Post #26 made 11 years ago
OK, PP, I hope you are sitting down. I think I understand. Things have advanced greatly while I have been out of the loop! :thumbs:

Based on several brews, though, I will have to change my evaporation rate in Section X. For my pot size and burner, I consistently get an evaporation rate higher than what was/is predicted by BIABacus (old/new). It always threw off my brews.

Post #27 made 11 years ago
Sorry about the slow reply Dave (and MS, will finally get to your question late today). That's great!!!

Reading that makes me think that most of your other questions might now be clear. Re the auto-efficiency terminology, in PR 1.4 (not released yet), we have changed that to, "auto-EIK". Later, written help will make that section and all the other sections easier.
smyrnaquince wrote:Based on several brews, though, I will have to change my evaporation rate in Section X. For my pot size and burner, I consistently get an evaporation rate higher than what was/is predicted by BIABacus (old/new). It always threw off my brews.
This is exactly how Section X should be used. Once you have done several brews, if your results differ significantly from the BIABacus, you can investigate why and/or change the estimates. For example, if your EIK is much lower than predicted, you need to ask why rather than just rushing in and blindly changing the estimate. With something like evaporation, if you have done enough brews, then it would be fine to go ahead and over-ride the default.

Note that evaporation rate varies considerably from day to day especially if you brew outside so don't expect to ever get your volume figures perfect on every brew.

Gotta run,
PP
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Post #28 made 11 years ago
I am converting a stout recipe that uses lactose. I entered the lactose into the grain bill. In Section Y, for the lactose I set FGDB = 100% and MC = 0.0. As far as I can tell, this allows the OG calculations to work correctly for scaling the recipe.

Lactose does not require any additional water in the mash and there is no water absorbed (lost) in the grain that is lost. Do we just let this go, figuring that it is a small portion of the total?

I know that I asked this question for an older incarnation of BIABacus, but I was wondering if it had been considered for the current version.

I figure we just choose to ignore this issue, but with everything being calculated so precisely, I want to at least point it out.

That reminds me of another question. Do flaked grains absorb (retain) any more water than normal grains?

Post #29 made 11 years ago
(Richard, your question is going to need a few beers I think and something has come up so I'm not going to have time to do that tonight. Sorry to keep delaying my answer but your question is first off the rank next time I get enough fuel on board :P).

smyrnaquince

No allowance has been made for extracts or things like lactose not absorbing any water. Doing so would require adding more fields again into the BIABacus and make it look even harder for no very important gain. Things like that really need to be done in a proper program rather than a spreadsheet. This would only become worth worrying about if you were doing a partial with say 50% extract or something. Otherwise, forget it.

Dunno about the flaked grains bit but I'm sure that any difference would be negligible especially when you consider lignin isn't really going to retain water.
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Post #30 made 11 years ago
That's OK. I am still pleased about the advance that lets me adjust the extract potential for the lactose so it is taken into account when calculating grain weights for hitting the OG.

Post #31 made 11 years ago
Good stuff Dave :salute:. I've cracked a beer now and so, as promised, will get stuck into Richard's question on PLG...
Mad_Scientist wrote:Estimated Pre-Lauter Gravity (PLG) in Section M
PP,
Just some of my thoughts here.

In my post #14 above, I was trying to find a corresponding VOLUME to the PLG, so my PLG reading was taken after my bag pull, 'A POST LAUTER GRAVITY'. After squeezing the grain and hop bags, as dry as possible, I took a head space measurement.

I noticed a bigger difference in this reading than the previous brew, only difference was a 6% auto-adjust offset. This got my attention, plus it's one of the three milestones to record.

With Sections U and V not working for keggles, atm, maybe I didn't calculate the VOLUME correctly and maybe the math formula is correct. :dunno:

I am taking a sample only to measure and record afterwards for the BIABacus. Others might make a decision to sparge, if their reading is low.

Hope this helps.
~richard

p.s. Afterwards, when I topped up to VIK, my gravity reading was spot-on to the GIK.
Thanks for being so patient Richard in waiting for an answer on this. I'm still struggling a bit to work out what the question is so bear with me if some of the below isn't helpful...

What is Pre-Lauter Gravity (PLG)?

Firstly, Pre-Lauter Gravity is the gravity of the wort (more correctly called 'sweet liquor' at this point) just before you pull the bag from your kettle. If you do a pure BIAB (full-volume mash) you will notice that PLG is exactly the same as Gravity into Kettle (GIK) because gravity is always the same immediately before and after pulling the bag. The only thing that pulling the bag and squeezing it affects is how much volume you end up with. It never affects gravity.

A pure BIAB'er could choose to ignore PLG completely in the BIABacus or they may like to use it as a double-check on their GIK. It is not a big thing to concentrate on*.

When estimated PLG does not equal estimated GIK

Estimated PLG and GIK will only ever not equal if, in Section W, a number has been put beside beside 'Water Used in a Sparge' and/or 'Water Added Before the Boil'. Playing around with this can teach you a lot. For example, download this file...
BIABacus PR1.3 - PLG Play Around.xls
Let's say you now put in 5 L beside 'Water Used in a Sparge'. Only two things will change. Strike Water Needed (SWN) changes because you are holding 5 litres back from the mash. And, PLG increases from 1.036 /6 to 1.042 /2 as the mash is more concentrated**.

Now move that 5 L from 'Water Used in a Sparge' to 'Water Added Before the Boil'. The above things will change as well as two more things. The amount of grams of grain under 'What You Will Use' in Section C will increase slightly as will TWN and SWN (ever so slightly). The reason for these extra changes is that the brew becomes less efficient when any water does not contact (and therefore 'wash') the grain directly.

** In reality, PLG will be lower than that displayed in the BIABacus when a sparge is involved. In fact, the more water you use in 'Water Used in a Sparge' the bigger the discrepancy between estimated and actual PLG. Why? Because the mash becomes less efficient the more water you hold back from it. Obviously, if the held back water is later used in a sparge, then this 'loss of washing' is made up for.

A Maxi-BIAB'er could also choose to ignore PLG completely in the BIABacus or they may like to use it as a double-check. If they have done any sparging, the more water they have sparged with, the less accurate the PLG estimate will be. PLG, once again, is not a big thing to concentrate on*.

Why the hell is PLG in the BIABacus?

I think the above shows that PLG is not a very practical/useful number*. To a very few Maxi-BIABrewers, it will be educational but probably not much more.

From memory, I think I put PLG into the BIABacus so that brewers, especially Maxi-BIAB'ers, might know when their mash has reached it's potential. But, let's face it, none of us work like that. We all just mash for whatever time we have set and then see what we have scored.

* Maybe Not?

I want to think on this some more. Half of me wants to remove PLG from the BIABacus but after writing that last para, my thinking is returning to why I put it in - it could still well be a good idea that just got over-shadowed by other things.

And, it has also brought to mind something Dave mentioned above that I didn't answer. Will do that now.

Not sure if the above helps Richard. Let me know if we have at least narrowed the question down a bit.

;)
PP
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Post #32 made 11 years ago
Now that I finally had a crack at your question Richard, I'm going back to one thing I forgot of Dave's...
smyrnaquince wrote:You wrote, "EIK is the intelligent efficiency figure to focus on and the default used by the BIABacus is actually a bit low, not high." Is that default something that brewers with years of experience hit or one that we expect a new brewer to hit the first or second time out of the gate?
This was an important quote that got missed amongst all the other stuff. Let's have a closer look...

We know that there are two main efficiencies. One concerns efficiency into or in the kettle (EIK) and the other concerns efficiency into the fermentor (EIF). Elsewhere on this forum, we have seen how EIK is the primary/most valuable efficiency figure and that EIF is a very much secondary and not very valuable number despite it being often quoted or even used as the base of a lot of software.

You have asked if high efficiencies should only be expected by experienced brewers. Here's some points...

1. An inexperienced brewer should expect the same EIK's as an experienced brewer. If they are not, it will be one of the things listed here that is causing the problem.

2. EIF when compared to EIK can only tell you about your kettle trub losses. EIF should always be lower than EIK as there should always be, on an all-grain brew, some amount of kettle trub. Too little trub left in the kettle means more garbage in your fermentor. Too much kettle trub means you might not be getting enough of the good stuff out of your kettle and into the fermentor. The trick is finding the right balance. A very low EIF compared to EIK means that you are probably doing the latter. An EIF that closely matches EIK means that you are probably doing the former.

3. There are many ways to push EIK's to extremes. For example, you can drain and squeeze bags or mash tuns for hours on end. You can also boil for hours and hours. In fact any brewer can employ techniques that will give them EIK's of over 100%. They'll take you time, energy and give you crap beer. In other words, a brewer who scores very high efficiencies will not necessarily be the best brewer - probably far from it.

4. The defaults in the BIABacus are set about 5% low from what info we have gathered so far. The reason for this is that it is always best to end up with more of a higher gravity wort than more volume of a lower gravity wort. You can dilute a high gravity wort easily. The worst that can happen is that you end up pouring some wort down the drain if you end up with too much. Also, on a day that is not windy etc and you have a low evaporation rate, you won't end up with a weak wort.

:peace:
PP
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Post #33 made 11 years ago
Heresy coming up here, so feel free to skip this post. :o

I was thinking about the PLG discussion. If I take, say half of the total water needed (TWN) and list it instead as Water Used in a Sparge, then the whole BIABacus could be used by a traditional 3-vessel brewer. The PLG would be the gravity from the initial mash and GIK would be the gravity after the sparge.

Do 3-vessel brewers measure the PLG?

Has it occurred to anyone else that the Maxi-BIAB calculations can be used for 3-vessel brewing?

Post #34 made 11 years ago
PLG follow-up

In terms of the two Maxi-BIAB brews I did using the BIABacus, I was trying to 'pre-calculate' the volume I would have after pulling the bag. So to me, the gravity is the same at PLG and seconds after you pull (like you said). The loss of volume is the wetted grain, minus all the sweet liquor you can squeeze out.

.... so maybe could the PLG be replaced with After Mash-Out (AMO) *
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=286&start=1175#p29706
"Here's a few places you can measure efficiency 'sets' (volume and gravity) fairly practically...
1. After Mash-Out - Take a volume and gravity reading after you pull the bag. Use the Unit Conversion sheet of the BIABacus to convert your volume from mash to ambient. If you leave your bag hanging in a bucket to collect more wort, make sure you measure and add that volume of wort to your calcs."

* maybe calculate from Section E, if a mash-out is declared and display the kettle headspace volume?

Here are two links relating to efficiency, total gravity points and sugars (sugar).

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-qu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ost3539712
I ran into stux over on HBT, where he helped me with an efficiency question.
Start at the link above and then read stux's and my conversation to the end.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=286&start=1250#p30255
'Efficiency Post and Pics.pdf'
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Post #35 made 11 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:1. An inexperienced brewer should expect the same EIK's as an experienced brewer. If they are not, it will be one of the things listed here that is causing the problem.
How the heck can you remember a post you made 2 years ago? :shock:

What about the effect on EIK of stirring the mash? We had a discussion about pros/cons of stirring a while back.
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 07 Jun 2013, 08:29, edited 2 times in total.

Post #36 made 11 years ago
Dave and Richard, will try and answer what's come up in the last few posts here :peace:...

BIABacus will handle 3 Vessel Brewings and Extract Brews.

The BIABacus can handle 3v and extract brewing as well as BIAB and maxi-BIAB. Note that no other program can actually handle maxi-BIAB. It will not handle partials though.

Extract brewers need to do three things. In Section X, set auto-efficiency to 100%, set Volume Loss from Lauter to 0 and, in Section Y, make sure they put in their potentials for the extracts they are using.

3V brewers just need to change Volume Loss from Lauter to 1 l/kg. Strike Water Adjustment Factor allows for varius mah tun materials etc. Some 'mash' volume warnings won't work well however, a 3V brewer most limiting vessel is usually their kettle so, in most cases, the warnings will work well. Things like mash tun dead space can be worked around if they are even a factor.

As for PLG, most 3V brewers do not use it. The earliest measurement they would make is usually into the kettle. You'll hear of fly spargers taking readings but once again these are after PLG and, in reality, these readings are rarely taken.

ALso, as I mentioned in a post to Richard above, the more sparge water used in the BIABacus, the less that the BIABacus PLG reading can be relied on. However, I still think it would be more reliable than the gravities given in other programs for the simple fact that the BIABacus looks at how much water touches the grain in a brew and alters the EIK accordingly.

Maxi-BIAB Post-Pull Volume

Richard, you wrote, "In terms of the two Maxi-BIAB brews I did using the BIABacus, I was trying to 'pre-calculate' the volume I would have after pulling the bag."

This is really easy as the BIABacus has done most of the work for you already. On a brew where you have either used some water in a sparge and/or added water before the boil, your volume after pulling the bag is VIK less whatever numbers you have typed beside 'Water Used in a Sparge' and 'Water Added Before the Boil' in section W.

If you want to get super precise, then you'll have to do few adjustments for thermal expansion but you shouldn't be going to these extremes.

Respecting and Disrespecting Numbers

I had a look at those links Richard and one thing that worried me was that you were trying to work out why there was a 3% discrepancy between two sets of readings you took. This is totally normal. The smaller the brews, the harder things are to measure and the greater the discrepancy. So, if you were chasing up a 3% discrepancy, don't!!!!!!!!

As I said in my last post here, I mentioned that PLG is not that important. I also said that PLG is exactly the same as the gravity straight after you pull the bag regardless of what type of brew you are doing. Changing the name to AMO which does not include the word gravity probably won't gain anything.

Basically what I am saying here is that it is very important not to get lost in the numbers. They are a tool. Taking measurements pre-boil is okay but making adjustments on these readings is not.

Fast Ways of Checking Efficiency

The BIABacus checks efficiencies for you so my advice is for people to use that. You included a link to checking efficiencies by multiplying the gravity by the volume. We have several posts on this here as well. You've also included a link to a pdf I never finished :). The point about efficiency is that it can be approached from so many different points of views and measurement systems. Any one frame of reference can be written up very simply. It is very hard though to write one article that covers metric brewers, imperial brewers plus the multiple ways in which 'extract potential' of a grain can be laboratory recorded.

The only thing I will say here is that any efficiency figure is alwasy a based on volume and gravity and therefore estimated efficiencies can be compared to actual efficiencies very quickly no matter what units you work in. For example, if the BIABacus said you should expect a VIK of 38.12 l (10.07 Gal) at 1.027, then if you a metric user, you can just multiply 38.12 * 27 = 1,029 'metric' gravity points (there is no such term) or if you are US, 10.07* 27 = 272 gravity points (this is a real term).

Let's say you end up with 40 L (10.57 Gal) at 1.026, then 40 * 26 = 1,040 or, in US, 10.57 * 26 = 275.

1029 versus 1040 tells you all is good as does 272 versus 275. In fact, on a normal brew you should expect larger discrepancies between actuals and estimates.

Hope some of the above gets closer to resolving your question Richard ;).


Stirring and EIK

Lol on posts made two years ago. That's one of the few ones I have finally book-marked as I got sick of looking it up!

As for stirring and EIK, in some set-ups it may be necessary to stir and in other's not. Lots of things come into play. There are only a few ways questions like this will get answered. For example, we are trying to collect the most primitive mash information in this thread.

The best way of getting good data though will be if we can write the BIABacus into program form and be able to collect and analyse thousands of actuals in a few seconds.

My personal suspicion for now though is that people with tall narrow kettles will probably find it more necessary to stir than those with wider kettles as in the latter, there is likely to be better circulation. Really don't know though.

:peace:
PP
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Post #37 made 11 years ago
PLG formula follow-up
I can see that this formula works similar to a 'dilution gravity calculator', such as brewheads.com, so I believe it is correct. I'm not sure why part of it is using the (0.9614) and part is not, however.

I got WAY off track initially in this discussion trying to use Section V, which is not working correct, atm, as my MAXI volume, and then figuring the gravity points. :scratch: I now understand that PLG is not normally used by brewers and that I should not worry about such matters. I will just top up to the VIK mark when doing a MAXI. :argh: Arrgg, I'm so sorry PP.
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Post #38 made 11 years ago
No problems Richard ;). I saw the post you wrote earlier and then must have deleted. That is great you worked out the answer yourself :salute:.

Understanding brewing numbers should be easy on the face of it but given the current culture, if you have read too many things elsewhere it is very hard to understand them fully without a great deal of work. I started to list some of the things you have to step through but have just deleted them as there were a lot more steps than even I thought. Suffice to say that most of the problems stem from faulty terminology and software and so new brewers can hopefully avoid what we have had to go through.
Mad_Scientist wrote:I'm not sure why part of it is using the (0.9614) and part is not, however.
Not entirely sure what you mean or are refering to here but I'm thinking you mean this...

We have been talking about three volume figures... 'Volume into Kettle (VIK)', 'Water Used in Sparge' and 'Water Added During Boil.'

VIK is a "hot" figure and therefore must be reduced by 0.9614 to match the other two cold volumes.

Make sense? :peace:
PP
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Post #39 made 11 years ago
Thank you PP.

I have another burning question. It's about Section V. It seems to be using mash temperature calculations, is it?

I've measured/calibrated my keggle as best as I could, and when I put a zero in for the headspace, it seems most/more accurate when I adjust it to ambient temperature (after subtracting my keggle offset from Section X), that matches my kettle capacity.
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Post #40 made 11 years ago
PistolPatch wrote: Maxi-BIAB Post-Pull Volume

Richard, you wrote, "In terms of the two Maxi-BIAB brews I did using the BIABacus, I was trying to 'pre-calculate' the volume I would have after pulling the bag."

This is really easy as the BIABacus has done most of the work for you already. On a brew where you have either used some water in a sparge and/or added water before the boil, your volume after pulling the bag is VIK less whatever numbers you have typed beside 'Water Used in a Sparge' and 'Water Added Before the Boil' in section W.

If you want to get super precise, then you'll have to do few adjustments for thermal expansion but you shouldn't be going to these extremes.
PP, Thank you for all your help with my PLG questions. You mentioned that you didn't remember why you included it on the BIABacus. I would like to see it stay in some form, and if possible, whether it's called PLG or Post Pull Gravity (PPG) and include a Post Pull Volume (PPV). I can now figure this volume using Section V and it matches up very nicely to the calculator from brewheads.com.

In the screen shots below I am showing the corresponding volume from brewheads.com a 'dilution gravity calculator'.
Advanced PLG stuff(1).jpg
Advanced PLG stuff(3).jpg
I am also now quite certain that I went on a PICNIC (problem in chair not in computer) :lol: My volume could not have been that far off. After taking my refractometer away from my eyes, I must have had a senior moment and recorded a 15.3 brix instead of a 16.3 brix for the PLG. This is where I got off the track. :idiot:
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Post #41 made 11 years ago
Hey there Richard ;),
Mad_Scientist wrote:I have another burning question. It's about Section V. It seems to be using mash temperature calculations, is it?
Ha! This is one of those little things that can bog you down when you think too hard.

Firstly, section V does not use mash temp, ambient temp or boiling temp. It simply measures volume. You might need to think on that one for a bit. It's one of those things that will be obvious once you see it.

Secondly, if you type in 0 cms for headspace in Section V, then, the volume displayed should equal the 'Kettle Capacity' displayed in section B but...

I think you are still trying to be too accurate Richard. This was one of the things I wrote about in my last post here and then wiped. One of the traps we can all fall into is trying to get numbers to match perfectly. They won't. For example...

There is only a 2% difference in the volume of ambient water versus water at mash temp. There is no way that you or I, as homebrewers, are ever going to be able to measure our volumes within 2% unless we weigh everything and even then, that would only work for water :sad:.

More PLG Stuff

PLG means 'Pre-Lauter Gravity' but, as we saw previously, this is exactly the same gravity as you would get immediately after pulling the bag. I don't think I can write any more on this than I have already written here. What that post really says is that PLG is not a major consideration.

On relating PLG to a volume figure, it really isn't necessary and just makes things a mess. I think what you are really asking is, "If I have entered any figures in 'Water Used in a Sparge' or 'Water Added Before the Boil' in Section W, what should my volume be after I pull the bag?"

Before giving the answer, I have to emphasise again that you really shouldn't be measuring/worrying about this volume. VIF and KFL are the centre of the volume universe. Pre-boil volumes are Pluto. Remember that ;). Anyway...

Post Bag Pull Volume = VIK x 0.98043 - ('Water Used in a Sparge' + 'Water Added Before the Boil') x 1.019794.

Brewheads

The BIABacus can fulfill the same function you are using at Brewheads plus a bit more info. Explore sections N, O and P a little more and see if you can find anything. What I am saying is that you can use some fields for more purposes than their name implies ;).

Interesting Stuff

The main aim of the BIABacus is to make things as simple as we can. There are still three 'design and terminology' things worrying me. One of these is PLG. It is confusing but I would have missed it if it weren't for your questions Richard so :peace:.

PP
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Post #42 made 11 years ago
PP, Well, I hope I'm not known as 'Mr. PLG' from now on. :lol: , and I hope I didn't cause you to drink, over this matter. :pray:

As a keggle user, my kettle capacity is 55.0 L / 14.52 G. When I type in 0 cms for headspace in Section V, it is 59.29 L and after I subtract my 3.8 L offset adjustment from Section X, it's off by .49 L Now, I reported the bug about this "Section V not working for keggles." and you started this thread; http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 125#p30838

Is there anyway I can use Section V to get a 'true' volume, for my 'actuals', before BIABacus 1.4 is released?
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Post #43 made 11 years ago
PistolPatch wrote:BIABacus will handle 3 Vessel Brewings and Extract Brews.

...

3V brewers just need to change Volume Loss from Lauter to 1 l/kg.
I don't claim to be a 3V brewer, but I don't understand this statement. Why would the Volume Loss from Lauter be higher for 3V? Is this due to bag squeezing for BIAB?

That also bring me back to an earlier comment I made. Although it is great that the user can adjust this loss, I do not like that the BIABacus does not tell the user what the current value is. I feel the same way about most of the adjustment factors in Section X. EIK is shown in Section P, but the other values are not shown. Could they be displayed on a different tab to not clutter up the main tab?

Small point for the next release: In the line:
Adjust Volume Loss from Lauter to ___ l/kg = ___ gal/#
I would change "#" to "lb". It looks like there is room for the "lb" and the units would read the way those of us using pounds are used to seeing it (gal/lb instead of gal/#).
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 14 Jun 2013, 20:41, edited 2 times in total.

Post #44 made 11 years ago
Just quickly Dave as I'm trying to wind my brain down rather than up :).

On the first point as to why 3V has a higher liquor to grain absorption rate than BIAB, there'll be some more info here somewhere but basically, in BIAB, you have a perfect manifold. The wort only has to travel a short distance to escape the bag. Also, there is naturally some pressure put on the grain bed either deliberately by squeezing or just by the act of hanging. In 3V though you would probably find quite some variance between the rigs.

As for the BIABacus 'adjustment factors', these would be put into the BIABacus help which someone :roll: needs to write. The scale and structure of what needs to be written is pretty daunting to be honest and little time has been available so far this year. C'est la vie!

Thanks for the #/lb thing I will write a note and change it in PR 1.4.

;)
PP
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Post #45 made 11 years ago
Mad_Scientist wrote:PP, Well, I hope I'm not known as 'Mr. PLG' from now on. :lol: , and I hope I didn't cause you to drink, over this matter. :pray:

As a keggle user, my kettle capacity is 55.0 L / 14.52 G. When I type in 0 cms for headspace in Section V, it is 59.29 L and after I subtract my 3.8 L offset adjustment from Section X, it's off by .49 L Now, I reported the bug about this "Section V not working for keggles." and you started this thread; viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2125#p30838

Is there anyway I can use Section V to get a 'true' volume, for my 'actuals', before BIABacus 1.4 is released?
Sorry Richard, I answered Dave's question above before yours. I had aimed to answer your question last as it was going to be most enjoyable but I have run out of steam sorry.

All that I can offer you is that I did spend quite some time on your post today. The answer was a lot more complicated than I thought it would be like pretty much everything in the BIABcus :roll:. Once I got your stuff sorted (I think) I went on a roll :P. See here.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jun 2013, 21:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #46 made 11 years ago
Hey PP. I concur, you indeed went on a roll, and 'with butter on it'. :lol:

I started out on this advanced thread thinking there was a bug, I made all kinds of twists and turns, rambled on and on, and I found one, me!!!

Thank you for all you do. You rock, Pat.
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Post #47 made 11 years ago
Dave, I edited some of the drivel out of my post above :) and have tried to give an answer there on the 3V thing. Hopefully that is a little clearer now.

Richard, getting section U and V working properly for the non-keggle vessels took a lot longer than I thought. One thing to realise (that isn't really that important) is that low liquid levels cannot be measured accurately in keggle shapes. Basically anything below the line w in the pics here will not be accurate due to the tapering shape. In reality, this will not be a problem as when the liquid is that low, you are basically just measuring Kettle to Fermentor Loss which can be done by pouring it into a jug if it below line w. Because of this, to be sure, I have put warnings into the BIABacus that tell you if your reading will be inaccurate.

As for you being a bug, I don't think so! Some of the things you have been looking at can be pretty tricky/confusing and only become clear in hindsight. It would be much easier too if we had the proper help written. How many beers is that going to take?????

:o,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 15 Jun 2013, 17:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #48 made 11 years ago
PistolPatch wrote: Richard, getting section U and V working properly for the non-keggle vessels took a lot longer than I thought.
I'm following up on my initial post #14, about my volume question.

For keggle vessels using a sight glass, this is the work-around to figure your volume (in this example).
Remove my 'Kettle Shape Volume Adjustment' in Section X. This is 3.8 L / 1.0 G
Enter the headspace into Section V which was 10.5 cm, this equalled 38.28 L / 10.113 G
Add 10.113 G plus 1.0 G.

I calibrated my keggle a couple of years ago taking measurements off my sight glass with every gallon of water I poured in. My mark on the sight glass of 10.5 cm (from this past brew) equalled ~11.125 G.

I'm just confirming this math formula, that's all.
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 18 Jun 2013, 05:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #49 made 11 years ago
Does the Biabacus use the QTY of hops used in a recipe when calculating an efficiency figure?
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Post #50 made 11 years ago
Mad_Scientist wrote:I'm following up on my initial post #14, about my volume question...
Richard, I liked the 'just confirming' bit above. I had a few reads and am not quite sure of the maths. As far as I am concerned, the forumlas you are referring to are now fixed. I am happy though if you are ;)
mally wrote:Does the Biabacus use the QTY of hops used in a recipe when calculating an efficiency figure?
mally, pretty sure I have written a small book here tonight in just two posts but hopefully your question will be easier to answer than those ones!!!

...

Well, it is and it isn't :roll:. In fact, I think mally, that you would have to get the award for posing so many problems in a single sentence :lol:.

I think what you are probably asking though is, "Does the BIABacus account for an increased 'Kettle to Fermentor Loss (KFL)' in a brew such as an IPA compared to a brew such as a lager that has far less hops?"

.....

I could write pages on this but I am done for today and probably for the next few days :). For now, all I can do is give you a very simple and accurate answer...

Any recipe, regardless of the hops used, will give you the same, 'kettle efficiency'. 'Kettle Efficiency,' is a term I wrote a few hours on yesterday so it won't be hard to search for and find.

In contrast, a 'fermentor efficiency', only differs from the above by how much 'Kettle to Fermentor Loss (KFL) you experience. This is very much dependent on many more things than your weight of hops.

Gotta go sorry. Your question has real merit and I have not addressed it properly. At the end of the day though it is something that is something we are considering but it is not of the highest priority. There are several educational worries if we include a trub estimate.

I'm gone,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Jun 2013, 21:32, edited 2 times in total.
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