Display posts from previous
Sort by

Belgian Dubbel with gyle

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
Whew, just finished bottling my Belgian Dubbel. This is my first BIAB with a proper recipe with integrity (from Brewing Classic Styles). I've attached the BIABacus below. If anyone wants to comment on anything feel free. The only real question I have is that I added 5.5 cups of gyle before I bottled and I'm not sure how to add this to the BIABacus.

I'm trying to go step by step adding complexity to the brewing process. For this one I only wanted to add the complexity of adding gyle. I did not ferment the gyle, my understanding is that it just takes longer to carbonate but it should still work.

Unfortunately, I found out on my scheduled brewing day that my yeast was too old so I had to do a yeast starter for the first time ever. I wasn't prepared for this, and it delayed my brew for a week as I had to figure out how to do this with the equipment I had on hand. Once separated, the yeast in the starter was difficult to pour off the trub without mixing them together, not sure if that is normal.

Other than that, the brew itself was uneventful but fun.

Cheers all around.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Post #2 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Great job xfumbler :thumbs:,

Nearly all of your BIABacus file is really nice :peace:. First problem I saw was on colour. For example, the candi syrup in the book is 60 Lovibond. But yours is showing about 120 SRM. So, re-check the colour values.

In Section D, I'm a bit worried about the 26.5L value on the first line. I haven't studued the recipe in full so there may be a reason why you have this value. Just double-check this post first.

...

I'm not clued up/educated on "gyle" so I'll need more information there. (I understand parti-gyle if that is of any help.)

...

I'm a little concerned that you haven't hit the kettle efficiencies in Sectio P (EIB and EAW). Is this the first time you have had/noticed a problem there?*

:think:
PP

* Just had another look and you have 11.24 L going into the fermentor in Section L but in Section Q there is 13.1 L in Secondary. How did your wort grow? :P
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Oct 2014, 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia

Post #3 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
Thanks for the input.

As for the candy syrup, the bag I got is the stuff seen here: http://www.candisyrup.com. It is the D-90 which is 90L.
For Section D I got this number from the original recipe which states that the pre-boil volume is 7 gallons.
Thanks for the link, unfortunately I didn't know about the change that should be made to BCS recipes, darn. It's a bit late now.

Gyle is unfermented wort, it's also called spiese I think. I took a sample left over after the boil. It has the same OG as it's the same stuff I pitched the yeast on. I added 1.3L of gyle to the bottling bucket before I siphoned the fermented wort on to it prior to bottling. This adds sugar so that I get the carbonation I want (hopefully). I used it instead of corn sugar for carbonation.

Hmmm, section Q might be a screw up, but I think it's a function of me trying to deal with the gyle issue. I added 1.3L of gyle as I said to the 11.24L in the fermenter before I bottled. So my wort "grew" with the addition of the gyle.

As for the efficiencies... well maybe there is something to my technique I'm not doing right. I just don't know how to figure that out.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Re: Re:

Post #4 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
xfumbler wrote:
Gyle is unfermented wort, it's also called spiese I think. I took a sample left over after the boil. It has the same OG as it's the same stuff I pitched the yeast on. I added 1.3L of gyle to the bottling bucket before I siphoned the fermented wort on to it prior to bottling. This adds sugar so that I get the carbonation I want (hopefully). I used it instead of corn sugar for carbonation.
That technique is called krausioning( probably spelled wrong).
It is something that I'd like to try on my next brew.
Last edited by Lumpy5oh on 29 Oct 2014, 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada

Post #5 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
Oh, I thought Krausening was the term for adding fermenting wort for carbonation, and gyle/speise was the term used for unfermented wort used for carbonation. I.e. gyle + yeast = krausening.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Re: Re:

Post #6 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
xfumbler wrote:Oh, I thought Krausening was the term for adding fermenting wort for carbonation, and gyle/speise was the term used for unfermented wort used for carbonation. I.e. gyle + yeast = krausening.
I stand corrected. It has been a while since I've read up on krausening.
Last edited by Lumpy5oh on 30 Oct 2014, 14:23, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada

Post #7 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
I opened a bottle yesterday to see how the carbonation did, and it worked well. It's very nicely carbonated as I believe the style is supposed to be. As for flavor.... well here's hoping that it mellows out after lagering. It's very fruity. Will keep in the fridge for a month before cracking another open.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Re: Re:

Post #8 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
xfumbler wrote:I opened a bottle yesterday to see how the carbonation did, and it worked well. It's very nicely carbonated as I believe the style is supposed to be. As for flavor.... well here's hoping that it mellows out after lagering. It's very fruity. Will keep in the fridge for a month before cracking another open.
Is there much sediment in the bottles or is the gyle a pretty clear method of carbonating beer?
Last edited by Lumpy5oh on 08 Nov 2014, 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada

Post #9 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
Nothing to worry about at all, in part I think because the sample you take settles out while it sits in your fridge awaiting the fermentation of your beer to end. Then all you have to do is be careful and pour it off the sediment. I read one person on the web for which it failed to carbonate all together but there isn't that much on the technique on the internet, dunno why, maybe my google-fu isn't as cracked up as I believe it to be. I didn't want to fiddle with adding more yeast to it and so I'm pretty happy that it worked without it.

I think it's a good method, I'm just still confused as how to properly account for it in the BIABAcus.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Post #10 made 9 years ago
by mally
xfumbler - I do a similar thing i.e. carbonate with the same wort. However, I use the trub liquid after I rack all the clear wort to fermenter.
I am not advocating this technique, it is just something that works for me, as I feel I am getting value from all the extra work/cleaning.

Rack the trub into sanitised plastic soda bottles and refrigerate. By the time fermentation has finished (1-2 weeks), the liquid trub mixture will have settled, and you can easily decant the clear supernatant "wort". Give it a quick boil, cool & rack fermented beer on top for bulk carbonating. It can be easily calculated for correct carbonation by adding sugar during the boil if required. By the way if anybody tries this, it is worth tasting before adding to your beer in case of any off flavours/contamination. Whether you use it or not, you haven't really lost anything.
xfumbler wrote:I think it's a good method, I'm just still confused as how to properly account for it in the BIABAcus.
Out of interest, what are you hoping to do here?
The way I look at it; the BIABacus has calculated everything whether you use all or part of your wort. In my situation, I could just adjust the KFL value to account for the wort recovery. Or are you thinking of the packaging "section Q"?
Last edited by mally on 09 Nov 2014, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #11 made 9 years ago
by xfumbler
Ah, thanks, mally. I didn't consider adjusting the KFL section, that makes more sense than what I did. I was thinking more of the packaging section. It would affect the number of bottles needed so I took "volume at pitching" added the 1.3L and entered it into the "secondary volume" section so I knew how many bottles I needed. When you enter a value in the "Secondary volume" section it gives you a number next to the "Bottle Req" section in that line.

Would you say then that this method of carbonation is reliable? I was worried from the one account that I read that it wasn't. I think it's great because you don't toss away anything and don't need to buy anything else for priming. I also didn't worry too much about contamination as it was in the freezer, frozen solid.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Post #12 made 9 years ago
by mally
Just a word of caution.
I wouldn't recommend altering the KFL value in your BIABacus now though. This is something I do before brew day.
Any changes you make there will affect volumes & grain bill, so you will lose your original info if you do so after the event.

If it is just the volumes you are interested in (for bottling) then what you did I think is the best way to go about it. i.e.
Use section Q "packaging". fill in the secondary volume value, and your bottle capacity above it, and you will know what the "bottles required" are.

Bear with me on this next paragraph it may take a few re-reads! :lol:
Whether this volume came from the original full volume fermentation and carbonated with no extra liquid additions, or speise (that already contains that same amount of sugar & liquid) wouldn't matter. You have a volume of fermented beer with some unfermented sugar available for carbonation. :whistle:

I use this technique almost every time now, and have never had any carbonation problems. Do you have a reference to the thread that had a problem?
I would guess that if you have fermentable sugar mixed in a sealed vessel with viable yeast you would get carbonation. If you didn't then I would look to other sources of the problem before the technique. i.e. was it fermentable, is the yeast viable, are they close to their alcohol toxicity level, temperature & storage conditions etc. etc.

Hope this helps :peace:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
Post Reply

Return to “BIABrewer.info and BIAB for New Members”

Brewers Online

Brewers browsing this forum: No members and 91 guests

cron