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Element options for 50L kettle

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by adamkse
I am going to build a kettle for my first grain attempt and was thinking 50L sounded about the right size/I can get one for a reasonable price. I have read a number of different opinions on 1 large element, 2 smaller elements etc but I don't know what the best option for me is.

I live in the UK, voltage is 230V and the sockets are 13A. My kitchen sockets breaker is 32A so can run 2 off 2.4kw heaters without any problems. The other option is I try to get access to the cooker socket which will let me draw more current for a bigger element.

If I went down the route of 2 elements (easier for me), do I leave element 1 on full whack and control with element 2? What should I do with them during mashing before the boil, do you need both for that?

If you guys can share with me what you do and what works/doesn't work that would be most appreciated :)

Thanks.

Post #2 made 10 years ago
by joshua
AdamKse,

You can go with 2x2.4Kw elements.

Use one with a PID controller to mash with, then set its temperature to Mash-Out, then 101C, and turn the 2nd element on, with a switch, to go full Boil.

There are a few topics here that show how to Do this, check...http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2605

For some Information, and check.....http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php?f=24 for The Electric BIAB Topic.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #3 made 10 years ago
by mally
AdamKse - I have an 80L thermopot that I fitted 2 x 2.4Kw elements to. I switch them both on full when raising temps. Then when at the boil stage I find 1 element isn't enough for a good rolling boil, but two is too much and wort tries to jump out the kettle, so I had the same dilemma that I think you are facing/thinking ahead of.

I used an SCR in a project box that allows you to dial in the power to the element from 0-100 in single steps.
I was thinking of doing a post about this build in case it came in useful to anybody else, but it basically consists of;

1. Waterproof Electronic Junction Project Box (200x120x75mm) - Ebay (£3.78)
Waterproof Electronic Junction Project Box (200x120x75mm).jpg
2. AC 220V 10000W 80A SCR Digital Voltage Regulator - Ebay (£12.15)
AC 220V 10000W 80A SCR Digital Voltage Regulator.jpg
3. Compression Cable Glands Waterproof IP68 - (Ebay £0.99 for 5 off).
Compression Cable Glands Waterproof IP68.jpg
You will also need to hack a 10A IEC cable (do not use a PC power cable as these are not rated high enough) ensure you get a "hot condition" cable!

You also need to hack the project box to make all the components fit, plus I added ventilation holes (underneath) to help with heat dissipation, but this was easy enough with a Dremel. If you are thinking of going this route just say if you need to know anything else.
~ADVISORY~
Suffice to say this is just what I did and it worked for me. If you are not competent at electrics/electronics get a professional to do it, as I wouldn't like to be held responsible for any potential issues. :argh:
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Last edited by mally on 22 Jun 2015, 15:31, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #4 made 10 years ago
by adamkse
Thanks for the replys guys.

I was thinking basic PID control with a solid state relay or SCR. With 2 elements would I need two sets of gains for the controller, one for mashing and one for boiling or does it work fine in both scenarios?

Adam

Post #5 made 10 years ago
by joshua
AdamKse, A 50L system will not Boil with only 1 Element.

So, you could wire 1 element with an on/off switch to heat to boil only , and use a PID controller with the 2nd Element to Mash, and switch in/out at 212F/100C or so to control the Boil, if Necessary.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Bellybuster
Your kitchen cct will run a 5500 watt element just fine. Use a PID with manual setting for the boil. Easy Peasey

Can't understand why you would want the hassle of two elements when one can do it all

Post #8 made 10 years ago
by bionut
Where do you buy Ultra Low Watt Density heating elements in Europe? I didn't found a seller yet. From USA is to expensive to order in my country, the shipping cost is bigger than the cost of the element.

Post #10 made 10 years ago
by bionut
Thanks, but "Sorry, this Seller doesn’t deliver to Romania". Now i realised that i don't have my location in my profile :) On ebay i found a seller that can deliver to Romania, but the element costs 40$ and the shipping another 60$ :headhit: I am looking for a better option...

Post #15 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Maybe if you live near a Boarder, the Neighboring Country may have better shipping prices. Some places have a place to ship to, and you can pick it up.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #16 made 10 years ago
by bionut
A friend gave me a 4500 W ULWD element for free :D it is the model with with the socket that can rust. Any ideea how can i make it rust resistent?
I am looking for the cheapest control panel, if you can direct me to some cheap chinese PIDs, SSRs, sensor, etc, please do so. Does any of you use those stuff?

Post #19 made 10 years ago
by mally
Bionut - I presume the socket is not in contact with wort/foodstuffs?

If not then you could maybe think about Phosphoric acid treatments.
Very dangerous stuff :o , but creates a corrosion resistant black phosphate coat.

Paint
Varnish/lacquer
or plated (Zinc) etc.
Just some random thoughts.

I bought an SCR off EBay, but I seem to remember you have problems with deliveries?
Last edited by mally on 17 Jul 2015, 15:36, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #21 made 10 years ago
by mally
hmmm...
Strange that is Bionut. Most of the ULWD elements I have seen have the element that sits in the wort made of stainless steel.

It is ultimately your choice, but I would be a bit wary of allowing a reactive metal sit in the wort during a boil. Do you know what material it is?
I guess it gets used by others as you mentioned:
bionut wrote: it is the model with with the socket that can rust
Which to me indicates others have used it?

If an element is not stainless steel, I have only seen nickel plated ones, but even these are linked to an increased risk of nickel leaching into the water :scratch:
Last edited by mally on 20 Jul 2015, 15:11, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #22 made 10 years ago
by bionut
My friend that gave it to me used it before he got the SS one. Theelectricbrewery recommend it before the camco stainless steel one was available. Many brewers use it, some use a magnesium anode to protect the element base from rusting.
I will use it just in wort, for the water i will use something else, as in water it rust very quickly.
I am not afraid for leaching, because it will form a protective oxide layer.
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