DaveDoran wrote:Thanks.
Have scaled it back due to doing 23L brew rather than original 26.5l.

I have it looking like this;

Excellent thanks MS,

Noticed you changed the hop time to 120min. Is that to allow for no chill?

DaveDoran wrote:Excellent thanks MS,

Noticed you changed the hop time to 120min. Is that to allow for no chill?

It's splitting hairs actually. The AHA recipe is for 7 gallons and yours is too at flameout, so you could throw in the 1.85 ounces (52 grams). There is only a 2% utilization difference between 60 and 120 mins. Those hops are completely utilized up, regardless.

BobBrews doesn't put his bittering hops in a hop bag/sock, so they get transferred to his no chill container. He does put his flavor and finishing hops in a bag and pulls the bag sometime before 15 mins. after flameout.

DaveDoran wrote:Tried to scale it down using maths and my brain. Doesn't always work out so good.

Haven't had a ramble in this thread for a while so here's a few things for you Dave...

Firstly, the BIABacus is a scaler as well as many other things so if you find yourself having to use your brain, then you are using the BIABacus incorrectly. The BIABacus is really very easy.

For example, all you had to do to input the grains was input the actual weights from the original recipe just as MS did. Easy peasy!!!

On the 120 minute hops thing, I'd keep it at 90 mins or preferably 75 for a few reasons. Firstly, you don't want to over-cook hops. I never do any of mine over 75 mins. (That also gives the boil a chance to settle down.) Secondly, the effect of the additional time is minimal, if anything at all - the formulas are not great. Thirdly, the BIABacus should really have a focus on what the original brewer did rather than matching dodgy numbers ).

[I'm just looking at your file and I see some actuals have been filled in even though the brew hasn't been done yet. Assume you are just playing around which is great. Just noticed though, three zeros in Section N. Just leave that section blank. You really need to only touch that on brew day if at all.]

As for the Award Winning Recipe Itself

What could possibly be wrong?

Look Dave, there will be nothing wrong with you brewing this recipe. What I want to do though is pull that recipe completely apart, info-wise, so that you and others will learn the following...

1. Disrespect the authority of a published recipe.
2. Learn to respect and look for a general theme.
3. Trust yourself when you come across stuff that makes no sense.

I am going to start a new thread on the Sitzung Helles recipe once I have pulled it apart. Will link when done. Here's the link!

PP

cwier60,

Bells Two Hearted IPA! I have been lucky enough to have been at a party (at a posh restaurant) that had a keg of Bells Two Hearted IPA fresh from the brewery. I sat at the bar and paid plenty for that beer! It was heavenly! Even my crappy weak-ass taste buds were happy! If you can brew a clone of it, and it tastes close to the original. You are in for a treat! Good luck!

cwier60, Here is my recipe thread for Bells Two Hearted; http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 183#p31709

There is a link there for one ricipe I based it off of.

Just don't use my hop bill Don't ask me how I know...



MS

cwier60, this post by Nuff gives info on all the different ways of finding the latest pre-release that is suitable for general consumption.

I'm with you in the smooth hop flavour and aroma. Yum. Btw, do a 90 minute boil or at least 75 minutes.

PP, thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay, but was just able to sit down to this today.

b) 90-minute boil - will try next time, i've never done one before.

D: regarding volumes, when i'm throwing a recipe together i just try to aim for getting about 17-18L of final product since that's what seems to fit nicely into my keg. The hops looked like that because i was screwing around with beersmith and biabacus, appreciating the difference in calculations between the two as i fiddled with the additions and timings.

E: Change 152 C to 66.7 C.
--yikes, thanks. You should see my brewing log: it's a mess of kg, lbs, grams, oz, F and C...

H: 21 days is too long for fermenting an ale. 14 days is heaps.
-- yeah, one month is my pipeline cycle average. everything i'm reading indicates there's no real harm in leaving the wort in primary for an extra few days while i wait for my friends to finish off the current keg. After 3 weeks i usually add gelatin and cold crash for another week.

As far as the trub management part goes, i still am a bit confused. I think my confusion is because when i was doing this, i was screwing around with section X. If i adjust KFL to 0L and packaging loss to 3.67L (in section X), it changes my grain bill. But if i change KFL in section L to 0, then it doesn't change the grain bill. Lesson: don't screw around with section X!

Hi All,

Looking for feedback on these ingredients. Its for a brewclub meeting for a brew using all Australian made ingredients (Australian grown Cascade). Just wondering if anyone has tried these ingredients together and if they work.
Thanks.

cweir60 and DaveDoran's posts above have not been dealt with yet. You guys bump if you don't get an answer soon. I'll deal with the following now...

toklas wrote:PP, thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay, but was just able to sit down to this today.

b) 90-minute boil - will try next time, i've never done one before. Do an advanced search of my posts that contain the word boil. There should be an explanation there in the last three or four months - I hope!

D: regarding volumes, when i'm throwing a recipe together i just try to aim for getting about 17-18L of final product since that's what seems to fit nicely into my keg. The hops looked like that because I was screwing around with beersmith and biabacus, appreciating the difference in calculations between the two as I fiddled with the additions and timings. That answer is not making sense for me.

E: Change 152 C to 66.7 C.
--yikes, thanks. You should see my brewing log: it's a mess of kg, lbs, grams, oz, F and C... No problem

H: 21 days is too long for fermenting an ale. 14 days is heaps.
-- yeah, one month is my pipeline cycle average. everything i'm reading indicates there's no real harm in leaving the wort in primary for an extra few days while i wait for my friends to finish off the current keg. After 3 weeks i usually add gelatin and cold crash for another week.

As far as the trub management part goes, i still am a bit confused. I think my confusion is because when i was doing this, i was screwing around with section X. If i adjust KFL to 0L and packaging loss to 3.67L (in section X), it changes my grain bill. But if i change KFL in section L to 0, then it doesn't change the grain bill. Lesson: don't screw around with section X! Section L is an "actuals" section so there is no way it will change your grain bill. In other words, section L can't be completed until you do your brew.

And one last thing...

I just noticed that my last post to you had a link error in it. Please let me know if you want me to correct it.

Cheers,
PP

cwier60 wrote:I decided to modify my Bell's Two Hearted recipe to be more inline with the hop schedule discussed on here on Homebrewtalk. I based my hops additions on the post from Hammy71; the linked original recipe from eschatz had the same grain bill as in the previous references. My BIABacus is attached. One thing I found interesting is that Hammy71 cited 55 IBUs, even though the BIABacus reports 47.4. I used some other IBU calculators to confirm the 55 IBUs for the volume I referenced, so I decided not to try to adjust BIABacus for 55 IBUs. This seemed like plenty of hops as is.

This is only my 2nd BIAB and AG brew, but I have to say I'm impressed with the accuracy of the calculations. Other than the fact that my evaporation was slightly higher than predicted, which is why I decided to dump virtually all the VAW into the fermentor because there was no "thick" trub, almost everything was spot on. My file shows my measurements. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Your BIABacus looks good and converted well based on jdeiro's file.

If you are seeking another opinion, I would go for a 90 mins. boil and use hammy71 hop schedule. I would go for that 55 IBU, just remove the VAW value and enter a 55 in section D.

cwier60 wrote: This is only my 2nd BIAB and AG brew, but I have to say I'm impressed with the accuracy of the calculations. Other than the fact that my evaporation was slightly higher than predicted, which is why I decided to dump virtually all the VAW into the fermentor because there was no "thick" trub, almost everything was spot on. My file shows my measurements. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Let us know how this turns out and what your VIP turns out to be. How did you calculate your split between KFL and VIF?

Hi Guys,

Just looking to try a LCPA Clone I got from AHB forums and now putting into BIABicus. Hoping someone can run an eye over this as well as answer a few Questions I have.

Original Recipe is as below and BIABIcus file attached, however the Questions I have are -

1 - Original Recipe says it is a 23L batch size. Have put that into BIABicus and also I want to achieve a 23L VIF, however I don't understand why BIABicus increases the Hops Schedule by so much. if the recipe is supposedly for the same sized batch? The Grain Bill increases by only a small amount so is negligible however the hop calculations increases by about 15%. That to me is a big increase.

2 - Ran out of space in BIABicus for the Hop Bill in this recipe. Any ways you guys get around this? I have put into notes for now but just wondering what others do

PS: Will probably hold a bit of water back form the mash this time to prevent Wicking but haven't added that to BIABIcus yet as I more want to find out the answer to question # 1 especially on hop adjustments.

Cheers

ORIGINAL RECIPE:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: LFPA House Batch
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 29.95 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 12.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 47.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (6.0 EBC) Grain 70.18 %
1.10 kg Munich I Malt (Weyermann�) (14.5 EBC) Grain 19.30 %
0.30 kg Carapils� Malt (Weyermann�) (4.0 EBC) Grain 5.26 %
0.30 kg Wheat Malt Pale (Weyermann�) (4.0 EBC) Grain 5.26 %

30.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 14.9 IBU
5.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 7.1 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
15.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
25.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
20.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -

1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.70 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 32.00 L of water at 67.9 C 65.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 2 min 75.6 C


Notes:
------
NC Cube adjustments - minus 15 mins from all additions
10 min and 5 min done as french press into fermenter at pitching

Hi Bundy,

Im very new to using the biabacus so probably not the most knowledgeable about biabacus but I noticed a difference in the 20min additions. The beersmith recipes has the Cascade and Chinook at 10g each. Noticed on the biabacus these were inputted as 20g each. I also filled in the Bitterness adjust box in Section D. This set the qtys up to achieve the desired ibu.

Have attached my changes.

bundy wrote:Hi Guys,

Just looking to try a LCPA Clone I got from AHB forums and now putting into BIABicus. Hoping someone can run an eye over this as well as answer a few Questions I have.

Original Recipe is as below and BIABIcus file attached, however the Questions I have are -

1 - Original Recipe says it is a 23L batch size. Have put that into BIABicus and also I want to achieve a 23L VIF, however I don't understand why BIABicus increases the Hops Schedule by so much. if the recipe is supposedly for the same sized batch? The Grain Bill increases by only a small amount so is negligible however the hop calculations increases by about 15%. That to me is a big increase.

2 - Ran out of space in BIABicus for the Hop Bill in this recipe. Any ways you guys get around this? I have put into notes for now but just wondering what others do

PS: Will probably hold a bit of water back form the mash this time to prevent Wicking but haven't added that to BIABIcus yet as I more want to find out the answer to question # 1 especially on hop adjustments.

Cheers

ORIGINAL RECIPE:
BeerSmith Recipe Printout -

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 29.95 L
Estimated IBU: 47.8 IBU

Ingredients:
------------
30.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 14.9 IBU
5.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 7.1 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
15.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
25.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
20.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -

Hey Bundy, DaveDoran got you sorted out on the hop entry error, you had a couple of typos there. I fixed them in the file I am attaching...

Good job on filling out the BIABacus. Looks like you are the first to put this into the BIABacus. The term "batch size" on the internet could mean anyone of the following - what the brewer measured at flameout, the volume he put into the fermentor or what he got as a finished product.

I went into troubleshooting mode on your file
I set the efficiency to 75% and VIF to 21 L, this gave me 30.41 L VIK. The internet recipe listed 29.95 L as a boil size (this is close enough for me - more recent versions of the BIABacus uses the terminology as VIB, Volume into Boil)

When I did this, I couldn't find a 23 L "batch size" obvious on the BIABacus (maybe at EOBV-A - or VAW, Volume of Ambient Wort). Maybe this internet brewer had more evaporation. But I ramble...

With the two entry changes (VIF and efficiency), I then matched the EOBV-A in section K (24.50 L) to section D and presto the IBU Tinseth changed to 47.5, matching the recipe close enough.

Remove troubleshooting mode on your file
Remove the 75% efficiency and change the VIF back to what you want. Also, enter the AA% of the hops you get into the substitutions column. That should get you sorted mate.



MS

DaveDoran wrote:Hi All,

Looking for feedback on these ingredients. Its for a brewclub meeting for a brew using all Australian made ingredients (Australian grown Cascade). Just wondering if anyone has tried these ingredients together and if they work.
Thanks.

bump
Thanks

w6csmith wrote: Also as the first time using the BIABacus as well would really appreciate it if someone could cast their eye over it to chaco I haven't made any silly mistakes.

It's recommended to do a 90 mins. mash and boil. What is a "chaco"?

Mad_Scientist wrote:

bundy wrote: I went into troubleshooting mode on your file


With the two entry changes (VIF and efficiency), I then matched the EOBV-A in section K (24.50 L) to section D and presto the IBU Tinseth changed to 47.5, matching the recipe close enough.

Remove troubleshooting mode on your file
Remove the 75% efficiency and change the VIF back to what you want. Also, enter the AA% of the hops you get into the substitutions column. That should get you sorted mate.



MS

MS and Dave, Firstly thanks for both of you for taking a look at this for me. I'm glad you understand the methodology in deciphering all this.

There's obviously a lot more to migrating files to BIABIcus than just typing in the raw grain and hop numbers. (Which I still managed to make a typo with as first picked up by Dave)

Anyway I've removed that Efficiency % as you suggest, set my desired Volumes and adjusted the Boil time to 90 mins as that seems to be recommended these days. (Not sure where 60 came from, probably an old file) Now get on to ordering my supplies.

Thanks again


PS: I have posted the modified file back here again in case anyone else wants it.


PPS: This is more for PistolPatch but it just occurred to me a nice feature to have in BIABIcus on a future release possibly, would be a button or something to reset all values / variables to their defaults. (Or even better copy Pre Set values from one of the Tabs, (so each brewer could configure in their own defaults if required, such as Kettle size etc ) I find as I change from recipe to recipe it would be nice to clear down all the things form the last recipe so I start with a Clean file and don't leave a setting in their that shouldn't be there.
Maybe though already thought of and discarded due to the no Macros policy, but just a thought.

bundy, That was me who changed it to 60 mins., as part of the troubleshooting mode, as it was stated in the original recipe. Good catch ;-)

w6csmith, we'll get to you soon if no one else does . I have some other bits to do though today so it might be a bit of a wait.

[center]Compare this post with my next post.[/center]

Howdy bundy ,

I want to go through a few of your questions above and just re-emphasise/combine/add to points already made above.

Original Recipe says it is a 23L batch size. Have put that into BIABacus and also I want to achieve a 23L VIF, however I don't understand why BIABicus increases the Hops Schedule by so much. if the recipe is supposedly for the same sized batch? The Grain Bill increases by only a small amount so is negligible however the hop calculations increases by about 15%. That to me is a big increase.

Several reasons exist here but they essentially boil down to the fact that you are starting from a low integrity recipe source which most recipes and software reports on the net are. Please read A perfect example of a low integrity recipe.

Your original recipe is of low to medium integrity because...

1. The recipe report does not define whether batch size means report does not define batch size means Volume of Ambient Wort (the cooled end of boil volume) or Volume into Fermentor. Some users mean VAW and others mean VIF. (Long story). If they mean VIF then you don't know their VIB from that report and that is the critical number. Read above link.

2. Mash and boil times of 60 minutes are not best practice.

3. Koppafloc and PH5.2 are more indications that the original brewer might be inexperienced.

Later I will come back to your original question here but first...

There's obviously a lot more to migrating files to BIABacus than just typing in the raw grain and hop numbers.

It doesn't matter what program you are using. If you are copying a recipe that lacks the right info in the first place, you will be in for a hard time. The BIABacus is a lot better actually because it is better at forcing you into finding whether you are using a dodgy recipe. (For example, the first line in Section D is needed to copy any recipe accurately but you try finding that number in an original recipe.)

Also, imagine if you copied your original recipe into another program with equally ambiguous terminology (batch size for example), you would just unwittingly copy the batch size number to the next program without realising they could mean two totally different things.

The BIABacus is faster, safer, easier and more powerful than anything out there. Itis the other programs, software reports that make things hard as you will see. For example, let's go back to your first question...

You were asking why the hop bill increased but the grain bill didn't. Several reasons for this...

Firstly, you are not comparing like to like (VAW to VAW). I'll have to write another section on this below. (See how much trouble and time poor recipe reports cost?)

Secondly, let's say we are producing the same VAW. If my system has better kettle efficiency than yours then I will need the same amount of hops as you but less grain because I get more 'sugars' out of my grain than you do.

Comparing Apples with Apples (VAW to VAW).

The first line of Section D is the Volume of Ambient Wort. It equals your Volume into Fermentor plus your Kettle to Fermentor Loss (KFL).

As mentioned above, your recipe does not make it clear whether we have actually been given a VIB number. One powerful feature of the BIAbacus is that an advanced user can within seconds often investigate this and get an answer. I have a little advantage over Mad_Scientist as I know many of the flaws in BeerSmith so within a few seconds, I was able to see the following...

It looks like the original brewer has set up their equipment profile (unnecessary in the BIABacus) so that by 23 litres means VIF BUT they also have set their KFL to zero. So their VAW is 23 litres but in your BIABacus, it is 23.0 VIF plus 3.83 KFL = 26.83 L.

Other Notes

LCPA changes from time to time their hop varieties depending on availability. Amarillo is one as is a Tasmanian one I can't remember the name of.

As for your suggestion re blanking out the BIABacus, we had this button in an earlier version. You could even import and export recipes but it would work on some platforms and not others. Always save your self a Master file and as soon as you open that to do some work, save it under a different name.

In the next post we'll see what you would have had to do if you were given this recipe in BIABacus format.