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Quick question

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by lawrenjl
Hello,

As indicated by my post count, I am a new here. I have a quick question: If I have a grain bill that is too large for my 10 gallon (42 qt) kettle, can I just get a different bag that fits my 72 qt cooler and "mash" in there? I am planning on doing the following: after the 90 minutes are up, just pull pull of the bag, let it drain for 20 minutes or squeezing the wort out of it, then transfer the sweet work into my brew kettle and finish up the batch.

Does this seem logical?

Thanks,

Joe
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Post #2 made 11 years ago
by mally
Welcome lawrenjl (Joe),

Is the grain bill too large, or the volume of mash too large? I am just checking here because that would be one mighty grain bill :think: :lol:

You could do what you mentioned, but IMHO it would be easier to MAXI BIAB.
If you were to use the BIABacus, you can withold liquid from the mash to add back after pulling the grains. (either top up or sparge the bag, your choice).
We would need a little more info to give the best advice (expected O.G., grain bill etc.)

Have you tried the BIABacus yet?
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Welcome to the forum Joe,

Yes that is one way, if you can hit you mash temperature okay.

What much volume of sweet wort do you need at the start of the boil, what is the grain bill weight?

:peace:

MS
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Joe, your thinking is logical but the advantage is nowhere near as much as you are probably imagining...

Firstly, I am assuming you are talking pure BIAB here (SMS brewing - simultaneous mash and sparge - full volume brewing ;)).

Let's pretend for a second that in your one and only vessel (your kettle), you are prepared to fill it to the brim (just over-flowing) for the SMS. What happens when you pull the bag?

The bag full of grist comes out and leaves a little bit of space but not that much. (That's why the guys above are mentioning the BIABacus as it shows all those measurements but it requires some study).

So, you pull your bag and there is a bit of space left in the kettle but not much...

Now think about using a cooler/esky that is larger than your kettle. What will you gain? Pretty much nothing. For example, with a 5 kilogram (11 pounds) grain bill, your cooler will only be of advantage if it is about three liters bigger than your kettle. Anything more will be a waste of space and this is a generous estimate for reasons I won't go into here.

...

The above might take a few reads to digest. Once you do understand it, then the prior posts in the thread will also start to make more sense.

This stuff is not easy* so don't be worried about asking heaps of questions Joe.

:peace:
PP

* Very few people, even on this site, know that mashing in a cooler that is larger than your kettle is of minimal/no advantage. We still haven't worked out a nice analogy/visualisation/explanation for this so your first question on this site is certainly nothing to be timid about. It's a very good one :clap:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Oct 2014, 20:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

Post #5 made 11 years ago
by safebrew222
PistolPatch wrote:
* Very few people, even on this site, know that mashing in a cooler that is larger than your kettle is of minimal/no advantage. We still haven't worked out a nice analogy/visualisation/explanation for this so your first question on this site is certainly nothing to be timid about. It's a very good one :clap:.
PP (or anyone else for that matter)...

Trying to wrap my head around this last one... let me know if I'm the right track.

Doing the SMS in a cooler larger than the boil kettle is of no advantage because, for the vast majority of the beer styles, we are always mashing in roughly the same amount of volume of water. If we do have such a large mash volume to fill the larger cooler, we would never be able to fit all the sweet wort in our kettle to boil it...:?:
Last edited by safebrew222 on 18 Oct 2014, 01:26, edited 1 time in total.

Quick question

Post #6 made 11 years ago
by lawrenjl
Thanks all for the candid replies. I have a lot to learn and will be asking lots of questions. My cooler question came from creating a fake brew Oma biab calculator which indicated a 13lb grain bill would overflow my 42 quart brew kettle if I wanted to do a full volume mash. This is why I asked about the cooler where I can heat up the proper amount of water and create wort. Then transfer 7 gallons or so into my kettle and proceed as normal. I think I need to rethink my options as there is a ton to learn.
-joe
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
by joshua
Joe, 13 pounds of Grain, when completely soaked with water, Normally Takes 1.5 quarts of Volume per Pound of grain.

The grain bill will take around 20 Quarts of Volume, and your looking to have 7 Gallons/28 Quarts into the Kettle.

The 42 Quart kettle can carry the 20 Quarts of wet grain Bill Plus another 20 Quarts of mash water, and leave a little Head space.

If you have another Container to carry ALL the TWN, you could put the bag in the kettle, add the Grain, and add 25-30 Quarts of the TWN, and then Mash.

When you mash time is over, Mash-out and pull the Bag and squeeze the *^&(^* out of it, and Add the remaining TWN,and move on the the Boil.

We once called this process Maxi-BIAB, it Worked Very well for Me.

Sorry to pull the Air from Mally in Post#2.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Quick question

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by lawrenjl
Thanks. Seems like I am ok by using my brew kettle and not needing my cooler. I will be doing my first biab next weekend with a 9lb grain bill. I can't wait to try this technique.

Thank you again for the insight.

Joe
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
safebrew222 wrote:...If we do have such a large mash volume to fill the larger cooler, we would never be able to fit all the sweet wort in our kettle to boil it...:?:
Very nice :salute:. Yep, that's it.

Imagine your grain bill as a sponge. When you drop it in a bucket of water,it doesn't add that much volume. When you pull it out, it removes some volume but not a huge amount. So, the only advantage a cooler/esky will have, is if it is a tiny bit bigger than your kettle. That tiny advantage is insignificant and in fact, you will lose a lot of control such as control of temperature and deadspace with a cooler/esky.

The tiny volume advantage increases as they OG goes up but it is still pretty insignificant. For example, brewing a 1.045 OG brew (assuming no dilutions) as dropping one sponge in the bucket of water and brewing a 1.090 OG batch as dropping two sponges in the bucket. In other words, the larger the grain bill, the more liquid you will pull out with it but it is still insignificant.

VOM versus VIB in Section K of the BIABacus will show you how little of an advantage employing a cooler/esky is.

Section W - 'Full Volume Variations - FVV' (the old 'maxi-BIAB that joshua mentioned) allows you to stray from using all your water (liquor) up front but... everything you type in to that section has some sort of cost so be careful (research 'Sweet Liquor Shop posts')!

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Oct 2014, 22:28, edited 1 time in total.
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