Hello all,
I've done a whopping 3! brew days in my life, and have run into some problems that I'm hoping you all have suggestions on.
1) my first two brews came out tasting rather bitter. I carbon filtered the water for both brews. From what I've read, it seems like an astringency issue. The first brew (oatmeal stout) had major temperature issues, so it's easy to attribute that one to sparge temps above 170 (yes, I sparged). The second (American amber) however, was just about dead on temp wise, and definitely never made contact with super hot water. So I'm not sure what the problem is there. Also, I've never actually sucked on an over used tea bag, so I'm not positive I'm even naming the problem correctly. Guess I should go fire up the tea kettle. Could the type of grain bag used affect this?
2) my last brew (brown ale) has been in the fermenter 12 days. I decided not to do secondary fermentation on this one. I used a strainer to remove the trub on its way into the carboy and then pitched a dry packet of Muntons Ale yeast that I rehydrated according to How to Brew. I should also mention that I used a whirlfloc tablet and yeast fuel that the homebrew shop includes with its one gallon recipes at the end of the boil. Aerated by shaking for 45 seconds or so and then it bubbled and produced some blow off starting about 3 hours after pitching until somewhere around 30 hours. I was left with a ground beefy looking yeast. 12 days in, half of the ground beef is still floating on the top. Took a gravity reading today and it is right at its estimated final gravity. I didn't get an OG, as I just bought the hydrometer today. Any ideas why it's not flocculating?
Also, took a taste of it this afternoon and it also appears to have the same astringency issue as the first two batches.
Sorry if that was too much of all the wrong information. Wasn't sure what would be the most helpful info. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Post #2 made 10 years ago
Slaw07, Sparging with 170F temperature water that has a PH of 7.0, will bring out a large amount of Tannins.
That may be the Bitterness, Sparging is not needed with BIAB.
Just Squeeze the %$#&% out of the bag until the grain bill seems Dry.
The 1.025 SG left in the grains, are not worth the time to recover, you should have All the wort in the Kettle to Boil/Ferment to get you Volume into Packing(VIP)
The yeast Cake that Floats in top of the beer, has dried out, and can't sink.
If you can Swirl the Fermenter, maybe once a day, the yeast can not stay on top and will completely Flocculate.
That may be the Bitterness, Sparging is not needed with BIAB.
Just Squeeze the %$#&% out of the bag until the grain bill seems Dry.
The 1.025 SG left in the grains, are not worth the time to recover, you should have All the wort in the Kettle to Boil/Ferment to get you Volume into Packing(VIP)
The yeast Cake that Floats in top of the beer, has dried out, and can't sink.
If you can Swirl the Fermenter, maybe once a day, the yeast can not stay on top and will completely Flocculate.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
Describe your current brown ale recipe including hops... And is this a kit they sell?
One whirlfloc treats 10 gallons, btw.
MS
One whirlfloc treats 10 gallons, btw.
MS
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
2.25 pounds 2-row, 2 oz crystal 90L, 2oz chocolate malt. .5 oz of Styrian Golding hops for bittering, .25 of the same flavoring hops. And then the Muntons Ale dry yeast that I rehydrated. Yes, it is a kit they sell. Mashed for 60 minutes, dunk sparged in a separate kettle and then 60 minute boil.
I was told the whirlfloc was fine to use the whole tab, but I'm wondering if it contributes to the "fluffiness" of the yeast?
I was told the whirlfloc was fine to use the whole tab, but I'm wondering if it contributes to the "fluffiness" of the yeast?
Post #5 made 10 years ago
That hop schedule could put the IBU to around 60 IBU. What IBU does the kit say? What OG for this brown ale?
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
My OG guess is 1.060, then 60 IBU should be fine.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
Congrats on your first three brew days Slaw 
,
Here's a few thoughts for you...
From reviewing your prior posts, I am guessing your batch sizes are still really small (1 gallon into fermentor).Such a small size makes analysis even harder than it is on batches of 19 L (5gal) into fermentor.
Unless your grain bag is of a natural fibre and unwashed before you use it, then I would not investigate your grain bag. Similiarly, I think your suspicions on sparging temps might also not be the answer. Yeast fuel os not need in all-grain brews so I would leave that out. Also, you should not expect a brew to end right on it's estimated final gravity as that is actually effected by many things. A better view-point is to expect to see your brew "around about" the estimated FG.
Astringency.
The most obvious answer for an astringent recipe (and this is something I haven't written before) is that the original recipe is probably poorly articulated and/or incorrectly scaled. [EDIT: I'm being a bit OTP here. Please read my next post for clarification.] I would like to see the exact weights of grains and hops you used in your recipes Slaw as well as the volume of water that 'saw' the grain.
I'd also like to hear later taste tests as early worts can taste awful (to me at least!).
Joshua mentioned another possibility for your astringency, sparging. If your kettle can handle the full volume of your water in the mash, then avoid active sparging and add the full volume of water required for your brew to the mash allowing a passive sparge to occur. There is actually not even the necessity to squeeze the hell out of your bag (settle down Josh!
, unless you want to achieve ridiculously high kettle efficiency figures.
Finally, have a read here on the problems with 60 minute mashes and boils. I wrote something about this on my last post but there is much more on this hidden away. If you have no luck finding the answers post back and someone will sort you out. If you do ghave luck, post your best finds below to save us all time!!!
PP
,Here's a few thoughts for you...
From reviewing your prior posts, I am guessing your batch sizes are still really small (1 gallon into fermentor).Such a small size makes analysis even harder than it is on batches of 19 L (5gal) into fermentor.
Unless your grain bag is of a natural fibre and unwashed before you use it, then I would not investigate your grain bag. Similiarly, I think your suspicions on sparging temps might also not be the answer. Yeast fuel os not need in all-grain brews so I would leave that out. Also, you should not expect a brew to end right on it's estimated final gravity as that is actually effected by many things. A better view-point is to expect to see your brew "around about" the estimated FG.
Astringency.
The most obvious answer for an astringent recipe (and this is something I haven't written before) is that the original recipe is probably poorly articulated and/or incorrectly scaled. [EDIT: I'm being a bit OTP here. Please read my next post for clarification.] I would like to see the exact weights of grains and hops you used in your recipes Slaw as well as the volume of water that 'saw' the grain.
I'd also like to hear later taste tests as early worts can taste awful (to me at least!).
Joshua mentioned another possibility for your astringency, sparging. If your kettle can handle the full volume of your water in the mash, then avoid active sparging and add the full volume of water required for your brew to the mash allowing a passive sparge to occur. There is actually not even the necessity to squeeze the hell out of your bag (settle down Josh!
, unless you want to achieve ridiculously high kettle efficiency figures.Finally, have a read here on the problems with 60 minute mashes and boils. I wrote something about this on my last post but there is much more on this hidden away. If you have no luck finding the answers post back and someone will sort you out. If you do ghave luck, post your best finds below to save us all time!!!
PP
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
I was having some seriously bad tastes going through my brews a while back and tried everything to fix the problem, anyway as a last resort I totally dismantled the ball valve and tap on my kettle to find that the nylon/plastic washer inside the valve was all battered and screwed up and crap had built up all around it and was causing the problem.
(I know some people here frown on taps in kettles but I find it so easy to run off the wort into my no chill cube)
Anyway to cut a long story short I went and got a new ball valve all ready to go and now problem solved and once again I'm getting some great beers
(I know some people here frown on taps in kettles but I find it so easy to run off the wort into my no chill cube)
Anyway to cut a long story short I went and got a new ball valve all ready to go and now problem solved and once again I'm getting some great beers
I used to spill more than I drink these days!
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
Here's my last grain bill: 2.25 pounds 2-row, 2 oz crystal 90L, 2oz chocolate malt. I started with 5 quarts of strike water (2qts/lb) heated to 165. I then poured it over the grain bag in a two gallon cooler (first time I've used the cooler), stirred it around a bit to make sure to break up all the grain and then put the lid on and put the cooler in my room temperature oven. Covered the cooler with a towel and checked temp after 30 minutes. The temp had dropped pretty significantly from 153 to 147. I added just under a quart of 163 water to get it back up to 153. At the end of the 60 minute mash the temperature was 150.PistolPatch wrote:
The most obvious answer for an astringent recipe (and this is something I haven't written before) is that the original recipe is probably poorly articulated and/or incorrectly scaled.[MODNOTE: PP thinks this is incorrect. Details in next post.] I would like to see the exact weights of grains and hops you used in your recipes Slaw as well as the volume of water that 'saw' the grain.
I gently poured the wort back into the kettle where I let the bag sit over it in a colander and drain for about 5 minutes. I then used a dipstick to measure the wort and had 5 quarts. Just a coincidence that the bag absorbed pretty much exactly what I added to heat up the mash. The first two batches boiled off almost a gallon, so I heated 12 quarts of sparge water to 165. I let the bag soak for another 15 minutes in the sparge water and then combined the two for the boil. Started the boil with 2 gallons of wort.
I threw in the hop pellets (no hopsack) for the boil. At the end of the boil I had just under 1.25 gallons or 5 quarts. I strained it as I put it in the carboy and lost about one quart to trub, which gave me pretty much an even gallon into the fermenter.
It has now been 14 days and there is still a good amount of yeast on top in the carboy. I will take another gravity reading tonight and if it hasn't dropped, I plan to put it in my fridge for a couple of days to see if it will settle out.
Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to help me out!
Last edited by Slaw07 on 17 Feb 2015, 00:01, edited 1 time in total.
Post #11 made 10 years ago
[EDIT: Please read the **** at the end of this post.]
Slaw. on your next brew, try and do the pure BIAB (full volume mash) in your kettle as it avoids so many problems with no penalty (labour, extra vessels, temp drops etc). Also, add your grain after the strike water rather than before. I saw the opposite of this in a brewing magazine article by two well-know 'brewing guys' just the other day. Adding water to the grain has several potential disadvantages. If you had full-volumed this last brew, life would have been much easier!
...
I think the bit of my post you have quoted above is wrong. It has some merit but I wrote that after a few IPA's and after reading a truly atrocious recipe somewhere else that, if brewed as I saw, would have resulted in about a 60 IBU beer rather than the desired 35 IBU's. To the poor brewer who brewed that, it would taste astringent! (I'll put edits in above to draw attention to this.)
Mad-Scientist has had a guestimate at your IBU's and 60IBU's is way out of line for a Brown Ale. Also I don't work in US measurements but one thing I can see from the above is that those weightsw are very low and that no mention is made of how much this kit is meant to brew (more below)???
...
So where does that leave you?
Try and avoid 'all-grain' kits in future. They are great for the seller but I have never heard of one sold along with any clear instructions. The instructions might sound clear to a new brewer but they are not. For example, how much wort a kit will make is never seen? Instead we might hear meaningless terms such as "yields 5 gallons" or non-useful terms such as "makes 5 gallons into fermentor". In your kit aboe there seems to be no info on volumes from another quick scan. One whirfloc tablet is way too much for a normal brew of about 6 gallons VAW. One tablet in a bit over 1 gallon VAW is completely out of control and could well be the cause of all your astringency problems***.
Use the BIABacus and the Clear Brewing Terminology thread for your next brew. These give you non-vague (solid) building blocks to understand and operate your brewhouse properly.
Full volume (pure BIAB) your brew. There is no reason why you can't full volume brew that I can see so make sure you do that. Not doing it causes so many problems both actual and potential.
Write in both US and Metric. Using the BIABacus and it's reports will make this point unnecessary as it will display both units simultaneously. Anything that does not, really limits the level of advice you will recieve.
****
Slaw. on your next brew, try and do the pure BIAB (full volume mash) in your kettle as it avoids so many problems with no penalty (labour, extra vessels, temp drops etc). Also, add your grain after the strike water rather than before. I saw the opposite of this in a brewing magazine article by two well-know 'brewing guys' just the other day. Adding water to the grain has several potential disadvantages. If you had full-volumed this last brew, life would have been much easier!
...
I think the bit of my post you have quoted above is wrong. It has some merit but I wrote that after a few IPA's and after reading a truly atrocious recipe somewhere else that, if brewed as I saw, would have resulted in about a 60 IBU beer rather than the desired 35 IBU's. To the poor brewer who brewed that, it would taste astringent! (I'll put edits in above to draw attention to this.)
Mad-Scientist has had a guestimate at your IBU's and 60IBU's is way out of line for a Brown Ale. Also I don't work in US measurements but one thing I can see from the above is that those weightsw are very low and that no mention is made of how much this kit is meant to brew (more below)???
...
So where does that leave you?
Try and avoid 'all-grain' kits in future. They are great for the seller but I have never heard of one sold along with any clear instructions. The instructions might sound clear to a new brewer but they are not. For example, how much wort a kit will make is never seen? Instead we might hear meaningless terms such as "yields 5 gallons" or non-useful terms such as "makes 5 gallons into fermentor". In your kit aboe there seems to be no info on volumes from another quick scan. One whirfloc tablet is way too much for a normal brew of about 6 gallons VAW. One tablet in a bit over 1 gallon VAW is completely out of control and could well be the cause of all your astringency problems***.
Use the BIABacus and the Clear Brewing Terminology thread for your next brew. These give you non-vague (solid) building blocks to understand and operate your brewhouse properly.
Full volume (pure BIAB) your brew. There is no reason why you can't full volume brew that I can see so make sure you do that. Not doing it causes so many problems both actual and potential.
Write in both US and Metric. Using the BIABacus and it's reports will make this point unnecessary as it will display both units simultaneously. Anything that does not, really limits the level of advice you will recieve.
****
I suspect this is the right answer Slaw but even though you have given excellent detail in your posts above, you haven't been given the right tools to make it easy for us to find your problem. For example, if this thread had started with your recipe in BIABacus form, someone would have immediately noticed that one whirfloc tablet is way too much for a one gallon into fermentor brew. On your next brew, definitely follow the pointeres I have written under, "So where does that leave you?"One whirfloc tablet is way too much for a normal brew of about 6 gallons VAW. One tablet in a bit over 1 gallon VAW is completely out of control and could well be the cause of all your astringency problems.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Feb 2015, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
Thanks, PistolPatch. I appreciate your feedback and will definitely be using BIABacus for my next brew. Hoping to brew this weekend so I will sit down and spend some quality time with the resources mentioned above. From everything I've read about BIABacus, it seems like it should give me a lot more structure. You're absolutely right that the kit recipe is fairly useless for anyone that is new to brewing.
I may be back with questions about putting my recipe together in BIABacus, but after looking over it a little this afternoon, I'm feeling pretty confident. And I know that if I follow the outputs there and still have issues, you all will have a much better shot at diagnosing the problem.
Thanks again!
I may be back with questions about putting my recipe together in BIABacus, but after looking over it a little this afternoon, I'm feeling pretty confident. And I know that if I follow the outputs there and still have issues, you all will have a much better shot at diagnosing the problem.
Thanks again!
