Hahaha. See you're having fun there MS . Great post from Lylo on the attenuation thing too.

For quick reference some issues of a fine grind and a collection of gravity figures at different mash times

It's certainly possible that gravity doesn't increase on a floury grind after a short time but I really would like to taste the resulting beer. ANother thing for the side by side list but a pretty low priority for me at least .

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[MODNOTE: Any posts regarding mally's fine crush experiment have been copied to Fine versus Normal Crush Experiment.Please reply there.]

I "almost" signed up to make comments but just couldn't do it

I am certainly interested in a little experiment though, just to see one way or another.
i was thinking of pulverising the grain in a blender, then sieving the flour to see if I can remove any of the husk material (chaff).

Small sample, something like 250g, to make a 1L VIF (not wasting 5Kg), mash at 65C, take gravity measurements at 1 minute intervals until no change.
Normal fermentation, see what the hell it tastes like.

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Go for it. That would be great mally but...

Don't separate the husks. Pulverise everything and add the whole lot - that is what they are doing. This will avoid any weight comparison issues assuming you can do a side by side (which you'd need to do) and will also help show if there is a tannin issue.

The experiment would not only need to be a side by side one but would have to be repeated a few times on different styles.

Never easy eh?

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It was this attitude from many HBT'ers that prompted me to cancel my subscription last year and donate it to hte BIABrewer cause. Actually I found the AHB site even worse in regards to BIAB!

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We tried, THANKS EVERYONE!!!

I think they brought in their people too for the fight, haha...

Okay, really people? RM-MN and company, who is Pat and the founder of BIAB, WE NO LISTEN TO STINKING PODCASTS

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Okay WOWIE.

I didn't read any of the posts since lylo's post #17, until now.

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Then we offer the red pill/blue pill.

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Well that was an "interesting" read.

You guys try to help someone and all they do is spit back in your face. Not to worry, I think the best comment in the thread was the guy never brews the same beer twice.

Probably because it tastes like "Cats Pi$$" and he couldn't stomach it!

As a wise man said
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”


Or in my simple terms, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

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I'm going to Colorado to "ski", it's different indeed.

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Mad_Scientist wrote:

Rick wrote:I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

You took the red pill, right?

I certainly hope so. I'm red/green colorblind, so technically I would have to reach for the "not blue pill".

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Misinformation Posts About BIAB

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Misinformation Posts About BIAB

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Just to play devils advocate here

What if there is some truth in fine crushing? What parameters are required for it to work/not work (if any)?

I can easily believe that powdered malt converts much quicker. In fact I wrote a few years back that you could theoretically brew with no bag if you could somehow de-husk the barley and just add to your kettle the endosperm & embryo (separating pericarp, testa, aleurone) etc. Though I guess it cannot be done easily (or inexpensively).
The question for me though is, what does the resulting beer taste like? Is it repeatable, robust, suitable for all styles, and what other effects are there? trub etc.

I do plan to test this myself soon (no promises here) but this is what I propose;
side by side experiment where I use the same ingredients at the same time under the same conditions.
One batch of the malt is used as is supplied by the LHBS; pre-crushed.
The other batch is blitzed in a food processor into a fine powder.
Both are mashed & boiled at the same time.
During the mash, take regular gravity readings to plot progress (of both). I think 1 minute intervals will be too difficult to achieve, as I will have to closely monitor temps as well.

Here is the recipe

FEEL MY CRUSH

Brewer: Mally
Style: (OGK) “only god knows”

ABV: 4.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.040
IBU's (Tinseth): 35
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.87
Colour: 6.3 EBC = 3.2 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 94.5 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 81 %

Mash: 90 mins at 66 C, Boil: 60 min, Ferment: 7 days at 18 C = 64.4 F

Total Water Needed (TWN): 3.13 L
Volume into Boil (VIB): 3.15 L @ 1.015
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 1.17 L @ 1.04
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 1 L @ 1.04
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 0.93 L @ 1.01 attenuation of 75 %

100% PILSNER MALT (5 EBC = 2.5 SRM) 167 grams

33.3 IBU CLUSTER Pellets (7.3%AA) 1.9 grams at 60 mins
1.7 IBU CLUSTER Pellets (7.3%AA) 2.3 grams at 1 mins

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): for 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 3.19 L at 66.5 C
Mashout for 10 mins at 78 C

Hopsock Used: n
Chilling Method: NATURAL/AIR COOL

Fermentation: St Austell for 7 days at 18 C = 64.4 F

Secondary Used: n
Crash-Chilled: n
Filtered: n
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Serving Temp: 6 C = 42.8 F
Condition for 30 days.
Consume within 12 months.

Any comments, theories, suggestions, or corrections? please feel free to contribute

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Thanks Joshua, I may get around to looking into that (I noticed your new thread too)

However for this grain crush experiment; I have only gone and done it!
There are some good and bad points to it but I think that goes with the territory with experiments.

I decided to go for 150g Weyermann Pilsner malt in 2L water (TWN), one as normal, one "blitzed" in a blender, more info to follow after some pics;

NORMAL CRUSH.jpg

150g of normal crushed grain as is from the LHBS.

BLENDER.jpg

150g of normal grain after approx 30 seconds in a blender

BLITZED.jpg

The same grain in a tub, just to show that I lost 1g in the transfer.

TWN.jpg

Scales are "tared" with empty pan(s) and filled with 2Kg water (2L nominal).

DUAL MASH.jpg

Both pans are brought up to mashing temps (approx 66C) bags located and grain tipped in. Mash is at 65C after dough in.
The first interesting thing I noticed was that the "blitzed" grain formed doughballs very easily. No big problem though, just took a little longer to thoroughly mix in.

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