Hi guys,
My last 3 batches have all tasted bad with the same off flavour. Which off flavour I'm not 100% as I've never tasted off beer before. I thought I had an issue with chlorine giving me a band aid flavour but my last batch I used all bottled water even in my no rinse sanitiser bottles, even rinsed fermentor with bottled water after cleaning. I just tasted this batch after doing FG reading and it has the same crappy taste. I've used NRB pale ale receipe for one batch and brewing classic styles American pale ale for the other two so can't be a receipe issue. I even bought a new fermentor.
I just don't know what else I'm doing wrong? They only other things I can think off is my starter is getting infected? Although I've made starters previously with no problems or I use an electric BIAB and my element keeps getting burnt residue after the brew. I use a keg King 2400W element. This has always happened and other beers turned out great.
My next step is don't make a starter, either buy enough liquids yeast or use dry? Or ditch the element and go gas?
I can't keep making un drinkable beer, for one my wife is killing me about how much money I'm wasting but also damn unmotivating.
Ive previously made some decent beer but now I don't know what to do and I'm getting anxious about brewing altogether.
Do you think my LHBS would taste my beer and tell me what's wrong?
Any help very much welcome!!
Cheers from a deflated home brewer
Post #2 made 8 years ago
It's too bad that you're having problems. And it's hard to help you remotely. I had stopped brewing back in the later 1990s... Was an occasional extract brewer and had problems with too much carbonation in bottles and then the clincher - a metallic taste in my beer (a few years ago when I got back into brewing and discovered it had been caused by a scratch in my enamel pot...). So I can certainly feel your pain.
Take it one step at a time. Do small scale tests to determine issue if you can to test your system and try to determine the issue...one step at a time. If concerned it's the pot elements maybe a small scale brew session with extract to see if issue is duplicated. LHBS could be a good idea if knowledgeable person, and potentially same with local homebrew groups. It likely is something simple. How is your cleaning? How about rinsing of the cleaning detergents? So my point is it's likely a simple solution if you can calm down, relax, take it one step at a time, do simple one-step tests to figure it out.
A note on water, if you use bottled water that has minerals stripped out, it can cause some issues. Normally those trying to soften their water use a portion of Reverse Osmosis filtered water and a portion tap water, like 50/50... I have soft water here so this isn't an issue with me, just FYI.
For sure, take it one piece at a time and let us know what you find out.
Take it one step at a time. Do small scale tests to determine issue if you can to test your system and try to determine the issue...one step at a time. If concerned it's the pot elements maybe a small scale brew session with extract to see if issue is duplicated. LHBS could be a good idea if knowledgeable person, and potentially same with local homebrew groups. It likely is something simple. How is your cleaning? How about rinsing of the cleaning detergents? So my point is it's likely a simple solution if you can calm down, relax, take it one step at a time, do simple one-step tests to figure it out.
A note on water, if you use bottled water that has minerals stripped out, it can cause some issues. Normally those trying to soften their water use a portion of Reverse Osmosis filtered water and a portion tap water, like 50/50... I have soft water here so this isn't an issue with me, just FYI.
For sure, take it one piece at a time and let us know what you find out.
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Post #3 made 8 years ago
From what you have told us in your post, you are quite aware of what could happen at each step and you have made good changes. It is rough when you had a record of good beers go bad, Wadey82. Scott's recommendation of doing experiments is a sound idea, but hard to take when you think of how much effort and cost that could be. My suggestion would be to repeat a former batch that was good, tasting along the way - the grains, the starter, a sample of the mash, the spent grains, etc. You could split the wort into several (sanitized by different methods) containers and dose with portions of your starter. Covering a fermenter with plastic wrap with a pinhole works in a case like this. Sniff and taste along the way with only clean things touching the liquid. No fingers allowed. Stop and ask yourself about anything that touches liquid post boil.
I used to do research on impurities in pharmaceuticals. We had a white drug show a new color in stored drums over the course of two weeks after being removed from a stainless steel tumble dryer. Some 20 prior batches in the same equipment stayed white, never changed. The stainless steel took that long to be scoured by the gently abrasive solids to catalyze an oxidation in the solid phase that eventually changed the color of the drug. Your burner element or kettle could be similarly conditioned after use. Is there a way to clean it and boil some water (taste it when cooled) before you use it for the next brew? If not the burner element, is there something else that could be lurking after all your cleaning efforts? There is a bit of talk on this forum about kettle taps and siphons harboring crap, but you did not indicate that you have a problem with one of those.
My speculations about where things can go wrong could eat up a day. Perhaps others here can give you another approach.
Best of luck to you on finding a solution.
I used to do research on impurities in pharmaceuticals. We had a white drug show a new color in stored drums over the course of two weeks after being removed from a stainless steel tumble dryer. Some 20 prior batches in the same equipment stayed white, never changed. The stainless steel took that long to be scoured by the gently abrasive solids to catalyze an oxidation in the solid phase that eventually changed the color of the drug. Your burner element or kettle could be similarly conditioned after use. Is there a way to clean it and boil some water (taste it when cooled) before you use it for the next brew? If not the burner element, is there something else that could be lurking after all your cleaning efforts? There is a bit of talk on this forum about kettle taps and siphons harboring crap, but you did not indicate that you have a problem with one of those.
My speculations about where things can go wrong could eat up a day. Perhaps others here can give you another approach.
Best of luck to you on finding a solution.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #4 made 8 years ago
Good Day, Does your Fermenter have a tap?
You mentioned a Band-Aid flavor, to quote J.Palmer's book
"Medicinal
These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid? like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors."
If you think the first two parts of brewing are a problem, Taste the Wort(cooled) before Pitching, it should be very Sweet, and Probably very Hoppy. It there is the Off taste, It may be the Kettle.
Or start with the Mash, it should taste very Malty, and somewhat Sweet. If the bad taste is there, check you mashing Equipment, and if you have a tap, remove it and Thoroughly Clean it.
The bad taste comes from anything that Touches the Beer from Mash-in to Bottle Opening, Including your Hands.
JMHO.
You mentioned a Band-Aid flavor, to quote J.Palmer's book
"Medicinal
These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid? like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors."
If you think the first two parts of brewing are a problem, Taste the Wort(cooled) before Pitching, it should be very Sweet, and Probably very Hoppy. It there is the Off taste, It may be the Kettle.
Or start with the Mash, it should taste very Malty, and somewhat Sweet. If the bad taste is there, check you mashing Equipment, and if you have a tap, remove it and Thoroughly Clean it.
The bad taste comes from anything that Touches the Beer from Mash-in to Bottle Opening, Including your Hands.
JMHO.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #5 made 8 years ago
I use ball valve to transfer the wort from the kettle fermentor once cooled to pitching temp, I had pulled the ball valve apart and thoroughly cleaned it. One thought I had was to take SG reading by draining wort from the valve, could this be causing infection by the time the wort cools?
I taste why wort after mashing, it's taste sweet and malty and also after the boil and again it taste sweet, malty and very hoppy, so nothing from those tastings indicates off flavours? My current batch is fermenting right now, I pitched at 16 deg, fermentation started overnigh so maybe 6-8 hours. Fermentation temp rose to 18-19 deg. I tasted a sample yesterday, straight way it lacked hop aromas despite a decent addition of late an zero minute hops and had what i think is band aid flavours.
I'm considering making a small batch, maybe 10l so ingredients are fewer and I wouldn't need a starter. Perhaps use my auto siphon to transfer to fermentor to avoid the ball valve. Also I might try no chill? Maybe my immersion chiller is bringing in infection?
I taste why wort after mashing, it's taste sweet and malty and also after the boil and again it taste sweet, malty and very hoppy, so nothing from those tastings indicates off flavours? My current batch is fermenting right now, I pitched at 16 deg, fermentation started overnigh so maybe 6-8 hours. Fermentation temp rose to 18-19 deg. I tasted a sample yesterday, straight way it lacked hop aromas despite a decent addition of late an zero minute hops and had what i think is band aid flavours.
I'm considering making a small batch, maybe 10l so ingredients are fewer and I wouldn't need a starter. Perhaps use my auto siphon to transfer to fermentor to avoid the ball valve. Also I might try no chill? Maybe my immersion chiller is bringing in infection?
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Post #6 made 8 years ago
"Maybe my immersion chiller is bringing in infection?"
That is Unlikely, if you put the Chiller in, while Boiling. But the output hose could, if it was not clean, and sanitized.
When you took the SG reading, I hope you did not put the sample back in the cool Wort, since that can cause the infection.
The hops added at zero, should have added a lot of Flavor if they stayed in the wort for 15-20 minutes, did they Smell Good?
One more Question.....Are you making a Wheat beer? The yeast used for Wheat beer can cause flavors like Clove and other phenol's.
They should disapate in a few weeks after Bottling.
That is Unlikely, if you put the Chiller in, while Boiling. But the output hose could, if it was not clean, and sanitized.
When you took the SG reading, I hope you did not put the sample back in the cool Wort, since that can cause the infection.
The hops added at zero, should have added a lot of Flavor if they stayed in the wort for 15-20 minutes, did they Smell Good?
One more Question.....Are you making a Wheat beer? The yeast used for Wheat beer can cause flavors like Clove and other phenol's.
They should disapate in a few weeks after Bottling.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #7 made 8 years ago
Good thought on the output hose Joshua.
Yes for sure, if the output hose - or anything that is not cleaned and sanitized - if it touches the beer, it could certainly cause a contamination issue.
Yes for sure, if the output hose - or anything that is not cleaned and sanitized - if it touches the beer, it could certainly cause a contamination issue.
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Post #8 made 8 years ago
Well I had my first ever "dumper" batch... Band aid flavor.
Had done a double batch of fresh hop APA. Was fermenting with different yeasts. Didn't have room for both batches in fermentation chamber so put one in cleaned and sanitized Corney keg in beer refrigerator. When first batch was complete used a racking cane I hadn't used in some time... Was sure it had been cleaned and sanitized prior to storing it... Can't remember exactly what I did but for certain I resanitized the racking cane before use. Anyhow, just had to throw the second batch out entirely...including sloppy slurry.
Definitely a blow to the ego. First batch was fine...thankfully.
One website I went to attributed band aid flavor to not getting "chlorine based sanitizer" out. Had heard of cleaner but unfamiliar with chlorine based cleaner. I use Star San, an acid based no rinse sanitizer, and PBW as a cleaner...and actually rinse with water after the PBW but before the Star San (not after).
I'm wondering if it is something else, like some bug introduced by the racking cane???
May be no way of knowing.
Had done a double batch of fresh hop APA. Was fermenting with different yeasts. Didn't have room for both batches in fermentation chamber so put one in cleaned and sanitized Corney keg in beer refrigerator. When first batch was complete used a racking cane I hadn't used in some time... Was sure it had been cleaned and sanitized prior to storing it... Can't remember exactly what I did but for certain I resanitized the racking cane before use. Anyhow, just had to throw the second batch out entirely...including sloppy slurry.
Definitely a blow to the ego. First batch was fine...thankfully.One website I went to attributed band aid flavor to not getting "chlorine based sanitizer" out. Had heard of cleaner but unfamiliar with chlorine based cleaner. I use Star San, an acid based no rinse sanitizer, and PBW as a cleaner...and actually rinse with water after the PBW but before the Star San (not after).
I'm wondering if it is something else, like some bug introduced by the racking cane???
May be no way of knowing.-
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Post #9 made 8 years ago
Hi Scott,
It sure sucks dumping a batch of beer! I took one of off beers to my LHBS and luckily one of the staff is a BJCP judge. He identified phenolic off flavours and after discussing my brew day process thought that wild yeast was the most likely cause with the chill stage being when wild yeast may be contaminating the wort. I've since installed a carbon filter and adapted the no chill method to avoid having cool wort sitting around.
I've just dry hopped a pale ale and fingers crossed no off flavours yet. I'll bottle on Friday so hopefully the LHBS was come to my rescue.
It sure sucks dumping a batch of beer! I took one of off beers to my LHBS and luckily one of the staff is a BJCP judge. He identified phenolic off flavours and after discussing my brew day process thought that wild yeast was the most likely cause with the chill stage being when wild yeast may be contaminating the wort. I've since installed a carbon filter and adapted the no chill method to avoid having cool wort sitting around.
I've just dry hopped a pale ale and fingers crossed no off flavours yet. I'll bottle on Friday so hopefully the LHBS was come to my rescue.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 5 Brews From Australia
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