point taken.
I think the problem was that one of the smart schmucks thought that no chill would work even better if he stuck the cube in an ice bath after filling.
the boiling wort didn't get a chance to farther sanitize the cube.

Yeah, no chill sort of depends on not chilling the wort to work. Just make sure that every part of the inside of the cube gets a good amount of time submerged, and all will be well.

I regularly have about 3 or 4 cubes sitting in my garage ready to ferment at any time, it helps so much to keep a constant supply of beer going and is far more flexible than having to ferment immediately after each brew.

If you didn't no chill, you would have to grow the yeast first, then a few days later brew your beer all in one hit. I would never get any beer brewed with my schedule if that was the case, but with no chill I can brew any time I want, pitch any time I want, and grow yeast any time I want - the ultimate in brewing flexibility, and less cleaning to boot!

cheers,

Matt

texasranger wrote:Hi All,

Q1/ As no-chill takes quite awhile to cool down the wort, how does this effect hopping schedules?

Q2/ Where there is a fair portion of Pilsner malt in the wort, the aim is to rapid cool it below approx 40~60 degrees Celsius to limit DMS and bi-products, from the material I have read and the procedure I have followed so far. Can anyone comment of their experience's, would be interested in the practical, rather than the theory.

Regards,

Q1/ I don't change the hopping schedule except that if I want hop aroma, I will dry hop rather than add hops at flameout (some say it's much the same result). I feel that adding hops at flameout may not work so well for hop aroma because the wort is hot for a while after flameout.

Q2/ Based only on my own brews, I have no problems with DMS in my lagers or ales using pilsner malt and using no-chill. I gotta say that I have never brewed any method other than no-chill and I have detected DMS in commercial beers but not in mine. I always boil for 90 minutes. I have used both German and Aussie pilsner malt.

Cheers
Dick

Q1 - no change in hopping schedule with the exception of flame out hops moved to adding at kegging by French press method.

Q2 - Long boil will get rid of DMS precursors adequately. A 90 minute boil is recommended for normal beers, and for those with a high DMS precursor content such as Pilsners, I seem to remember Jamil saying on one of his podcasts that 100 minutes will get rid of all of it.

cheers,

Matt

TexasRanger

Q1/ As no-chill takes quite awhile to cool down the wort, how does this effect hopping schedules?

The heat (in the cube) draws the bitterness out of the hops so there is more utilization at the bitter end of the scale. Some people use slightly less hops over all. Late additions can go into the cube as the wort is dumped in. The heat will intensify the bitterness but I suspect the aromatics don’t escape the cube either. For a hoppy beer I dry hop in the primary after all fermentation is over. I no longer use a secondary to dry hop. I French press hops and dump it into the keg or bottling bucket. I also use “Hop Vodka” to “Kick it up a notch” now and then.

To be very honest I don’t worry or adjust for hop utilization anymore. I use a hop bag and I think because it somewhat prevents full utilization (over just dumping the pellets in the wort) that NC’s over utilization balances out?

Q2/ Where there is a fair portion of Pilsner malt in the wort, the aim is to rapid cool it below approx 40~60 degrees Celsius to limit DMS and bi-products,

The DMS (problem?) is a non issue. The good Aussie-folks have been over this question for years. The amount of DMS is undetectable by most (all) brewers. The award winning beers produced by N/C has shown that concerns are unfounded. I think that in large breweries the huge amount of wort to be cooled and the time it would take fostered the idea about DMS. A good long and vigorous boil with modern grains have lowered the DMS precursors to the point of invisibility. At least as far as home brewers are concerned.

hashie wrote:"Dudwieser" :D

I saw on your brew clubs website that you had been selected as a finalist, well done and all the best for the finals. I hope it knocks their socks off!.

Hashie,

We had the finals May 22nd. Our club finished in 1st place. We took a first, fourth, and sixth place. I didn't expect my Saison to place because of the (carbonation issues) but I did get the 6th place. I had over carbonation and I tried to release pressure by lifting the caps a little each day. I (of course) over did it and by the date of the contest it went almost flat. All the judges nicked me on that and it was enough to drop me to 6th. Everything else was super! Funny thing though. I didn't realize until just before the competition that they had a open division. I took a whirl at it with my Bourbon Barrel Porter and won a silver metal! Next year I may have to enter a few more catagories!

Also the beer for next years contest was picked from a hat (I got to pull it) I picked "Cream Ale" any recipes?

I have the one from Jamil's book, but haven't actually made it yet to give an opinion, let me know if you want it posted up.

Matt

BobBrews wrote:
Hashie,

We had the finals May 22nd. Our club finished in 1st place. We took a first, fourth, and sixth place. I didn't expect my Saison to place because of the (carbonation issues) but I did get the 6th place. I had over carbonation and I tried to release pressure by lifting the caps a little each day. I (of course) over did it and by the date of the contest it went almost flat. All the judges nicked me on that and it was enough to drop me to 6th. Everything else was super! Funny thing though. I didn't realize until just before the competition that they had a open division. I took a whirl at it with my Bourbon Barrel Porter and won a silver metal! Next year I may have to enter a few more catagories!

Also the beer for next years contest was picked from a hat (I got to pull it) I picked "Cream Ale" any recipes?

Well done Bob, 6th place is great Imagine where you might have placed had the carbonation levels been right.

I do a very simple Cream Ale, that suits my Summer drinking needs.

100% Pilsner malt to OG 1040
Mt Hood 60 minutes to 17.5 IBU
Mt hood 20 minutes to 5.3 IBU

Danstar Nottingham ale yeast fermented @ 15C

Well done Bob,
can you post your recipe for your Bourbon Barrel Porter ? I have one of my own and i'de like to compare notes.
here's mine: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipa ... &item=8963

Thanks to everyone,
My recipe is here http://www.northernbrewer.com/documenta ... Porter.pdf This is on the Northern brewer web site. You can just print the recipe and brew it with your own supplies. I brewed it in 2007 and have been saving it for myself. I sent it to the "Golden Growler" competition on a whim and won! Don't let then tell you BIAB is not as good as Traditional! BIAB rocks!

I should mention that over a year ago, when I was still doing partial mash brews, I did a full size BIAB all grain brew and split it between four small 5L (about 2 US gallon)cubes. I did that in February and the cubes lasted me till May with no problems.
For each cube of hopped wort, I did a brew with a can of beer kit (usually Coopers Canadian) and 500g of dextrose, fermented with US-05 to make a pale lagerish beer that was actually quite pleasant lawnmower.

That's interesting Joshua, I always thought campden tablets were to stop fermentation by killing the yeast. I'd never have thought you could use them before fermentation and still get active yeast.

I've never heard of them being used post-boil. I have heard of them being used pre-boil, in other words, before grain is even added to the mash to sterilise and de-oxygenise the water.

That is interesting!

iijakii, I used a plastic auto siphon for many brews, before it finally died. I now use a stainless racking cane with silicone tube.

To keep your system simple, I would recommend not putting a tap on your kettle. It will just be more bits to clean and more things that could go wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

Good day to you Joshua as well:),

Glad to hear you are loving BIAB and no-chill and thanks for providing the link above - I just had a look.

I'm someone who is considering no-chilling. I have done a few overnight no-chills in the kettle when inebriation or inconvenience has set in to an extreme and can't see any worries with it. In fact, as I hate having taps on kettles, when wizard makes his stainless steel auto-syphon, I intend to use this method a lot more often.

The hopping question concerned me for a while and I am wondering if the table you kindly linked above might make no-chilling more complicated than it really is?

There are two reasons I ask this...

1. I have a good mate in Queensland, Australia, whose beers I drank many a time before no-chill came out. I rang him and asked him how I should change the hopping schedule of a recipe and he said, "Don't." He said he hadn't noticed any difference and he is regarded as a very good brewer. He brews pretty hoppy beers but his reply did give me more confidence in the method. (I must say the table linked above scares me a bit )

2. I also went to a talk by the head brewer from the, "Little Creatures," brewery here in Western Australia who brew a very popular pale ale. (This recipe is a slightly softer version of this beer.) It was a truly great talk and this guy (from America actually) was hugely enthusiastic about hops. He basically said, "Throw the brewing science and statistics out the window," He gave examples of how none of it really makes sense. (We all ended up actually agreeing with him .)

His main message was that every hop has a personality and that you just have to know how to treat it. Any batch of LCPA (Little Creatures Pale Ale) uses varying quantities of different varieties of hops of different ages and he still manages to get them very close! (Without using 'synthetic' adjustments.)

He obviously has a 'knack' of knowing which hops at what quantities and for how long he should use at varying stages of the boil, or hopback or maybe even dry-hop (I can't remember.)

If you heard him talk, you would have seen this totally enthusiastic brewer who was desperate to teach us the truly amazing world of hopping. This is the thing I remember most and I'll never forget that talk.

I also found it depressing because I am not an artist. His message was to, "get to know each batch and variety of hops, play around with them and get to know how they 'want' to be treated." He actually pretty much said that any hop will do what you want it to do once you 'know' it. He even brought along four varieties of hops they were currently using in LCPA whereas we thought it was all done with one or maybe two.

The above was not very definitive for a non-artist like me but, funnily enough, it was actually very encouraging in the fact that I now no longer believe the "figures" I read on hops. I no longer take them as gospel. I now trust what I taste more than what I expect to taste.

Excuse this long post Joshua. Too often I use the forum environment as more of a, "Notes to Self," facility!

Hope something above resonates with someone.


PP

Good stuff Joshua. I'll look forward to reading more of what you discover.

Excuse last night's essay - the longest post I have done on BIABrewer I think .

well i brewed a new recipe last week.
Weyermann® Smoked Mild (based on a recipe on the Weyermann web site. developed and pilot brewed by Ray Daniels, author of Designing Great Beer for Weyermann)
Brewed it On Tuesday night, no-chilled in a 23 cube and transferred to fermenter on Wednesday afternoon. Fermentation is in a 18C fridge. Fermentation seemed to be complete within two days.
took a small sample yesterday to check the gravity (with a refractometer).

This entire prologue's point is this:
i tasted the sample. it was way bitter than expected.
i hopped the 60 min hop on schedule but added the aroma hops to the cube.
maybe i should have moved the 60 min to 40 min?

Hi Shibolet,
My personal experiances are that samples from fermentation seem to be a fair bit more bitter than when the beer has aged.
Time will tell

I totally agree with wizard, shib. It takes a little while on most brews for things to become, "tame."

I see you used Nottingham yeast. That is a wild thing! I hope your fermenter didn't explode . No matter what the refractometer says, I don't think it will do any harm whatsoever to leave it for at least 7 days. Should be an interesting beer - don't think I have tasted anything like it? Is there a commercial example we might know?

I am such a dud on any beer styles out of the ordinary ,
PP

i love the Nottingham yeast!
only once did i have a blowout. it was an extract oatmeal stout. but mostly it's well behaved.
actually this fermentation went very fast but didn't seem to make much kruesen or trub (as far as i can tell through the plastic pail).
maybe because the OG was low (1044).
this is the my first time brewing this recipe. i found it on the Wayerman website. but i think the HBS guy gave me mostly British malts (including Muntons peated malt). the sample i tasted had a slight smoke flavor. not at all overwhelming or offensive. time will tell.
another thing i just remembered: i added a bit of DAP to the boil. maybe the yeast liked that.

PP, what are your usual run-of-the-mill beers?

We might be getting a bit off-topic here shib but...

I pretty much like tasting all beers (same as wines) but with most beers I would never bother to spend my time brewing or making them. For me, lagers and pilsners are what I throw some energy at occasionally as the flavours of these, when they are good, are subtle or sublime to my palate. (For example, a Budvar has a lot of flavours within it that are delightful to me.)

The other beers I will brew regularly and without having to worry about them at all are dry kolschs and APA's. I'll quaff an IPA readily but I still haven't got a really good recipe as yet. (Most IPA's I find too unbalanced - assaulting.)

I tasted a great beer last year at a beer show here. LloydieP might remember what category it was in and I think it either got a bronze or no place at all. The three of us tasting it thought it was gold though!

Each to his own ,
PP

P.S. This probably should be a whole new topic. We'll leave that to the mods though .