I have a quick question that is covered in detail on the forum, but I just wanted to simplified the discussion specific to my brewing.
I have brewed 3 or 4 BIAB batches. My efficiency at the conclusion of the mash is about 60%. Outside of the extra grain I have to purchase, which is about a few US dollars per brew, does my low efficiency matter?
Thanks!
Post #2 made 12 years ago
jrt132 - In order to offer a more simplified, specific answer to your question we would still need to know a little more.
Have a quick read of this here.
I presume you are referring to "kettle efficiency" though?
What was the grain bill(s)? what was the gravity? These will all have an effect.
Have a quick read of this here.
I presume you are referring to "kettle efficiency" though?
What was the grain bill(s)? what was the gravity? These will all have an effect.
Last edited by mally on 23 Jan 2014, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
Hi, Wally.
Thanks for the feedback. The beer was a 1.070 beer with 12 pounds of base grain and 4 pounds of specialty malts.
The efficiency I am discussing is the extraction from the grains during the mash. When I measured my pre-boil gravity I was to low (1.040 verse 1.056).
I upped my base grain of my last brew by 10% and was able to hit my pre-boil gravity.
Not very concerned about improving my efficiency as much as seeing what the effects of having 60% efficiency is on the beer. Grain only costs me about $1 US per pounds, so the couple extra dollars isn't to bad.
Thanks,
JRT
Thanks for the feedback. The beer was a 1.070 beer with 12 pounds of base grain and 4 pounds of specialty malts.
The efficiency I am discussing is the extraction from the grains during the mash. When I measured my pre-boil gravity I was to low (1.040 verse 1.056).
I upped my base grain of my last brew by 10% and was able to hit my pre-boil gravity.
Not very concerned about improving my efficiency as much as seeing what the effects of having 60% efficiency is on the beer. Grain only costs me about $1 US per pounds, so the couple extra dollars isn't to bad.
Thanks,
JRT
Post #4 made 12 years ago
JTR, since mally posted the link above, I have written more in that thread starting here.
You said above, "Not very concerned about improving my efficiency as much as seeing what the effects of having 60% efficiency is on the beer." This is telling me that you might be skimming the answers being given and unfortunately that just won't work for you. Some stuff just can't be simplified into a paragraph. For example, if you read mally's link, you would know by now that the efficiency you are referring to is "kettle efficiency". You'd also see that the higher gravity the brew you are doing the less kettle efficiency you should expect. So, don't skim!!!
Even though you have done a higher gravity brew, your kettle efficiency is still too low. You should be worried about that as, especially in BIAB, kettle efficiency is relatively predictable. You are way out of the ball-park and you need to find out why.
In the link I have given above here, you'll also find another sub-link that will lead you to 10 Common Reasons for a Low Efficiency Reading.
Check all that out and let us know if anything strikes a chord,
PP
You said above, "Not very concerned about improving my efficiency as much as seeing what the effects of having 60% efficiency is on the beer." This is telling me that you might be skimming the answers being given and unfortunately that just won't work for you. Some stuff just can't be simplified into a paragraph. For example, if you read mally's link, you would know by now that the efficiency you are referring to is "kettle efficiency". You'd also see that the higher gravity the brew you are doing the less kettle efficiency you should expect. So, don't skim!!!
Even though you have done a higher gravity brew, your kettle efficiency is still too low. You should be worried about that as, especially in BIAB, kettle efficiency is relatively predictable. You are way out of the ball-park and you need to find out why.
In the link I have given above here, you'll also find another sub-link that will lead you to 10 Common Reasons for a Low Efficiency Reading.
Check all that out and let us know if anything strikes a chord,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 25 Jan 2014, 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 12 years ago
Hi, Pistol.
You are correct, I did just scan the post Wally provided. I tried squeezing in some computer time between dinner and bed time for the kids!
Read everything over and I do understand the different efficiencys. I am strictly concerned with Kettle Efficiency. For all my brews (3 or 4) my kettle efficiency has been about 60%. The brews have had a starting gravity of 1.055 to 1.070. I understand the reason that the efficiency may be low. It is likely the difference grain moisture or specifications (sugar content)and/or grain crush, but not positive. The other items I am pretty sure I have covered.
That leaves my original question. What is the impact to a beer with a kettle efficiency of 60% compared to 80%? Would it make beer more malty, less malty, more hoppy, less hoppy, etc? The main thing I can think of is cost, but that doesn't effect the beer. This doesn't concern me a whole lot because I have access to relatively cheap grain.
I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss.
Thanks,
Josh
You are correct, I did just scan the post Wally provided. I tried squeezing in some computer time between dinner and bed time for the kids!
Read everything over and I do understand the different efficiencys. I am strictly concerned with Kettle Efficiency. For all my brews (3 or 4) my kettle efficiency has been about 60%. The brews have had a starting gravity of 1.055 to 1.070. I understand the reason that the efficiency may be low. It is likely the difference grain moisture or specifications (sugar content)and/or grain crush, but not positive. The other items I am pretty sure I have covered.
That leaves my original question. What is the impact to a beer with a kettle efficiency of 60% compared to 80%? Would it make beer more malty, less malty, more hoppy, less hoppy, etc? The main thing I can think of is cost, but that doesn't effect the beer. This doesn't concern me a whole lot because I have access to relatively cheap grain.
I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss.
Thanks,
Josh
Post #6 made 12 years ago
That is actually a really good question (not being particularly bothered that the efficiency is low UNLESS it has a detrimental effect on flavour).
All I can offer you is what I "think" is the case - It probably doesn't have any effect (but this does depend on many factors).
The main one being why the efficiency is low. If we knew what was causing it, we could make a better call on it's effects.
All I can offer you is what I "think" is the case - It probably doesn't have any effect (but this does depend on many factors).
The main one being why the efficiency is low. If we knew what was causing it, we could make a better call on it's effects.
Last edited by mally on 28 Jan 2014, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #7 made 12 years ago
jrt132 wrote:You are correct, I did just scan the post Wally provided.
Josh. I reckon you still might be skimming because Wally is not 'Wally' he is actually 'mally' - hahaha! (He will be laughing at that too so don't worry 
).Now Wally or mally or whatever his name is
, is perfectly right in his post above. He and I think you are still missing a few very important things...1. You shouldn't get the same kettle efficiency on a 1.055 brew as you would a 1.077 brew. Here's an extract of an email I wrote to someone earlier tonight...
So Josh I don't think we are actually back to your original question quite yetI said I’d explain more on why your (imperial ?) stout had such a low gravity. Let’s say a low gravity brew has an original gravity of 1.030 and a high gravity brew has an original gravity of 1.090. In the high gravity brew, there are three times the amount of sugars that need to be 'cleaned' or 'washed' out of the grain. It’s a bit like washing clothes. Imagine washing one pair of very dirty jeans (think of red dust dirt) in a 30 litre bucket by hand using only hot water (no detergent and no spinning or rinsing – just a long soak and then hand-wringing.) You’ll probably get a lot of the dirt out of the jeans. Imagine though if you put three pairs of jeans into the same 30 litre bucket. There is no way that they will come out anywhere near as clean.
In brewing, our job is to wash as much ‘sugar’ out of the grain as possible and collect the 'dirty' run-off. High gravity brews are harder to clean so the first thing we have to do is put more ‘dirt’ (grain/sugar) in than we would expect. All software besides the BIABacus tells you that you don’t need to do this. (In other words, it leads you to believe that you will get the same efficiency on a low gravity brew as a high one.) But, you do need to do this and the way you do it is by altering your software’s kettle efficiency. This is the main reason why you fell short on your gravity. Your software kettle efficiency figure wasn’t lowered. If it was, you would have been forced to use more grain.
On really high gravity brews, sometimes just adding more dirt (grain) becomes ridiculous. It’s a bit like putting three pairs of jeans into a 30 litre bucket. They hardly fit! In these case, the only way we can get the same washing power is to add a lot more water. While doing this does help us to wash the sugar out of the grain, it then leaves us with a problem where we have the right amount of sugar going into the boil but too much water. To get rid of the water, we have to boil for longer. This gets rid of water and concentrates the sugar. This is why something like a barley wine might need a three hour boil.
One other way of increasing the gravity is of course to use extract or sugars and this is commonly done in very high gravity brews.
.Firstly, you need to understand the above. You should not be getting the same kettle efficiency on your brews if their original gravity ranges from 1.055 to 1.070. You should be getting higher for your 1.055 brew than your 1.070 brew. (Furthermore, you can't tell a thing from a few measurements from a single brew but that's a whole other story.)
And, what software are you using? How are you coming to those 60% figures?
Josh, there is an answer to your question on quality that mally and I both know but the above has to be sorted and understood first unfortunately.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Jan 2014, 19:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 12 years ago
I have never been good with names!
Understand the efficiency differences due to the OG of a beer. I am brewing a really low OG beer soon. The beer is going to be a 3.5% ABV English Mild. I should see a large increase in my kettle efficiency then. I will report back the results.
Thanks Wally, Pistol, and that other guy Mally!
Understand the efficiency differences due to the OG of a beer. I am brewing a really low OG beer soon. The beer is going to be a 3.5% ABV English Mild. I should see a large increase in my kettle efficiency then. I will report back the results.
Thanks Wally, Pistol, and that other guy Mally!
Post #9 made 12 years ago
Ha Ha, nice one jrtjrt132 wrote:Thanks Wally, Pistol, and that other guy Mally!
Last edited by mally on 29 Jan 2014, 18:39, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #10 made 12 years ago
So many important things getting missed/un-answered herePistolPatch wrote:...what software are you using? How are you coming to those 60% figures?
.
You should see an increase in kettle efficiency (assuming you can get accurate measurements on that single brew) but you still haven't let us know if anything written here so far has helped you to identify why your brews to date have fallen short of what should be expected.jrt132 wrote:I am brewing a really low OG beer soon. The beer is going to be a 3.5% ABV English Mild. I should see a large increase in my kettle efficiency then. I will report back the results.
...
Btw, the idea of kettle efficiency (other efficiencies aren't even worth going into) is for it to tell you how much grain to use to achieve your goals. It's not that great saying after a brew is done, "I got 15% more efficiency than 75%!!!" Where are you going to put that extra wort? (Hopefully, it will fit in your fermentor.)
You need to either know full well what things affect kettle efficiency (which we have tried to do here), have done a heap of brews or just let the BIABacus estimate it for you.
...
So, yep, on your next brew expect a higher kettle efficiency but also expect it to fall just as far short of what you are already falling short of.
Fair enough?
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Jan 2014, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
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