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On hops and aroma and taste and stuff

Post #1 made 13 years ago
by widdley
Apologies for another long diatribe - better get used to it :lol:

Whacked out another brew using this recipe and decided to no chill it... This time, just to be zany I followed the instructions and things went off without a hitch, so thumbs up to the guide scribes :D

Because of the no chill, I decided to throw the 20min hop additions in about a minute before shutting off the heat, and leave the aroma additions for later.

So the question I was going to ask was "should I add the aroma hops to the secondary, dry hop style, or make a french pressed hop tea? Well actually the underlying question is really which one will give me a better result as I have read that both 'work' in theory.

I then assumed I'd get a few responses that said 'it depends' and 'its different' etc. Hence to resolve the debate that you all are now having, I have decided to split the batch in two at the end of the primary and then dry hop one and french press the other :ugeek:

At least thats the plan, unless anyone wants to tell me I'm a crackpot (which is probably true regardless) :lol:

The rest is just rambling as I've decided to adopt this site as an online diary, until such time as someone takes the keyboard off me :roll:

So, I'm also trying to get a better handle on flavour contributions hence I did a few taste tests, here's a summary:
  • 5 mins into the mash: tastes like uncooked porridge, smells very grainy
  • end of mash: tastes like sweet porridge, smells grainy and a bit doughy
  • end of boil: initial flavour is sweet and malty with a medium bitter finish. also has a nice citrusy aroma coming off the late addition hops.
  • adding to fermenter (following no chill in cube): nice clear wort, flavour similar to end of boil but a more bitter finish
  • trub at bottom of cube: :? Thick mouth feel similar to the texture of curdled milk but with a very pleasant initial flavour (still quite sweet and malty) although with a quite harsh bitter finish (a lot more so that the clear wort).
I'm assuming the trub is more bitter because that's where all the hop residue is, and there would have been some additional extraction from the late addition hops. Obvously I didn't intentionally shake everything up, hence the amarulentus-cline (apologies to anyone that actually speaks Latin).

While the clear wort is a little too bitter, I expect (from past experience) it will mellow through the fermentation and conditioning process (which I'll do properly this time)
Last edited by widdley on 24 Aug 2010, 15:49, edited 5 times in total.

Post #2 made 13 years ago
by Ralph
Widdley, I wouldn't bother splitting it, that's just too much faffing about. Flip a coin and hop the whole batch on the outcome (write your decision down first!), its not as if this is your one and only attempt to brew the beer, is it? Try a few batches dry hopped and a few french pressed, then decide then which you prefer.

Yes, trub is most certainly offensive, don't use it to evaluate your beer, while there are also some profound changes which take place even after bottling/ kegging (you may appreciate that now by the sounds?).

As an aside, it amazes me that folks often rave about hydrometer samples being simply divine, when in all likelihood the changes which take place afterwards will make their initial flavour perceptions pretty irrelevant- no one seems to report this after the fact... I'm guilty of it though, but I have also noted the odd quite mediocre hydrometer sample which turns out to be a truly fantastic beer. The take- home message for me is that beer assessments before carbonation and appropriate conditioning are usually not worth squat!
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
by iijakii
I'd love to see a comparison on dry-hopping and hop-tea additions.

Off the top of my head, I'd imagine the tea would impact the flavor of the beer far greater than dry-hopping, which is mostly for aroma.

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by widdley
Ralph wrote: I wouldn't bother splitting it... Flip a coin and hop the whole batch on the outcome...
Fair point... Ok I've flipped a coin and it appears my destiny (this time round) is to French press, should be ready to drop to the secondary by the weekend.
Ralph wrote: ...folks often rave about hydrometer samples being simply divine, when in all likelihood the changes which take place afterwards will make their initial flavour perceptions pretty irrelevant- no one seems to report this after the fact...
I totally agree... even in my mediocre experience I have observed this. I am tasting along the way because I am as interested in the journey that the beer is taking as in the final outcome ;)

Which reminds me...
Day 2 in the fermenter: obviously very yeasty, and there is already a discernable difference due to a lower sweetness, but the bitter finish hasn't (yet) changed
Last edited by widdley on 25 Aug 2010, 08:31, edited 5 times in total.

Post #5 made 13 years ago
by NME
Ralph wrote:As an aside, it amazes me that folks often rave about hydrometer samples being simply divine, when in all likelihood the changes which take place afterwards will make their initial flavour perceptions pretty irrelevant- no one seems to report this after the fact... I'm guilty of it though, but I have also noted the odd quite mediocre hydrometer sample which turns out to be a truly fantastic beer. The take- home message for me is that beer assessments before carbonation and appropriate conditioning are usually not worth squat!
God I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've learnt never to judge a brew based on hydro samples. Sure, it's cool to know where it's at and helps make sure you're infection free, but I've given up passing judgement until it's ready to drink. I've been finding that having my keg on gas for 2 weeks makes a huge difference. The bitterness mellows out, the beer clears and it just gets awesome.

Anyway, back OT. I think you'll probably find the difference between the 2 is a kind of "grassiness" dry hopping can give off. Someone used another word to describe it, but I can't think of it. I've been making hop tea for dry hopping ever since I discovered it. It rules :P
Last edited by NME on 25 Aug 2010, 09:38, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
by outbreak
NME wrote:
God I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've learnt never to judge a brew based on hydro samples. Sure, it's cool to know where it's at and helps make sure you're infection free, but I've given up passing judgement until it's ready to drink. I've been finding that having my keg on gas for 2 weeks makes a huge difference. The bitterness mellows out, the beer clears and it just gets awesome.

Anyway, back OT. I think you'll probably find the difference between the 2 is a kind of "grassiness" dry hopping can give off. Someone used another word to describe it, but I can't think of it. I've been making hop tea for dry hopping ever since I discovered it. It rules :P
With the issues im having with pellets refusing to drop out of my brew during CC atm this hop tea idea sounds very tempting!
Last edited by outbreak on 25 Aug 2010, 14:42, edited 5 times in total.

Post #7 made 13 years ago
by Beachbum
You can get a good "essentials" brand coffee plunger / french press from Woolworths (Australia) for about $12 and just keep it in the brewery as a bit of kit. I don't drink coffee so mine is for hopping only.

The trouble with tasting wort and hydrometer samples is that they just taste so bloody wonderful. I have made Corona Cerveza style beers for the family that are only hopped to 15 IBU with a few pathetically lonely Chinook or Galena pellets and the wort has tasted like a hop farm holding its annual party in my mouth.

Four weeks later in the keg or bottle, you can hardly taste a hop in it. I'm almost tempted to give up fermenting, just make wort, fizz it with a sparkler and then spike it with cheap vodka and drink that :twisted:

Don't tell the government, they'll just tax me :?
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