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Question on BIABacus Calculator

Post #1 made 8 years ago
by Scalded Dog
What's the difference between "mash volume" and "volume into kettle" ? What made me ask this question is that when I add 2 gallons of sparge water in that cell it reduces the amount of water needed in the "Mash Volume" cell but "volume into kettle" remains unchanged. Shouldn't adding sparge water reduce the amount of water in the volume into kettle?

Post #5 made 8 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Every volume you enter into Section W is water withheld from the mash. If you mean TWN, that's all the water you will need for your brew day.
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Re: Question on BIABacus Calculator

Post #6 made 8 years ago
by Barge
Scalded Dog wrote:What's the difference between "mash volume" and "volume into kettle" ? What made me ask this question is that when I add 2 gallons of sparge water in that cell it reduces the amount of water needed in the "Mash Volume" cell but "volume into kettle" remains unchanged. Shouldn't adding sparge water reduce the amount of water in the volume into kettle?
Adding 2 gallons into sparge water will reduce mash volume by that amount as that 2 gallons is no longer being used in the mash. It will be used to sparge instead.

The volume into kettle stays the same because the initial volume into the kettle will be 2 gallons less, but will then be made the same when you sparge.

For example, say you normally full volume mash and get 7 gallons into the kettle. If you mash with 2 fewer gallons you will get 5 gallons into the kettle before sparging. Sparging with 2 gallons will bring it back up to 7 gallons.

Edit: volume into mash is when you are mashing. Volume into kettle is after you have pulled the bag out. Think of the one pot as a mash tun when bag is in and a kettle when bag is out.

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk
Last edited by Barge on 07 Nov 2015, 11:43, edited 1 time in total.

Post #10 made 8 years ago
by Scalded Dog
Rick wrote:"volume into kettle"? What BIABacus version are you using?
I am using Ver 1.3

I just downloaded the new version and noticed that using the exact same recipe the new Version actually shows about .30 gallon more strike water than the same recipe using the old ver? I do like the new ver better but am curious as to why identical recipes require different amounts of strike water.
Last edited by Scalded Dog on 08 Nov 2015, 23:59, edited 1 time in total.

Post #11 made 8 years ago
by joshua
The difference is from a different Default Boil-off rate.

If you can time it takes to boil off 'X' Amount of water, you can add it to section "X" of BIABACUS.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #12 made 8 years ago
by Rick
There was also an adjustment to the liquor retained by grain formula, from 1.3k to 1.3t. I'm not sure what this means in comparison to a really old file, too many changes to worry about tracking them. I'll just trust the current version as it has been quite perfect for about 20+ brew days.
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Post #13 made 8 years ago
by Scalded Dog
Thanks for all the help......looking forward to brewing a milk chocolate stout in a week or two. I'm hoping by sparging I can increase my efficiency to the point where I don't require a bump in my grain bill. So for this batch I'm going to purchase a pre-measured recipe instead of making up my own recipe. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Post #14 made 8 years ago
by Scalded Dog
All I can say is the increase in efficiency was incredible. At flame out I had right at 5.5 gallons of wort and the OG was 1.064. Expected OG was supposed to be 1.059 using 5 gallons. BIAB is pretty awesome and every time I brew it gets better. I can only assume sparging was the reason for the great efficiency. I'm thinking about purchasing a 62 qt basket for my 16 Gallon Bayou Classic pot and doing some double batches. With that basket it will make sparging a breeze as well as pulling the spent grains.

Post #15 made 8 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi there Scalded Dog;),

I haven't been able to write much on BIABrewer for quite a while but the basic rule is that if you can fit all your water into the mash then there is no advantage in retaining any for sparging. In other words, as soon as you start sparging, you are adding more time, equipment and hassle for no benefit. The reason for this is explained in The BIAB Legacy Podcast* and also in these posts....

Sweet Liquor Shop 1
Sweet Liquor Shop 2
Sweet Liquor Shop 3

One other important thing is that you can never trust the readings on a single brew. Not even commercial breweries can brew consistently. They have to make adjustments on each and every batch. It is a home brew myth that brewers should be able to hit their numbers dead on every brew.

:salute:
PP

* I think it is in that podcast where it is explained that it is often people doing a 60 minute mash instead of a 90 minute mash who find an increase in sparging. This is solely due to the extra time the sparging takes. Make sure you do a 90 minute mash ;).
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Nov 2015, 05:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #16 made 8 years ago
by Scalded Dog
PP thanks for the response. I always do a 90 Minute mash with a 10 minute mash out at 170° this time I saved back 2 gallons and poured over the bag then squeezed it pretty hard when done. I've read the arguments about sparging and squeezing the bag, as far as squeezing the bag it makes me feel better to see that extra wort and I could never taste any difference between squeezed or not. This is the first time I ever sparged doing BIAB and the efficiency was good. I think for 11-12 gal batches I will have to hold back some strike water since my pot is only 16 gal. So it seems to me on those large batches sparging would make sense?

Post #17 made 8 years ago
by joshua
When I hear why people need to Sparge,

I always think about the Movie "JAWS" when Roy Scheider realizes the Size of the Shark, and says "You're gonna need a bigger boat," without dropping his cigarette.

JMHO
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #18 made 8 years ago
by PistolPatch
Scalded Dog wrote:...I always do a 90 Minute mash with a 10 minute mash out at 170° this time I saved back 2 gallons and poured over the bag then squeezed it pretty hard when done.
There is no problem with this (unless you have done a stupidly fine crush, or have done a stupidly high temp mash-out or have a stupidly high pH :)). In fact, on larger batches, unless you had a stupidly coarse bag, you need to do it. See all the variations there?

Assuming though that you have everything in the sensible range, you'll definitely need to squeeze a double batch but on a quarter batch, you'll not need to be doing too much at all. It is all relative. Just like wringing a bath towel dry versus wringing a face washer (very small towel) dry - the larger towel needs a lot more effort to get the same level of 'dryness'.
Scalded Dog wrote:This is the first time I ever sparged doing BIAB and the efficiency was good.
I've done a heap of batches on the same equipment with the same recipe and occasionally I will get a ridiculous reading. I'll say again, you cannot trust the results from one brew. Three are many reasons why not to. Very few brewers get this lesson and it is no wonder why as a lot of what you read makes you think readings etc can be trusted.
Scalded Dog wrote:I think for 11-12 gal batches I will have to hold back some strike water since my pot is only 16 gal. So it seems to me on those large batches sparging would make sense?
It is the only option you have when your kettle is not large enough unless you choose to go for the "no-sparge" method. The "no-sparge"method is incorrectly written about in many forums, magazines and books. Only a few get it right, such as in Gordon Strong's book in the Amazon ad at the bottom of this page and on this site here.

The Sweet Liquor Shop posts above will explain the advantages and disadvantages of, when you have a small kettle (or huge batch size) going no-sparge or sparging so have a good read of them again and see what you reckon. Finally...

The BIABacus is the only software that can actually work out how whatever method you choose will affect your grain, hop and water bill. Play around in Section W and see how all the other source numbers change as this will help you make a sensible decision.

:salute:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Nov 2015, 00:35, edited 1 time in total.
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