enter any value into, what about having the text dark-grey instead of black? That way the fields will be similar to disabled text fields in programs and on the web.
Could work well
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Last edited by stux on 08 Jul 2011, 19:46, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #105 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Sig,

Howdy! I'll have to research your Google Code thing etc as I know nothing about this sort of stuff :scratch: .

As for the layout, I'm going to work on this for now while you guys do all the maths and computer stuff. When I get a draft done that I think will work, I'll add in all your formulas etc and then post it up for comment.

I think we came close to a blueprint (or at least enough stuff to keep us busy for a few days) in the last couple of days. I'd say it is somthing like this...

1. Fix Brew History calcs so they work in metric/us/english. I think stux is going to have a crack at this.

2. Make the calculated cells protected. Create an 'Advanced' button that stops calulated cells from being edited: Stux has posted that this can't be done but maybe you might be able to find a way around this?

3. Create a 'Recipe Report' button that will use the fields from the spreadsheet to create a .txt file that can be posted on forums when swapping recipes. Is this easy? Do you want to do it? :lol: The BIABrewer Recipe Template could be used for practice but I want to change that template as my next priority.

4. Pat to work on layout for now - independently of this thread until satisfactory draft is ready.

5. Make a decision on whether we add style guide to the BIABCalc or whatever :P so as the gravity hop chart will show style and your dot.

There's more but I'm actually totally worn out tonight so I'll re-read the last few days posts and add to the blueprint list above tomorrow if that's okay. Be good to get some answers on 2, 3 and 5 above so as we do know where we can go!

Take it easy sig :peace:
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #106 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Stux,

Have just done some quick corrections on your last sheet.

1. I have re-shaded some cells down the bottom as I want the user to be recording things such as strike temps, mash volumes etc so as they become aware of their equip.

2. I got rid of the 'black stripes'

3. Put a border on the right of the Actual column.

Cheers!

P.S. No unshading of cells okay :lol: (I need them for the guide ;) )
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Post #107 made 14 years ago
by smyrnaquince
I'm attaching an image which shows the four colours I thought worked well for cell hiliting
They look good to me.

Not convinced that "Grain Dry Volume" or "Grain Dry Displacement" is actually an "advanced" thing. Its a very useful bit of information for all brewers to have...
Agree, especially if you are using a marginally-sized pot.

However, a single brew should never update automatically any of the 'Estimate Fields'. The new brewer must do five brews to get an average if that makes sense.
Although I agree with the math (five brews for a meaningful average), I would still like to see the average evolve over time because I would find it interesting to see how it is going. Also, you are implicitly saying that I must brew *the same beer* five times before I can see an average--I like to brew a variety, not the same one over and over again.

So, my point boils down that the user should only be expected to enter the Pre, Post, Fermenter and Packaged Volumes (and relevant gravities) and we should be able to derive the evaporation correction factor and trub percentages.
Agree. I think it would be easiest to measure these volumes vs. the alternatives.

BUT I think it actually does work better entering the trub volumes
Except for people like me who have a spigot in the fermenter bucket and leave the fermenter tilted away from the spigot for three weeks. After I transfer to the bottling bucket, I would have to try to level out the trub to measure its depth to get its volume. I would rather measure the volume of trub + beer.
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 08 Jul 2011, 20:18, edited 5 times in total.

Post #108 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Hi smyrna,

The average does evolve over time (in the far right column) so all is good there. The 'Estimates' pre-calculated fields must be changed manually though and this is for a reason. New brewers shouldn't fiddlle with these figures unless they know why they are doing it. Adjusting the figure after each brew will cause them all sorts of problems.

You are correct that new brewers will be encouraged to do similiar batch sizes for their first brews. By the time they have done five they will have read enough stuff etc to know how to make sensible changes when adjusting their estimates.

The reality of what brewers will actually do will be totally differnt of course :P but the aim of BIABrewer.info is to give them a safe path to steer by.

;)
Pat
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #109 made 14 years ago
by stux
You can protect cells, moreso you can dynamically unlock them via a macro. But I believe you have to then protect the spreadsheet, which I think you can do with a blank password if you want

Sorry about the unshading, was part of the process that I didn't get to finish
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #110 made 14 years ago
by smyrnaquince
For: Maxi-BIAB Calculator Jul08(1).xls

I'm getting some weirdness in the Gravity/Hops Ratio chart. It extends from Column E to halfway through K, as before, but the data plot (rainbow area) is only about 2/3 as wide as it was before. The plot area extends from mid-E to mid-I, where in the previous version it extended mid-E to the first part of Column K.

Post #111 made 14 years ago
by Pat
(No worries stux :P)

Amazing Sig! How quick was that? :o :lol:

Looks like I better give the new recipe template a bit higher priority now :). (I didn't quite understand the empty values bit but am assuming you need some fields named or something?. Had a look at the macro - that must have taken ages to write sig!)

With the shift right button, is it possible that it can clear the Actual column as well?

You guys impress me every time I do another download!
Pat

P.S. I re-wrote the BJCP styles into a usable spreadsheet last night and will write to them for copyright permission. So, this option should become available for us if we want it. If anyone wants the list to work on. let me know.
Last edited by Pat on 09 Jul 2011, 05:12, edited 5 times in total.
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #112 made 14 years ago
by smyrnaquince
Sigurdur--Yes, the Hop Chart looks correct again. Thanks. The copy function in the Brew History is pretty cool. Are you aware that the grain bill and hop bill are not copying, or are you still working on this?

All--There is a field for "Recipe Name" and for "Brewed On" on the main sheet. I think that there should be rows in the Brew History "Actual" column to record these so they would be shifted over along with the other history values. That way you would know the date of each brew in the history and what you brewed on that day.

Post #113 made 14 years ago
by smyrnaquince
sigurdur wrote:smyrnaquince, thanks. :)
I knew about the hop bill and the grain bill, I was just rushing things forward because I was just about to put my kid to sleep .. sorry about that.

Anyway, the grainbill and hopbill things need to be taken a look at, along with everything else.
I don't think we should take matters very much forward in designing it for version 2.0 (only convert weights [if applicable}), but for version 3 I think that it might be smart to have a dropdown and a weight field and a "add to ingredients" button so it gets added as a new line in the ingredients field.
That way there is no static number of maximum ingredients (theoretically yes but it should not matter..) and it should be relatively easy to get those values to the "copy recipe" macro.
I only meant the Copy to Clipboard, not the conversions. And I certainly understand putting kids to bed. You have your priorities straight.

I haven't tried "programming" any of this stuff in the spreadsheet since I added a bunch of automatic conversions to version 1.0, then found about 2.0. You guys are Excel wizards--I just play at it.
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 09 Jul 2011, 08:06, edited 5 times in total.

Post #114 made 14 years ago
by Pat
[center]Please do not undo these changes.*[/center]

One of the major problems I am having is this whole colour thing. It is very hard to find colours that look right and can be applied consistently through all sheets. I think this might be quite hard to get right. I have just had a quick play around with adding grey and it looks crap however I will post it up here for three important reasons...

1. Everyone: Please play around with the colours and see if you can come up with something good. Post it up here when you do. Consider the next point when doing so.

2. Everyone: I have added in a Grain/Hop Sheet Draft. It doesn't have formulas. I just want everyone to start thinking on this side of things and to consider how the colours and their logic will affect the other sheet/sheets depending on whether we decide to combine grain and hops or not. This sheet is also a combo of the BIABrewer.info greens and grey. (Later we can discuss whether to comine grain and hops.)

2. Programmers: Please use this sheet for now as it contains things for you to think and work on. We can modify this later but better to start work on the below now...

a) I have done a quick draft for info that might end up being included at the top.
b) This means some cells can be moved from Estimates to up the top (eg boil time, pot diameter). (Lets leave both for now.)
c) I have added the styles in as another sheet if anyone wants to work on those.
d) Comments are not showing up on some fields. The arrow is but not the box.
e) 'Shift Right' button needs a better label - maybe, 'Add to History'? (I know this is too long.)

I don't know if the mash details at the top are neceesary as we already have Target Mash Temp in the main table but we can leave it there for now as it is unimportant. I think mash notes could be added to a 'Special Recipe Notes or Instructions' note type field at the bottom - in fact, I'll add that in now. Let's leave both for the moment though.

I know that some of you might find it annoying having the extra sheets in but the programming side is running way ahead of the layout side so the slight inconvenience (if any) should be outweighed by the benefits.

Cheers,
Pat

*These formatting changes take quite a long time to put in but can easily undone later. So, please leave them in for now.
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Last edited by Pat on 09 Jul 2011, 12:53, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #115 made 14 years ago
by stux
The important thing is not to back out any changes which have been made to the macros/formula side.

It is virtually impossible to keep track of the hidden code changes if changes/fixes get undone as part of the layout changes.

For example, once I have locked away a chunk of functionality I need to rely on that functionality staying the same way it is, and not have the unpleasant experience of functionality I have fixed needing to be fixed again because the code/changes have been lost.

The problem is the backend stuff is not visible, so you can't easily see if its been removed/deleted/modified by accident
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #116 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Yep, I'm keeping an eye on that so relax :lol:! (eg I haven't moved or changed any formula fields in that last draft and I'll continue not to do so.) I think the key is no one should undo anything (including layout chagnes) until it is agreed or obvious that they need fixing. If needs be, on layout, do as I have done and add another tab for people to consider.

I should have mentioned I added some lists by the way Stu...

LIST_HopTypes
LIST_IBU_Methods

These come from the Notes Tab.

Cheers!
Pat
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #117 made 14 years ago
by stux
Re: Styles Tab

OG FG ABV% IBU SRM

Are going to each need to be split into Min and Max values

ie

Min OG, Max OG, Min FG, Max FG

This is so that we can work with the ranges and then we can also plot the Avg and Current values on the range.

In fact, I know the newer excels support in cell hot charts, which can be used to represent this stuff... again... I'm thinking 3.0...

But if someone wants to run through and convert the styles chart so that there are min/max values for each of the ranges, that'd be really good :)

(ps: be my guest... please! :))
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #118 made 14 years ago
by Pat
Here is a draft to work off for the new BIABrewer.info Recipe Template. Let me know of any improvements bearing in mind it's a fine line between having enough info for any other brewer to use (non-BIAB and BIAB) and posting a book :lol:

[center]BIABRewer.infor Recipe Report for
'Recipe Name'[/center]

OVERVIEW

Style:
End of Boil Volume - Ambient:
Original Gravity:
IBUs (Tinseth):
My Equipment: (Pot Diameter) (Pot Type)

Source/Credits:
Special Notes or Instructions:

Mash and Boil Details

Mash Temperature:
Mash Length (mins):
Boil Length (mins):

Grains

Grain 1: Name, colour, region, etc.
Grain 2:
Grain 3:
etc
Total Grain Bill: Weight giving x Original Gravity

Hops Hop Type: Flowers, Plugs or Pellets

Hop 1: Name, AA% at mins giving Tinseth IBU contribution.
Hop 2:
Hop 3:
etc
Total Hop Bill: weight giving x IBU's

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct:
Mineral:
Finings:

Yeast & Fermentation Details

Yeast:
Primary: degrees for days
Secondary: degrees for days

Volumes, Gravities and Efficiencies

Volume into Kegs/Bottles:
Fermenter Trub:
Volume into Fermenter:
Kettle Trub & Buffer:
Original Gravity:
End of Boil Volume - Hot:
Start of Boil Gravity:
Start of Boil Volume - Hot:
Total Water Required:
Approximate Volume of Mash:

Efficiency into Fermenter:
Mash Efficiency (Pre or Post Boil):
Last edited by Pat on 09 Jul 2011, 14:07, edited 5 times in total.
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #119 made 14 years ago
by stux
Pat wrote:Yep, I'm keeping an eye on that so relax :lol:! (eg I haven't moved or changed any formula fields in that last draft and I'll continue not to do so.) I think the key is no one should undo anything (including layout chagnes) until it is agreed or obvious that they need fixing. If needs be, on layout, do as I have done and add another tab for people to consider.

I should have mentioned I added some lists by the way Stu...

LIST_HopTypes
LIST_IBU_Methods

These come from the Notes Tab.

Cheers!
Pat
Cool.

At the moment, since the original plan was for the Notes tab to disapear I've been putting the lists in my Scratch area on the main tab. There is a macro which can be run to show it, and it gets hidden again each time the sheet is opened.

It may be worthwhile having a specific tab called "Data" or something like that, which would have these miscelanious lists, but at the moment, the scratch area works well, and means we have one less tab

Moving the lists is as easy as dragging them from the one sheet to the other, the Named range will update.
Last edited by stux on 09 Jul 2011, 14:09, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #120 made 14 years ago
by Pat
stux wrote:Re: Styles Tab...

if someone wants to run through and convert the styles chart so that there are min/max values for each of the ranges, that'd be really good :)

(ps: be my guest... please! :))
I thought that might cause you some fun :lol:. You should have seen the original table!!! Took me about an hour and a half just to get it like it is.

I second your proposal - any volunteers?

Data Tab

Good idea. I'll make sure from now on that I let everyone know if I create a list or something but I better leave it to you to put it into the scratch pad. Thanks mate!
Last edited by Pat on 09 Jul 2011, 14:12, edited 5 times in total.
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #121 made 14 years ago
by stux
Just a test

---
OVERVIEW

Style: Strong Scotch Ale (9E)
End of Boil Volume - Ambient: 26.51 L
Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
IBUs (Tinseth): 33.3 IBUs
My Equipment: (Pot Diameter) (Pot Type) 40x40 cm
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #122 made 14 years ago
by stux
Test 2
----
OVERVIEW

Style: Strong Scotch Ale (9E)
End of Boil Volume - Ambient: 26.51 L
Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
IBUs (Tinseth): 33.3 IBUs
My Equipment: (Pot Diameter) (Pot Type) 40x40 cm
Last edited by stux on 09 Jul 2011, 14:28, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #123 made 14 years ago
by stux
Well, I think that works pretty well ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #124 made 14 years ago
by ianh
stux wrote:Re: Styles Tab

OG FG ABV% IBU SRM

Are going to each need to be split into Min and Max values

ie

Min OG, Max OG, Min FG, Max FG

This is so that we can work with the ranges and then we can also plot the Avg and Current values on the range.

In fact, I know the newer excels support in cell hot charts, which can be used to represent this stuff... again... I'm thinking 3.0...

But if someone wants to run through and convert the styles chart so that there are min/max values for each of the ranges, that'd be really good :)

(ps: be my guest... please! :))

That's basically what is in the file I attached in post 94.
Last edited by ianh on 09 Jul 2011, 14:30, edited 5 times in total.

Post #125 made 14 years ago
by Pat
My Equipment will hopefully read as per the following examples...

40cm Pot
15 inch Keg
10 inch Urn
30cm Other

I didn't do a drop down list for Pot/Keg/Urn/Other sorry.

Also see I forgot to 'grey' recipe name and date.

I'll leave you in peace for a while Stu. I'm going to rejuvenate my brain :P
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