Basiaclly I am wanting to know if there is much differance in adding all the water before the mash or sparging with extra water?
Does it make much differance?
Seems easier to use just the one pot... add all the water and then do no sparge but some of the recipies I have step mash and then sparge...
so what do other do?
Post #2 made 13 years ago
Good Day, DukeBrewer
Full Volume mashing is the BIAB way to brew!
That is, if your kettle is large enough for your Batch.
I use a 32Qt/30L kettle and brew 12L Batches, easy, the Full Volume way.
But, sometimes I need a to do 23L brews and I HAVE TO SPARGE.
It is Much better to Have a kettle big enough to brew the full Volume!!
Full Volume mashing is the BIAB way to brew!
That is, if your kettle is large enough for your Batch.
I use a 32Qt/30L kettle and brew 12L Batches, easy, the Full Volume way.
But, sometimes I need a to do 23L brews and I HAVE TO SPARGE.
It is Much better to Have a kettle big enough to brew the full Volume!!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
So for a full volume 23L batch would a 33L pot be OK or should I go for 50L the price difference is not much but the larger one would be trickier in the cooker.
Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #4 made 13 years ago
Jeltz, 33l kettle will make about 16L from a full volkume BIAB(no sparrge).
The 50L can do a 23L very high gravity full volume BIAB, very easy.
Remember the bag needs to be able to hold the kettle inside, so a BIG BAG is needed!
The 50L can do a 23L very high gravity full volume BIAB, very easy.
Remember the bag needs to be able to hold the kettle inside, so a BIG BAG is needed!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #5 made 13 years ago
that settles it thanks if I get on OK with AG BIAB I'll get a 50L kettle.
Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #6 made 13 years ago
Are you thinking of doing this on your kitchen stovetop Jeltz or do you have something like a three-ring camping burner? Your stovetop would probably not produce enough heat to get a full batch boilingJeltz wrote:...the larger one would be trickier in the cooker.
. There's also a bit more info on kettle sizes here. As joshus said, the 50 L is great for single batches. A 70 L will do both singles and doubles which is handy for some brewers. Or, there are electric urns as well. Too many choices!
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Aug 2012, 07:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 13 years ago
Yes I was thinking about on the stove top. A shame as a burner and gas bottle will double the cost.
A shame as a burner and gas bottle will double the cost.Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #8 made 13 years ago
Unfortunately Jeltz, it would be a rare stovetop that could boil the wort required for a normal single batch, 19-23 L into the fermetor say.
Three-ring camping burners are pretty cheap over here. Maybe they even have second-had ones for sale? As for gas bottles, they have a "Swap'n'Go" system over here where you take your empty gas bottle in and swap it for a full one. I have to go to the local rubbish tip here a few times each year and can always get a discarded gas bottle there. I have four now
.
Keep your eye out for second hand kettles, kegs, stock pots or burners. There is nothing that can really go wrong with them. The other alternative is to brew smaller batches on your stove-top. A large burner on a normal kitchen stove-top should handle a 20 L kettle okay which will do a 'half-batch' with no problems. Maybe your stove-top can handle two half-batches at the same time?
PP
Three-ring camping burners are pretty cheap over here. Maybe they even have second-had ones for sale? As for gas bottles, they have a "Swap'n'Go" system over here where you take your empty gas bottle in and swap it for a full one. I have to go to the local rubbish tip here a few times each year and can always get a discarded gas bottle there. I have four now
.Keep your eye out for second hand kettles, kegs, stock pots or burners. There is nothing that can really go wrong with them. The other alternative is to brew smaller batches on your stove-top. A large burner on a normal kitchen stove-top should handle a 20 L kettle okay which will do a 'half-batch' with no problems. Maybe your stove-top can handle two half-batches at the same time?
PP
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Post #9 made 13 years ago
Yeah we have the same swap system here and in reality I think that alfresco boiling would go down better with Mrs J. It would appear that propane/butane bottles aren't quite as dear as I was expecting and I even have a small butane bottle for a camping stove which might be a little small but worth a try.
I have sourced a burner at a reasonable cost, but in the meantime I'm going to fill my 19L stock pot with water and see how works out on the stove.
Thanks
Nic
I have sourced a burner at a reasonable cost, but in the meantime I'm going to fill my 19L stock pot with water and see how works out on the stove.
Thanks
Nic
Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #10 made 13 years ago
Well I have just remembered that the LHBS has an electric boiler in quite cheaply (or did have last month)I think they have had it in a long time as they don't really do AG and when I asked the owner about AG he said unless you want to do "weird" beers kits are better.......
Anyway I think I might see if I can get a deal on it.
Anyway I think I might see if I can get a deal on it.
Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #11 made 13 years ago
Better for the LHBS, have a look at the prices they charge for kit beers, then look at how much you pay for great AG beers. AG would have to be 1/2 the price!Jeltz wrote:I asked the owner about AG he said unless you want to do "weird" beers kits are better.......
Last edited by hashie on 29 Aug 2012, 05:58, edited 2 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #12 made 13 years ago
That is correct, but I believe he genuinely believe that. His prices are good and he sells the kits cheaper than most people, but I do think he's more into his wines than beer.
EDIT: The only malt they sell is 500g of crushed pale malt and they have some hops from the 2009 harvest
EDIT: The only malt they sell is 500g of crushed pale malt and they have some hops from the 2009 harvest
Regards
Nic
Nic
Post #13 made 13 years ago
my (square) kettle is 68 liters. I have been doing double batches lately (46 liters into the no chill cubes) and have found that a dunk sparge in a bucket does help get a few more gravity points out of the grain.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #14 made 13 years ago
Jeltz has his kettle problem sorted now (here) so shibolet's post above is timely. (Jeltz, I'll try and answer your other question tomorrow but part of that answer lies below.)
Shib has us back on track to the original question which is a great one. I'm going to re-phrase it a bit as follows..
I recently did 6 double batches (two double batches per day) over a period of three days and started to investigate the above question. Sparging versus full-volume only made a 2% difference on average to the Efficiency into Kettle (EIK). Some of these brews were around 1.065 OG from memory.
A 2% difference in predicted EIK on 6 batches is nothing.
The long and short of all this is that towards the end of the year, when I will have more time, I am going to buy some 4 L coffee plungers (french presses?) and do some repeated side by side mashing/sparging experiments. It really is the only way to answer this question properly.
Until then, my advice, like the others above, is to get as much water as possible (preferably all) in contact with the grain as soon as possible.
PP
Shib has us back on track to the original question which is a great one. I'm going to re-phrase it a bit as follows..
There are several mathematical models on this. For example, stux did a lot of work on the maths of this but he is not that confident in the sparging side of the calcs. The end result works out okay but the sparge aspect is largely unknown."If I needed 40 L of water to make a brew and had no kettle size limitations, would I be better off putting all the water into the mash or would it be better to say put 30 L into the mash and sparge with 10 L?"
I recently did 6 double batches (two double batches per day) over a period of three days and started to investigate the above question. Sparging versus full-volume only made a 2% difference on average to the Efficiency into Kettle (EIK). Some of these brews were around 1.065 OG from memory.
A 2% difference in predicted EIK on 6 batches is nothing.
The long and short of all this is that towards the end of the year, when I will have more time, I am going to buy some 4 L coffee plungers (french presses?) and do some repeated side by side mashing/sparging experiments. It really is the only way to answer this question properly.
Until then, my advice, like the others above, is to get as much water as possible (preferably all) in contact with the grain as soon as possible.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 Aug 2012, 22:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #15 made 13 years ago
what an excellent idea! can't wait to hear your results.PistolPatch wrote: I am going to buy some 4 L coffee plungers (french presses?) and do some repeated side by side mashing/sparging experiments. It really is the only way to answer this question properly.
BTW, my method isn't nearly as scientific. my brewing is more "by the seat of my pants"
Last edited by shibolet on 30 Aug 2012, 03:17, edited 2 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #16 made 13 years ago
Thanks guys just what i wanted to hear.
My first brew I did full water volume.. my pot is 50l and the end volume was spot on thanks to the calculator. Spoke with LBS and they advised sparge, add lid etc. End result was I had no idea what volume i would end up with etc.
So thanks.
My first brew I did full water volume.. my pot is 50l and the end volume was spot on thanks to the calculator. Spoke with LBS and they advised sparge, add lid etc. End result was I had no idea what volume i would end up with etc.
So thanks.
