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Misinformation Posts About BIAB

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Today's quote from a moderator on a BIAB Brewing thread from another forum ---

"I think that most people who do a no-sparge type of brewing settle for a lower efficiency. I think 75% is a bit high for an efficiency with no-sparge, but something like 65% is probably reasonable. I'd reset my software for 65% for the next batches to predict a more likely OG.

If you want a higher efficiency, you could sparge or squeeze the grainbag more or boil more volume. I'm not one to chase efficiency- it is what it is, and you can just go with 65% and add another pound or two of grain and have no worries at all."
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 19 Sep 2014, 06:17, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by jhough
MS, of course this person does not understand the process very well.Or , he/she has never done a true BIAB batch with the proper sparge and boil times of 90 minutes. :headhit: :headhit:
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by mally
Richard; you have got to let me know that website.
With quality information like that I need to sign up right now!
:sneak: :sneak: :sneak:
OK.... that was English humour (sarcasm).

I hope Pat doesn't see it. Years & years of dedication to terminology, quality of information etc. etc. He would surely pull his hair out!!
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by mally
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Last edited by mally on 02 May 2014, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Lylo
Wow, right on Rick. I have always liked Yooper and respected her comments. I guess it is sort of like meeting John Daly. Not quite what you hoped for or expected.
AWOL

Post #8 made 10 years ago
by smyrnaquince
jhough wrote:MS, of course this person does not understand the process very well.Or , he/she has never done a true BIAB batch with the proper sparge and boil times of 90 minutes. :headhit: :headhit:
Um, I thought we've tried really hard to define BIAB as full-volume, with no separate sparge step. I hope that is what you meant by "proper sparge"!

I suspect that they were trying to do a direct comparison of a 60-minute boil between a 3V mash+sparge and a full-volume BIAB.

If, given the same grain bill, a 3V mash+sparge for a 60-minute boil and a full-volume BIAB for a 90-minute boil extract the same amount of sugar, then the extraction efficiences would be the same, but the amount of sugar extracted per unit volume of pre-boil wort would be different, with BIAB coming out lower.

It can be hard not to make apples and oranges comparisons. When most 3V-ers talk about BIAB, they consider it as an exact drop-in replacement for a traditional mash and do not take into account things like a longer 90-minute boil (instead of their standard 60-minute boil) and the concomitant increase in mash water volume and pre-boil wort volume.

Either way, though, 65% extraction efficiency?! That does sound a bit low.
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 03 May 2014, 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Many of us here are on that site too. I felt bad about posting this last night. I didn't want to delete it afterwards because Pat would see it in the logs and think it was about him. :lol:

I was trying to help the OP. Oh well.

But wait, I just got a 'like' on that post, somebody likes me, yay... :smoke: :whistle: :party:
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
by jhough
smyrnaquince wrote:
jhough wrote:MS, of course this person does not understand the process very well.Or , he/she has never done a true BIAB batch with the proper sparge and boil times of 90 minutes. :headhit: :headhit:
Um, I thought we've tried really hard to define BIAB as full-volume, with no separate sparge step. I hope that is what you meant by "proper sparge"!

I suspect that they were trying to do a direct comparison of a 60-minute boil between a 3V mash+sparge and a full-volume BIAB.

If, given the same grain bill, a 3V mash+sparge for a 60-minute boil and a full-volume BIAB for a 90-minute boil extract the same amount of sugar, then the extraction efficiences would be the same, but the amount of sugar extracted per unit volume of pre-boil wort would be different, with BIAB coming out lower.

It can be hard not to make apples and oranges comparisons. When most 3V-ers talk about BIAB, they consider it as an exact drop-in replacement for a traditional mash and do not take into account things like a longer 90-minute boil (instead of their standard 60-minute boil) and the concomitant increase in mash water volume and pre-boil wort volume.

Either way, though, 65% extraction efficiency?! That does sound a bit low.
Last edited by jhough on 03 May 2014, 10:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by jhough
:headhit: :headhit: :idiot: :idiot: :headhit: Guess I need my 12 year old to help me with this computer :think: :think: I was trying to say I was typing while NOT thinking on that one ! Sorry bout that . You are correct , BIAB is full volume ,and I do apologize . Hope this doesn't sound like I think it does.
Joe
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
by Adman1966
Unfortunately we see lots of bad advice from experienced brewers who are excellent in some areas but misinformed in others. I think it's down to a lack of personal experience and rehashing advice given by others without a proper understanding of the subject, just to make sure a question gets answered on the forums.

Good advice in invaluable, bad advice is at best misleading but can also result in methods and practices being either ignored or followed blindly just because someone with a lot of experience says so!

It shows how fortunate we are here as the information passed on has been thoroughly tested. Also any errors are corrected before they can take on a life of there own.

I for one am a much better brewer because of my knowledgeable fellow BIAB brewers.

Thank you all.
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Post #13 made 10 years ago
by Rick
After all of that, somebody goes and agrees with Yooper's post with no data to support it.


This is how I feel posting in that thread.
Image
Last edited by Rick on 03 May 2014, 20:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
by Pat
Just read through this thread and the thread it refers to. You know what strikes me the most?

There are actually three great posters in that thread - Mad-Scientist, lumpysoh and Conestoga. That's about as high a quality as you will get on any other forum. In most threads you will not even find one informed/high quality poster.

The only thing I could recommend posting in that thread is a link to the "BIAB Legacy" Basic Brewing Radio podcast. (At time of writing it is the second one down here.) It covers pretty much all the issues in that thread.

Can someone do that?

...

Also, I see that MS feels a little bad about starting this topic. It's a very good topic but we don't want to disparage anyone unnecessarily here. If anyone wants me to go through the thread and remove identities then send me a PM. I'm happy though leaving names up of posters on other forums that continually and actively post misinformation.

Cheers,
Pat
Last edited by Pat on 03 May 2014, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
Are you a "Goodwill Brewer?" Pay forward and Buy Some BIPs ;)

Post #15 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Conestoga is me, btw. Reason those are all quality posters, is because the 3 of us hang out here. :D
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Post #16 made 10 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
I may have to leave this site. Woody has convinced me to go to his blog and buy his book on BIAB. I guess this site has it wrong! !

BTW link to podcast posted.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
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Post #17 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
LMAO... :lol:

Found this from today (not from a moderator);

"I've quit doing 60 minute mashes, I've even quit doing 30 minute mashes, and instead have started doing 10 minute mashes. From what I can tell, my beers haven't suffered a bit from shortening the mash period but I have less temperature loss."

"When I get 85% efficiency with a 10 minute mash and 85% efficiency with a 30 minute mash that would seem to equate to equal extraction."
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Post #18 made 10 years ago
by Rick
If the old Jerry Springer Show had a homebrewing episode, I like to believe that person would be on it.
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Post #19 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Some more ramblings from the same poster, really loves to hear himself talk. He has gotten over 200 likes. Now that must be some very good advise. :lol:


"Um, just how long are you mashing that you need to control the mash temps with BIAB? Mill your grains really fine and cut your mash time down and forget the mash temperature control. Conversion really only takes a few minutes from when the enzymes get wet. If you mill fine, you can be converted in under 5 minutes." :lol:
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Post #21 made 10 years ago
by JackRussel
Mad_Scientist wrote:Some more ramblings from the same poster, really loves to hear himself talk. He has gotten over 200 likes. Now that must be some very good advise. :lol:


"Um, just how long are you mashing that you need to control the mash temps with BIAB? Mill your grains really fine and cut your mash time down and forget the mash temperature control. Conversion really only takes a few minutes from when the enzymes get wet. If you mill fine, you can be converted in under 5 minutes." :lol:
I will sometimes "like" a post when the person is saying something ridiculous, I'm cruel that way. If I thought there was a chance of them listening to reason, I'd try. I think I've seen the poster you are talking about on HBT.
Last edited by JackRussel on 17 May 2014, 05:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #22 made 10 years ago
by Yeasty
Mad_Scientist wrote:Some more ramblings from the same poster, really loves to hear himself talk. He has gotten over 200 likes. Now that must be some very good advise. :lol:


"Um, just how long are you mashing that you need to control the mash temps with BIAB? Mill your grains really fine and cut your mash time down and forget the mash temperature control. Conversion really only takes a few minutes from when the enzymes get wet. If you mill fine, you can be converted in under 5 minutes." :lol:
Give use a link MS, I can smell the fun in putting this guy right..
Last edited by Yeasty on 17 May 2014, 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #25 made 9 years ago
by Rick
Man, that guy brings up short mashes every chance he gets. As if he's some sort of pioneer or something. I asked him to back up his "experimental results" with a detailed scientific write up. Now, let's see him backpedal a bit. :D
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