Post #101 made 9 years ago
Thanks for the reply.

Here is another example of what I am getting, this is the Strong Scotch Ale from Brewing Classic Styles, I added in pounds to the spreadsheet:

Original Recipe:
Weight (g)
10203
9072
226
453
226
113
113

Total lbs.
22.4466


Scaled Recipe:
Pounds
20.36739372
18.10967322
0.451144858
0.904285931
0.451144858
0.225572429
0.225572429

20.3673 lbs total

I've tried several recipes from Brewing Classic styles using the same "Volumes etc" numbers from the spreadsheet you uploaded for the Dry Stout. Every time I get a decrease in the grain bill and an increase in the hop bill (which I think is correct?).

Post #102 made 9 years ago
Hey there natept,

I'm still a bit short on time but at a quick guess I'd say that your figure in Cell E5 on the hop bill page of the spreadsheet might be incorrect. It should read John and Jamil's end of boil vlume figure i.e. 22.7 L.

If you can post a sample of your spreadsheet up, I'll see if I can look at it tomorrow. That is of course unless correcting E5 solves your problems :).

Also, make sure you don't convert from metric to pounds in the spreadsheet as many of the formulas won't work in imperial.

Cheers!
PP
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Post #103 made 9 years ago
woopig wrote:...it never occurred to me that it was bringing my kettle diameter into the equation and using a constant to translate that to volumes. Makes sense, of course, since it does so with so many other variables on the spreadsheet, but that one eluded me.
Glad to hear it all makes sense now woopig :peace:. Don't be worried that you couldn't work out the logic behind some of the formulas. Some are hard to "find" as they are often derived from other places / cells on the spreadsheet.

Catch you later,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 Nov 2010, 19:51, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #104 made 9 years ago
I attached the spreadsheet I'm using. The conversions to pounds, ounces, etc. are in added columns, I also added some calculators throughout that help when I'm using this. I used your numbers from the calculator you uploaded for the dry stout for the Volumes, etc. page except for the OG. Thanks again for your willingness to help! I just bought all the gear I need for BIAB and I am looking forward to starting, figuring out recipes is the last hurdle before I take the plunge!
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Post #105 made 9 years ago
Hi there natept,

Great to see you have been playing around with The Calculator to get it to suit you. Nice job :salute:

What I'll do here is work through the spreadsheet you have posted up and describe each change as I do it. I'll basically follow the process outlined in this post - the bit that says, "What You Should Worry About/Do when Converting"...

1. On the "Grain Bill" sheet of the spreadsheet, I will change the Munich and Pale Chocolate amounts to match John and Jamil's all-grain option i.e Munich = 227 g and Pale Chocoalte = 113 g.

2. John & Jamil's total grain bill = 10,092 g. Now I'm going to go back to the "Volumes" sheet...

3. The End of Boil Volume = John and Jamil's so all is good there. John and Jamil's efficiency is based on 70% so I will change that. Now, Grain Bill Required (Cell B18) reads 10,448. What we need to do now is play around with the OG until that 10,448 changes to 10,092. This will compensate for the difference between the gravity formulas used between J & J's program and The Calculator.

1.096 gets us close enough (10132 grams) so we will stick with that.

4. Now, let's change the efficiency figure to 79% seeing as that is the average for known BIAB brews. Jumping to the Grain Bill sheet, you will now see that instead of around 10,100 g you only need 8,977 g.

5. Now for the hops. I am going to change E5 to 22.7 (22.68) so as it matches John and Jamil's end of boil volume i.e. so it matches the original recipe. Theoretically, the amount of grams required should not change but you will notice they have decreased slightly. I think this is because when you put in grams, the figures get "processed" twice as much as if you put in IBU's. It is certainly not enough to worry about though.

The other thing that will be confusing is that The Calculator gives a total of 17 IBU's while John and Jamil's recipe gives a total of about 28??? I have no idea why this occurrs. I have checked The Calculator hop formula (derived from John Palmer) and it matches some other brewing software that uses the same formula :scratch:

Anyway, I will attach the spreadsheet below with the above changes. You had it all very close so good on you. If you want to change the Brew Length figure (how much beer you want to brew) you can now do this and everything else will automatically change on the spreadsheet. In other words, nothing else will need changing.

We'll look forward to hearing how it all goes natept. Are you brewing this recipe first or are you going to try something you can get to drink a bit quicker ;).

If anything above doesn't make sense, let me know,
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2010, 18:22, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #106 made 9 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:Hi there natept,

Great to see you have been playing around with The Calculator to get it to suit you. Nice job :salute:

What I'll do here is work through the spreadsheet you have posted up and describe each change as I do it. I'll basically follow the process outlined in this post - the bit that says, "What You Should Worry About/Do when Converting"...

1. On the "Grain Bill" sheet of the spreadsheet, I will change the Munich and Pale Chocolate amounts to match John and Jamil's all-grain option i.e Munich = 227 g and Pale Chocoalte = 113 g.

2. John & Jamil's total grain bill = 10,092 g. Now I'm going to go back to the "Volumes" sheet...

3. The End of Boil Volume = John and Jamil's so all is good there. John and Jamil's efficiency is based on 70% so I will change that. Now, Grain Bill Required (Cell B18) reads 10,448. What we need to do now is play around with the OG until that 10,448 changes to 10,092. This will compensate for the difference between the gravity formulas used between J & J's program and The Calculator.

1.096 gets us close enough (10132 grams) so we will stick with that.

4. Now, let's change the efficiency figure to 79% seeing as that is the average for known BIAB brews. Jumping to the Grain Bill sheet, you will now see that instead of around 10,100 g you only need 8,977 g.

5. Now for the hops. I am going to change E5 to 22.7 (22.68) so as it matches John and Jamil's end of boil volume i.e. so it matches the original recipe. Theoretically, the amount of grams required should not change but you will notice they have decreased slightly. I think this is because when you put in grams, the figures get "processed" twice as much as if you put in IBU's. It is certainly not enough to worry about though.

The other thing that will be confusing is that The Calculator gives a total of 17 IBU's while John and Jamil's recipe gives a total of about 28??? I have no idea why this occurrs. I have checked The Calculator hop formula (derived from John Palmer) and it matches some other brewing software that uses the same formula :scratch:

Anyway, I will attach the spreadsheet below with the above changes. You had it all very close so good on you. If you want to change the Brew Length figure (how much beer you want to brew) you can now do this and everything else will automatically change on the spreadsheet. In other words, nothing else will need changing.

We'll look forward to hearing how it all goes natept. Are you brewing this recipe first or are you going to try something you can get to drink a bit quicker ;).

If anything above doesn't make sense, let me know,
PP
This is perfectly clear, and now that I've re-read your prior post for the dry stout, that makes sense too. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this! I will probably brew an oatmeal stout or something first, I'll brew a scotch ale once I have a kegging setup.
Last edited by natept on 01 Dec 2010, 07:40, edited 9 times in total.

Post #107 made 9 years ago
No worries at all natept. I quite enjoy recipe conversions and attempting to explain them. It's a combination of a challenge, frustration and sometimes success. I probably find this enjoyable in the same way as some people find crosswords enjoyable :lol:.

All the different software, terminology and formulas mean that it isn't an easy area.

When I convert recipes for my own brewing, I don't go to anywhere near the lengths I will go to here as I now know it isn't necessary and is often actually impossible to get a recipe conversion exact. I also now know that a great recipe will nearly always give you a great result even if substantially abused :o.

Trying to get it exact here exercises my brain. My main computer has two screens but with some of the questions that have been asked here, I have had two laptop screens going as well - comparing different software results etc, etc, and this has not been enough. I would hate to have answered any question here without at least two screens.

I think a panel of about 8 screens would work well for this recipe conversion "hobby."

LOL,
PP

P.S. Good to hear you aren't going the Scotch Ale first up :peace:
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Post #108 made 8 years ago
I would like to have a go at LloydieP's Krispy Kolsch and have tried running it through the Calculator to suit my equipment. Basically I have a 40 litre Urn with a 33cm diameter -v- Lloydies 50litre pot with 40cm diameter. I have come up with the following figures (Lloydies in brackets, except where it says average which is what I have obtained over 3 brews).
Brew length 21 ltrs (19)
Fermenter trub 1.68 ltrs
Volume into fermenter 23 ltrs (20.5)
Kettle trub buffer 5 ltrs
End of boil efficiency 79% (average) (81)
End of boil gravity 1.044 (1.048)
End of boil volume 28 ltrs (23.9)
Boil length 90 mins
Diameter of urn 33 cms (40cm)
Evaperation per hour 3.3 ltrs/hr (average)
Evap for this brew 5 ltrs
Expected start of boil gravity
1.037 (this from calculator)
Start of boil volume 33 ltrs
Grain bill required 5080 (4621)
Grain absorption 3.19 ltrs (from calculator)
Water required 36.19 ltrs (34.9 ltrs)
Approx mash volume 39.54 ltrs
Grain Bill
Wyermans Pilsner 3.5 75%
Melanoidin Malt 60-80 20% (Belgian Vienna Malt) I couldn't find this at the Craftbrewer site.
German Caramel Pilsner 6-8 5%
Hops Bill
Hallertau 5.3 40g @ 60 mins
Hallertau 5.3 20g @ 10 mins

Lloydies mash tep was 64 deg C and I had intended mashing at 67 deg.
I am clueless about IBU and EBC.
Does this seem doable? Thanks for any help.

Post #109 made 8 years ago
It's getting late here Bob so have only scanned your post.

One quick question... Why do you want to mash at 67 C?
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Post #110 made 8 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:It's getting late here Bob so have only scanned your post.

One quick question... Why do you want to mash at 67 C?

No particular reason, it's just what I have been doing. Should I use different mash temps for different types?
Last edited by BobtheBrewer on 09 Dec 2010, 09:16, edited 9 times in total.

Post #111 made 8 years ago
I will probably have a bit more time in the next few days to have a proper look above but for now...

I would go lower for this one Bob.

I'd be mashing this one at say 63 C. (I'm assuming your thermometer is accurate ;)) Going for this lower mash temp will get you drier and thinner which will get you closer to the 'crispiness,' of this kolsch recipe if you are chasing a pseudo-lager.
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Post #112 made 8 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:I will probably have a bit more time in the next few days to have a proper look above but for now...

I would go lower for this one Bob.

I'd be mashing this one at say 63 C. (I'm assuming your thermometer is accurate ;)) Going for this lower mash temp will get you drier and thinner which will get you closer to the 'crispiness,' of this kolsch recipe if you are chasing a pseudo-lager.
Thanks for the advice so far PP. I have changed the grain bill to
3810g Pilsner malt (Wermans)
1000g Wyermans Vienna Malt
125g Wyermans Caramunich 1
125g Wyermans Carahell
on advice from one of the staff at Craftbrewer. The malanoidin was what I picked from the grain available at Craftbrewer website when i couldn't find Belgian Vienna Malt.
Bob Obviously I have got a lot to learn about grains. I tore a hole in my bag during my last brew but now have a new one, voile not muslin, thanks to my daughter. I will probably brew this on Tuesday, will be watching golf on tv tomorrow and playing on Monday.
Last edited by BobtheBrewer on 11 Dec 2010, 16:41, edited 9 times in total.

Post #113 made 8 years ago
Sorry Bob that it has taken me so long to have a look at your recipe properly. Isee that you intend to brew tomorrow so I hope this post isn't too late.

I have very little clue on grains and hops either :). I focus on stealing recipes rather than designing them so I can't offer you any advice on the grain substitutions made though I think they would be fine.

I can help with the calcs side of things though.

Firstly, it is great to see you have been keeping a record of your brews :peace:. Looking at your conversion I can see a few things that might be worth a look at. I am going to convert the recipe for your equipment and then talk about any major differences. Here's my conversion...
LloydieP's Krispy Kolsch - 40 L Urn Bobthe Brewer.xls
This is a conversion from the original recipe to a 40 L urn of 33 cm diameter, with a brew length of 21 L and efficiency of 79%...

Here are the main differences between what you are proposing and the above...

1. Ketttle Trub Buffer: It looks as thugh you have over-ridden The Calculator formula for this. I think 5 L is too high. The Calculator comes up with 3.78 L. This should be heaps of a buffer.

2. End of Boil Gravity: I have kept this at 1.048. I wouldn't go 1.044 as the original recipe is based on The Calculator.

The end result is only a difference of a few hundred grams in the grain bill and a litre in the water required so there is nothing much worth worrying about here. You could go with your conversion without any dramas.

I would however hold back about 7 L from your mash in liquor as both your and my conversion are showing that the mash volume is getting close to the brim of your urn. This 7 L can be added after you mash out or during the boil. (You might even be able to boil it in another pot.) What I am saying here is that you don't want your urn too full otherwise it might make pulling your bag a PITA.

So, I think there is really nothing major to worry about with your conversion :salute:.

The other things to focus on with this recipe are...

1. Mash Temp: We've covered this a bit already. 63 C to 64 C for "Krispy" Kolsch and probably not too much higher for a normal kolsch.

2. Fermentation Temperature - For Krispy go low (say 14C). For a normal kolsch go 2 or 3 degrees C higher.

Will look forward to hearing how it goes Bob.

:luck:
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Dec 2010, 20:10, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #114 made 8 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:
LloydieP's Krispy Kolsch - 40 L Urn Bobthe Brewer.xls
This is a conversion from the original recipe to a 40 L urn of 33 cm diameter, with a brew length of 21 L and efficiency of 79%...

Here are the main differences between what you are proposing and the above...

1. Ketttle Trub Buffer: It looks as thugh you have over-ridden The Calculator formula for this. I think 5 L is too high. The Calculator comes up with 3.78 L. This should be heaps of a buffer.

2. End of Boil Gravity: I have kept this at 1.048. I wouldn't go 1.044 as the original recipe is based on The Calculator.

I would however hold back about 7 L from your mash in liquor as both your and my conversion are showing that the mash volume is getting close to the brim of your urn. This 7 L can be added after you mash out or during the boil. (You might even be able to boil it in another pot.) What I am saying here is that you don't want your urn too full otherwise it might make pulling your bag a PITA.

So, I think there is really nothing major to worry about with your conversion The other things to focus on with this recipe are...

1. Mash Temp: We've covered this a bit already. 63 C to 64 C for "Krispy" Kolsch and probably not too much higher for a normal kolsch.

2. Fermentation Temperature - For Krispy go low (say 14C). For a normal kolsch go 2 or 3 degrees C higher.

Will look forward to hearing how it goes Bob.

:luck:
PP
Thanks for the conversion PP. How did you change the calculator from 50 to 40? That has been one of my biggest bugbears in trying to adapt recipes.
Re kettle trub buffer, yes I did alter that. My tap stops running with about 3.5 litres remaining and to avoid any trub runoff I figured 4 litres was a good mark. After my last brew I raised that to 5. I probably got more grain leak out of the tear in my bag than I thought. Will be interesting to see what happens this time.
I dropped the end of boil gravity to get a lower abv beer. I like to have a few without falling over. I'll go with your figures and report back. Brew is on delay though as I can't get my tempmate to work. It tells me the temperature, shows that it is in refrigerate mode but won't turn my freezer on. Will have to take it back to Ross. And yes, I have made sure the freezer still works. I was running it with a fridgemate but the thing is stuck on 17 deg c and i can't change it. OK for ales but..
Also thanks for the PM, appreciate your willingness to help.
Bob
Last edited by BobtheBrewer on 14 Dec 2010, 16:33, edited 9 times in total.

Post #115 made 8 years ago
No worries Bob,

Thanks for the clarifications on the changes you made. All the changes you made sound well reasoned to me.

As to changing The Calculator from 50 L to 40 L, this is actually irrelevant. The Calculator does not take into account your pot volume, only it's diameter. So, I actually didn't change anything.

What I did look at was the "Approximate Mash Volume" figure in cell B21. I saw that it said 38.7 L and thought, "That is a bit too much for a 40 L urn." Hence my suggestion to hold back 7 L of strike water.

Hope you got your fridgemate sorted :peace:,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 15 Dec 2010, 20:18, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #116 made 8 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:No worries Bob,

What I did look at was the "Approximate Mash Volume" figure in cell B21. I saw that it said 38.7 L and thought, "That is a bit too much for a 40 L urn." Hence my suggestion to hold back 7 L of strike water.

Hope you got your fridgemate sorted :peace:,
PP

I brewed it today. Somehow the calculator in my head took a hit and I only held back 4 litres of strike water. Mash temp started at 64 and finished at 62. I had already bought my grain so I was light on your figures by 177 grams but can't see that making a huge difference. Both my "start and end of boil gravity" were 3 points lower than your figures but I'm not worried about that, maybe just a bit curious why it happened. My end of boil volume was 28 litres, but I suspect that was because I had the lid 3/4 on for about half the boil to get a more vigorous boil going.I filled my cube no worries, but as I was trying to measure the after boil SG I didn't notice it overflowing, so probably a litre or so on the cement. Just as well I brew out under the pergola or the dog would be getting the heave from her bed tonight. In my previous 3 brews my loss to evaporation has been 5 litres over 90 mins. Got my tempmate going, so I'm looking forward to putting this one down. Once again, thanks for your help, will let you know the result.
Bob
Last edited by BobtheBrewer on 16 Dec 2010, 18:09, edited 9 times in total.

Post #117 made 8 years ago
Good on you Bob!

You've probably heard me say before not to get hung up on the figures from a single brew so no comments from me on those. Just keep building up your averages like you have been doing. One thing though (as always :))...

Re putting the lid on three-quarters to reduce evaporation. In my experience, it doesn't work. Read this post for an effective solution.

Holding back 4 L of water rather than 7 L was probably no worries I imagine??? Or was it too close for comfort?

Cheers Bob,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Dec 2010, 19:04, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #118 made 8 years ago
PP,
I put the lid on to get a better boil but won't do that again. I seem to remember reading a post suggesting floating a food grade plastic lid on top of the brew to cut down the surface area and get a better boil going, must look it up. I brew under my patio so have a pedestal fan going so that I don't get too much evaporation on the roof. I'm thinking of moving my gear out a bit so this isn't a problem. I haven't really had a problem with 38 litre plus mashes but I will continue to cut down and add water before the boil. As you have said, it makes it easier to get the bag out.
The new voile bag was tops. The only thing post boil now that I would like to sort is how to get the wort out of the hop sock. Just had a thought, maybe scrape the crap away from the bottom with a spoon to let the wort out.
Bob

Post #119 made 8 years ago
Yep, the floating the lid thing to reduce evaporation is what my last link was all about. Didn't you read that link Bob :o. I thought you were reading every word I wrote - LOL ;)!

Maybe ask your hop sock problem in this thread. If we get into that here, this thread will go way off-topic.
:argh: PP

(Great to hear the voille is working well)
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Dec 2010, 20:11, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #120 made 8 years ago
PP,

Of course I read every word you print, and at this time of night probably once with each eye. I did wonder about that (advice). Well that's another no no. It was pissing down rain and blowing a gale this afternoon when I was brewing and I just didn't seem to be able to get a real good boil going. Have asked a question of BobBrews re the hop sock. Thanks for the reference,
Bob

Post #121 made 8 years ago
BobtheBrewer wrote:PP,

Of course I read every word you print, and at this time of night probably once with each eye...
LOL!
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Dec 2010, 20:51, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #122 made 8 years ago
Hi Everyone,

After a lot of reading the last couple of days I've decided to do NRB's All Amarillo American Pale Ale as by first BIAB.

I'll be using a 40l Crown Urn , Diameter 33cm and I have 2 x 25l fermenters.

I had a play with the Calculator (See attachment),
Calculator American Pale Ale.xls
With my result, I have approximate Mash volume as 40.34l, I'm not too sure how that will work with a 40l urn.

Also on the grain bill the results were 4807g ,963g and 488g.

Would there be any problem with going to 4800g, 950g and 500g?

I plan to order my grain from Beerbelly, What would be the best Pale Ale Grain to use?

Hopefully my Bag will arrive before the weekend otherwise i'll have to make a quick trip to Spotlight and raid their curtain section.

Thanks in advance

love the forum

Pete

The Original recipe is below.

Style: American Pale Ale
Name: NRB's All Amarillo American Pale Ale
Yeast: US-56 (US-05)
Fermentation Temperature: 18 C
Original Gravity: 1.058
Total IBU's: 36.1
Colour (EBC): 24.6
Efficiency at End of Boil: 81%
Mash Length (mins): 90
Boil Length (mins): 90
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): Pot
Source/Credits: Original recipe can be found here
Notes/Instructions/Comments: A very popular and robust recipe. Amounts can be varied greatly whilst still getting a great beer.

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 70 L
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 45 cm
Water Required (L or gal): 41 L
Mash Temperature (C or F): 65 C
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal): 26.8 L
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal): 23 L
Brew Length (L or gal): 21.3 L
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 6260 g

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Pale Ale Malt (Any type) - 3.6 EBC - 76.9% or 4,814 g
Grain 2: Munich 1 - 17.6 EBC - 15.4% or 964 g
Grain 3: CaraAmber - 94.2 EBC - 7.8% or 488 g

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

Hop 1: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 30 IBUs - 30 g at 60 min
Hop 2: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 9 IBUs - 26 g at 20 min
Hop 3: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 4 IBUs - 21 g at 5 min

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct: 1 teaspoon yeast nutrient at 10 min.
Mineral:
Finings: 1/2 tablet of Whirfloc at 10 min.
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Last edited by Pontoon on 06 Jan 2011, 10:16, edited 9 times in total.

Post #123 made 8 years ago
Hi there Pontoon,

There will be no problems with you changing your grain order by that amount so go for it. This recipe turns out nicely with a wide range of pale ale grains. Marris Otter is always great so maybe go for that?

I've just had a look at your spreadsheet and you need to change cell E5 on the Hop Bill page to 26.8 L as this is the volume in the original recipe. Doing this should give you a hop bill of 26 g, 23 g and 18 g. All else looks good :thumbs:

As for the volume problem, just hold back say about 8 L and add this in anytime you can comfortably. For example if there is a heap of space left in the mash then add a bit but not so much that you will create a mess when you pull the bag. If there is some space during the boil, heat up some water in your kettle and add it when you can. Anything that you can't fit in, just add to your fermenter.

Have fun pontoon!
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Post #125 made 8 years ago
Hi Guys.
I've found this Choclate Stout receipe, I've put it into the calculator but would appreciate it if someone could give it the once over. The hops are not to receipe yet as I'm not sure if I'm doing that bit right. Can I just change the Original Receipe end of boil volume until the Scaled IBU's hit the required level ?

The Original is:

Brew Stats:
5 gallon brew length...I assume this is into FV volume
Efficiency: 75%......Theirs not mine
OG: 1050
IBUs 33.8
SRM: 32.3
ABV 4.8%

Ingredients:

3.50 kg Maris otter
0.35 kg Crystal Malt
0.35 kg Barley, Flaked
0.35 kg Chocolate Malt
0.30 kg Wheat, Torrified
0.10 kg Roasted Barley

50.00 gm Fuggles 90 min
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent 15 min

Thanks in advance for your help

Y
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