Jamil's Evil Twin

Post #1 made 14 years ago
hey guys,
I'm looking to brew this recipe:
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipa ... &item=9384
the idea is to get a huge hop flavor and aroma without too much bitterness.
A friend said he's brewed this before with no chilling and he will not try no-chill again as the beer was way to bitter and unbalanced.

how would you shift the hop additions if no-chilling?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #2 made 14 years ago
I know little about no-chilling shib,

One of my mates doesn't change any recipe for no-chill. I have done a couple and haven't noticed any bitterness problems so maybe you are going to be stuck with doing a few experiments of your own???

NME no chills and has had some luck with flavour and bitterness using a hop tea if my memory serves me correctly. PM him and ask him to post here. He will.

Looking at that hop schedule, it seems overboard and way out of whack - I can't see much sense in it personally. Compare that hop schedule with this one. They are not even close. The linked one will give you a beautifully balanced APA - a cross between the complexity of Little Creatures Pale Ale and the softness of Little Creatures Bright Ale. I have met the Little Creatures* brewer and he loves American hops. He knows hops and he knows what to do with each one to bring out its best. (I have also chilled and no-chilled the linked recipe and it is always delightful.)

My fear is that with the above hop schedule, it is way, way, too much. There will be no balance in this beer no matter how you make it. I am surprised it is one of Jamil's :o.

It could also be a stage that we brewers go through where we think more is better. "If I like that hop, more will be better." Some of my brewer mates actually brew what they call an APA with heaps of hops. Very occasionally, one of these will win a comp mainly because the judges palates have been obliterated by prior beers. For me they are ugly beers. The first sip or two are sometimes (but not always) splendid and after that your palate is obliterated. You can't taste, savour or enyoy anything. They are not drinkable beers.

For me a drinkable beer must have balance and for me balance means being able to fully enjoy a range of flavours at the same time. Creating a beer that obliterates or overpowers one part of this experience is not a great beer for me.

LloydieP would be another good one to PM though he may not respond. He's a lazy bugger sometimes :lol:

I must say though that any time I have added more hops to an APA it has never turned out as nice as the linked recipe.

Strange but true :scratch:
PP

*They would go broke on that hop schedule!
Last edited by PistolPatch on 03 Nov 2010, 23:34, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
ThePol from Homebrewtalk made this:
Image
I'm not convinced on the necessity of it at all, though. I'm pretty new to no chill and have bastardized American tastes and love hops, so what do I know.
Last edited by iijakii on 08 Nov 2010, 10:46, edited 5 times in total.

Post #4 made 14 years ago
I've never adjusted any of my hop schedules for no-chill. If a recipe calls for hops at 5 minutes, that's when they go in. I do use a hop sock so none of the hops are getting into the cube. Well at least 99% don't.

Also, if I don't brew a recipe as printed, how then do I know whether it needs adjusting or not?
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #5 made 14 years ago
I've been experimenting with this.
i always do a whirlpool for about 20-30 minutes after i shut the urn off. just to let the trub settle (i stopped using a hop sack).
so i figure that an additional 30 minutes in the hot wort and than the time in the cube will certainly extract more isoalpha acids from the hops.
in this recipe, seeing that it is all about "late hop additions", i did 30 grams at 5 minutes, 60 grams into the cube and another 60 gram will be dry hopped.

BTW, i brewed this last night, it's in the cube now and will go into the fermenter tonight. when should i dry hop?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #6 made 14 years ago
Hihi. So sorry I missed this!!

I've never really altered a recipe for no-chill and haven't noticed any real difference. Prior to needing no-chill, I was extract brewing where I'd do a half sized boil, then top it up with pre-boiled chilled water and I honestly haven't noticed a huge bittering difference between then and now.
I started doing the hop tea thing in place of dry hopping and have had nothing but good results, plus there's less to clean up :P

Lastly, my most recent APA was an idea I had from someone doing "10min IPAs" where they basically did all their hop additions at 10mins. I started mine and 20 and did 5 minute "bursts" to the IBU I was happy with. Worked out really nicely and is something I'll play with more in the future :) Actually, my recipe wasn't too different to the one in the link you posted (just had a closer look). I vote for a side by side experiment :P
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
I'll meet you half way for the side-by-side tasting.
could you elaborate on the hop tea technique?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #8 made 14 years ago
Basically you whack the hops in coffee plunger, or even a bowl full of boiling water, leave for 5 minutes then strain into your fermenter/keg. I do this on bottling/keg day prior to getting all my stuff ready to go.
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
And you haven't noticed any difference in aroma? I've heard from some that the aroma is more pleasant in hop-tea in that you don't get grassy tones like you can with dry-hopping. But I've also read some cons to it too, I can't remember what those people were claiming though.

Post #10 made 14 years ago
NME wrote:Basically you whack the hops in coffee plunger, or even a bowl full of boiling water, leave for 5 minutes then strain into your fermenter/keg. I do this on bottling/keg day prior to getting all my stuff ready to go.
do you get biterness or just hop aroma?
this sounds like a good way to limit the amount of hop solids in my fermenter.
Last edited by shibolet on 09 Nov 2010, 15:01, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #11 made 14 years ago
If you use a coffee plunger you will just get the hop juice and my guess is it would only be for aroma.
Last edited by hashie on 09 Nov 2010, 16:24, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #12 made 14 years ago
Here is my contribution to this thread. I use hop Vodka to "Hop-up" my beers. the extraction method is the same except you don't need vodka just water. Take a look anyway. http://www.stempski.com/hop_vodka.php The aroma of my beers (even a already hoppie brew) is enhanced by this tick. You really keep the essence of the hops and not the bitterness.
Last edited by BobBrews on 09 Nov 2010, 20:15, edited 5 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV

Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #13 made 14 years ago
Yeah it just adds aroma, and whatever small amount of bitterness comes out at a 5min boil.

I like your idea Bob :D
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Post #14 made 14 years ago
It would seem to me that no chill would be kind of counter productive for late hop additions. Jamil recommends cooling as quickly as possible to retain the aroma.

I've never tried no chill so I don't know how long it takes to get under 75c but if it takes very long wouldn't you continue to add IBU's and not get the flavor and aroma your looking for?

Post #15 made 14 years ago
BobBrews wrote:Here is my contribution to this thread. I use hop Vodka to "Hop-up" my beers. the extraction method is the same except you don't need vodka just water. Take a look anyway. http://www.stempski.com/hop_vodka.php The aroma of my beers (even a already hoppie brew) is enhanced by this tick. You really keep the essence of the hops and not the bitterness.
An excellent thread as usual Bob.
When do you use your Hop Vodka extract ?
Added to your fermenter ?
Added to your fermenter after a few days ?
Added to your bottling vessel or keg ?
At what rate would you add the extract - how many mls/ounces per litre/per gallon.
I am also addicted to Amarillo !
Last edited by nala on 30 May 2011, 12:58, edited 5 times in total.

Post #16 made 14 years ago
nala,

Really simple as everything I do. I just use it to enhance "A" beer. If I have a Cream ale and I want a little more "oomph" I use a shot of hop vodka. I am not talking about a buzz from alcohol I am talking about a "aroma buzz". To be honest some beers I try to emulate just don't do it for me. I just finished a lager last night. It was a wheat and toasted rye bock. I didn't really care for it that much. A little shot of hop vodka brought it to life. I blew out the keg thanks to a little help from hop vodka. You can cook with beer but when you have 5 gallons you can only eat so much!

If I want a session beer to drink I brew it and drink it that way. If I want a high gravity beer to sip I brew and drink it that way. Sometimes a beer either needs a little extra hops or I do so I "Kick it up a notch" I have added it to a keg of lifeless unexciting beer but generally I just use a shot (or less) in a mug for the hop rush in the nose.

I have tried it with a few other hops that were on sale and they were good too. I just like Amarillo. The first run off of hop vodka is clear the last is a little cloudy (depending on your technique) I would use the cloudy stuff for utility uses (kegging, secondary? ) and the clear per glass. They are fine either way. Try it and let me know? I used my last shot last night when I blew the keg. The next batch will be with a new hop for me "Citra"

Good luck good brewing!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV

Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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