Recipe Design

Maybe I am missing it somewhere, or maybe haven't read enough here yet (did read the first post in this thread several times, and most of the others too) but I am trying to figure out how to actually design a recipe with the BIABacus. I want to brew a Saison, I have a grain list and %s I wish to use, would like an OG around 1.063 and the type of hops and IBUs I want to shoot for, but I have yet to find much info here on how to take all that and get a relible BIABacus file that will get me close to this on brew day. I have done 3 BIABs now with BIABacus, but all were existing recipes that I scaled to my equipment and tweaked slightly with substitutions etc., and all were pretty close to dead on for all the numbers.

I have used an online calculator to get the SGP of my grain amounts and types (since I dont like math that much and the formulas I have found for these are kinda long to do myself, and I question their accuracy) and the IBUs of my hop amounts with aa's and times added, and put those into the Biabacus, but I am guessing maybe this isn't the most accurate way for recipe design? At least for BIAB? Anyway, if someone can point me to a post that explains this better, or shine some light on this I would greatly appreciate it, Thanks!

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Canada
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Is that you again gouulaigan?

The BIABacus help is being writtten up now and you won't really find anything much on Recipe Design on the forum on it atm. Recipe Design has very little to do with numbers/software but with the BIABacus, that side of things is very easy...

1. Type in the OG you want in Section B [EDIT: Correction - Section C]. Type in the percentages of each grain you want. In Section C [EDIT: Correction - Section D, on the second line, type in the IBU's you want and then type in the amount of hops, their AA%, times and addition method. That's it.

You can also check to make sure your colour is right but...

The major part of recipe design should not be done in software. When people do, they say, "Oh no my colour (and colour formulas we have in software are not that great) is wrong! I'll throw in some crytal or dark malt to fix it. Great! Now it matches the style!!!" Or they look at the IBU estimate (especially in other software where you add the hops first and then see what IBU you get and which formula you are using and whether it was even written correctly) and focus on that instead of thinking about what each hop contribution will bring o the table.

THe BIABacus, with it's set-up of typing in gravity and IBU goals before ingredients is ideal for the numbers part of recipe design. Its formulas are also correct whereas a lot of other software has its formulas wrong. The only thing the BIABacus won't do that a lot of other software will, is tell you if you ar within style guidelines which is really just a gimmmick and it's a misleading gimmmick as it is just based on gravity, IBU and colour which you should know before you start designing a recipe not after.

Make sense so far?

You also mention about designing recipes for BIAB. BIAB is all-grain. There is nothing different to desigining a recipe in BIAB than traditional three-vessel brewing.

Professional Recipe Design

In the BIABAcus help, three of the forums are, "Recipe Scaling," "Recipe Design" and "Beer Cloning". Professional Recipe Design does not involve much time sitting in front of software (maybe 5 minutes at most.) The more knowledge and experience you have of ingredients (and the beer style), the better recipe designer you will be.

Software will not tell you the difference between Briess US 2 row malt and Rahr US 2 row malt and that both can benefit from a protein rest. (Well it might but it certainly won't tell you which is best for the recipe you are working on.) Software won't pop up and say, you'r making a lager. Did you know you can use pilsner malt for this style? It won't tell you that one variety of hops can bring out different flavours/aromas/bitterness depending on the way it is applied to the brew.

Study, tasting, experimentation and experience are the main tools of recipe design, not software. All the software will (should) do, is adjust your grain weights up and down to match your gravity and adjust your hop bill (which you have carefully worked out the ratios of) to match your IBUs.

So recipe design (and then actually brewing the recipe) for amateurs can be a lot of fun and an excellent learning experience especially if they use the approach above. In other words, go for it but be aware that your experience and knowledge are the major factors.


PP

P.S. By SGP, I think you mean something like specific grain potential which actually means extract potential. Unless you have an all-grain recipe with heaps dark malts (and I mean heaps) or extracts or sugars, you don't even worry about putting these into Section Y of the BIABacus. Firstly, the average the BIABacus uses works extremely well. Secondly, unless you have the specs of the malt batch you are actually buying, the specs you get from the internet can be vastly different from what your batch is.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

I know I know, I'm such a pest hah. I don't see anywhere in section B to put in the OG I would like? Do you mean the top of section C maybe? Or maybe I'm not using the latest and greatest? 1.3k?

Nevermind I just tried a blank test biabacus side by side with the one I designed with the help of the online calc(and then entered into BIABacus). I filled in A an B as normal, put the OG I required in first part of C, put in my 5 grains as percentages, and compared to the online calc version, the weights are only off a couple grams each, and I, of course, trust your formulas more I think the thing I was missing is putting in the percentages, I knew there was an extract potential formula lurking behind the scenes somewhere here I just didn't know how to make use of it. Thanks for that, I get it now.

ANd with the hops bill, I see now too, I basically set the IBUs that I am looking for, and when I put in the AAs, times and amounts I was shooting for, it tweaks the amounts to the desired IBUs, not sure why I didn't see this before. I think I just really wasn't sure where the line was between the info I need to input versus the info the BIABacus can give back, if that makes any sense. It works well though, I did already have amounts and times in mind, and its nice to see the BIABacus estimates are again only a gram or 2 different then my original inputs(guesses).

As far as colour, I am with you there, I don't care much about colour, to quote BB (i think)I can't taste colour.

For me I am looking at recipe design as I would cooking, not trying to fit into guidelines, just want to design a beer with grains and hops that I think will work best for a 'flavour style' based on my own observation( beer drinkin ). I am not looking for a program to do this part for me, just the complicated formula part, which you have now enlightened me on.

To address your 'PS', by SPG I meant specific gravity points from each grain addition, but now that I got the % thing figured out it takes care of all that. I understand that extract potential is not the same for all grains but that using an average gets you very close since the bill is usually made up of majority base malts with very similar extract potential. And sort of proved this since the online calculator I used to do the first biabacus file actually used specific extract potentials for each malt, and even as specific as the company the malt was from, and the second biabacus I did after your explanation only had a gram or two of discrepancies.

Thanks for taking the time to respond so quickly, I know your busy and it amazes me the time you put into answering questions from random noobs like myself. And if you end up reading this response, sorry to take up more of your time with my ramblings

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Canada
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

goul, many thanks for your reply above. It's always great to hear that something written has helped. Sorry about my Section B and C errors. I just put an edit in the post so no one else gets confused.

I have nothing more to say because what you have written above ensures me that you have understood everything perfectly. Couldn't be happier.

As for you or anyone else asking and me or anyone else answering questions, all I can say personally is that I like finding solutions to very complex situations. How to provide quality tools and info in the home brewing world is probably the hardest thing I have ever come across intellectually, believe it or not. It's an area where even the most simple areas have been unnecessarilly complicated by others. The questions asked and the time spent in answering them, expensive though it may be, are what really make a difference. You'd be surprised at how many answers may be required for exactly the same question. Occassionally you get a win and come up with something that manages to answer many different questions really well.

That last para probably makes no sense to anyone else . What I'm trying to say is that enthusiastic brewers willing to ask questions, stop and absorb an answer and then ask more questions or give feedback are the best!

Good on you,
PP

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0