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Worms-BIAB

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by nala
I am posting pictures and dialogue of a simple system to enable step mashing and wort recirculating. I have titled it WORMS-BIAB (Wort Recirculating Mashing System).
I have made the majority of components from materials that can be bought from Bunnings.
The components that I already have are a STC1000 temperature controller,a Crown concealed element boiler,and a SP20/20 pump.

Here is the assembled system :
IMGP0743.JPG
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IMGP0751.JPG
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The system works very well and will I believe help those who want to step mash and recirculate the wort for better temperature control.
The system is not fully automatic, to achieve step temperatures I re-set the STC1000 at the end of each cycle, this is not problem.
I brewed yesterday and used the following mash schedule - copied from the Braumeister
web site.

Mash in --- 38o
55o for 5mins
63o for 30mins
72o for 20mins
78o for 10mins
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Last edited by nala on 04 Oct 2011, 11:40, edited 5 times in total.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by hashie
Great work nala, very simple and very elegant. :)

I think your idea of a temp controller on the urn is a winner, I haven't seen that done before as most people use them to control a fridge. Your idea makes hitting temps with an urn, dead easy.

I like the little pump as well, what is it rated at in litres per hour?

Cheers.
Last edited by hashie on 04 Oct 2011, 14:30, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 12 years ago
by nala
hashie wrote:Great work nala, very simple and very elegant. :)

I think your idea of a temp controller on the urn is a winner, I haven't seen that done before as most people use them to control a fridge. Your idea makes hitting temps with an urn, dead easy.

I like the little pump as well, what is it rated at in litres per hour?

Cheers.
The pump is rated at 6 litres per hour at a 3mtr head.
Bought it from solarprojects.co.uk about $47 delivered to Australia.
Last edited by nala on 04 Oct 2011, 15:43, edited 5 times in total.

Post #4 made 12 years ago
by stux
You should try measuring its flowrate at the 50cm or whatever head you have going :)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #5 made 12 years ago
by nala
stux wrote:You should try measuring its flowrate at the 50cm or whatever head you have going :)
Yes I will measure it the next time I brew.
Is there a recommended flowrate for what I am doing ?
I have 33 litres of water/wort if the flowrate is 6 litres per minute the full volume of water will be recirculated in 5.5 minutes.
Have you any advice on what the flowrate should be ?
Last edited by nala on 04 Oct 2011, 16:21, edited 5 times in total.

Post #6 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Excellent thread nala :thumbs:.

I was a bit worried when I saw the second pic with the noose. I thought you might have been thinking of giving up on the project :lol:. You've done a great job, everything looks really well done and neat. Better still, it sounds as though it actually works well which is no mean feat.

Great price on the pump. Does it have a temperature rating? Also, do you have a direct link to the pump as I can't get the above link to load up properly for some reason.

:salute:
PP
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
Really cool nala!

Two questions:
1)Looks like you're disconnecting the hose from the pump to drain the urn into, looks like, your cube. Couldn't you use the spigot from the urn instead? I'm sure you have a good reason, just curious what it is.
2)In the last picture, is the hose going through the bag or is that just an illusion?

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by nala
PistolPatch wrote:Excellent thread nala :thumbs:.

I was a bit worried when I saw the second pic with the noose. I thought you might have been thinking of giving up on the project :lol:. You've done a great job, everything looks really well done and neat. Better still, it sounds as though it actually works well which is no mean feat.

Great price on the pump. Does it have a temperature rating? Also, do you have a direct link to the pump as I can't get the above link to load up properly for some reason.

:salute:
PP
http://www.solarproject.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Link to Solarproject UK

The pump is rated @120o C
6 litres/min @3mtr Head

The noose is attached to a pulley for raising the bag.
Last edited by nala on 05 Oct 2011, 17:11, edited 5 times in total.

Post #9 made 12 years ago
by nala
BrickBrewHaus wrote:Really cool nala!

Two questions:
1)Looks like you're disconnecting the hose from the pump to drain the urn into, looks like, your cube. Couldn't you use the spigot from the urn instead? I'm sure you have a good reason, just curious what it is.
2)In the last picture, is the hose going through the bag or is that just an illusion?
I am draining into a cube yes,the reason for not using the tap spigot is that I consider it dangerous. Some brewers connect a hose to the tap and drain into the cube, the wort
is almost boiling temperature the hose becomes very plasticy and what I consider a possible accident waiting to happen. What I have done is : joined a length of copper pipe
to a piece of 1/2" NPT all thread, this screws onto the flexible hose from the ball valve
the pipe is then placed into the cube and the ball valve opened, no wort splashing or airating and most of all no hands near to the hot liquid.

The hose has been disconected from the spray ring allowing the bag to be raised, it only appears to be entering the bag, poor photo !
Last edited by nala on 05 Oct 2011, 17:26, edited 5 times in total.

Post #11 made 12 years ago
by stux
I use 1/2" ID heavy duty silicon tubing for hot wort transfers. You can buy it by the metre from good HBSs

It doesn't get plasticcy at high temps
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #12 made 12 years ago
by Lars
That looks excellent Nala, I've done 2 BIAB brews and I'd love to get something like this together. I'm just trying to get clear in my head what exactly is happening here. Forgive my stupidity but is this it??
The element is concealed so theres a false bottom of some sort seperating the element from the bag.
The wort sitting around the element is maintained at the required mash temp by the controller and element.
This temperature is maintained throughout the complete urn my recirculating the wort from around the element which then passes through the grain from top and passes back through the false bottom.
Also, is the 'cube' your fermentor? Is there any reason you dont chill in place with an immersion chiller and transfer pitch temperature wort to the fermentor?
And another question that's concerning me re recirculating systems but I dont understand, what about hot side aeration when your raining hot wort through the recirculation system. People seem to spend big money on 'March' pumps to avoid this? Is it BS?
And another qustion for you: did you have to override the internal thermostat and where is your thermostat installed thats connected to your temp controller?

Very impressive system!

Thanks

L

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by nala
Lars wrote:That looks excellent Nala, I've done 2 BIAB brews and I'd love to get something like this together. I'm just trying to get clear in my head what exactly is happening here. Forgive my stupidity but is this it??
The element is concealed so theres a false bottom of some sort seperating the element from the bag.
The wort sitting around the element is maintained at the required mash temp by the controller and element.
This temperature is maintained throughout the complete urn my recirculating the wort from around the element which then passes through the grain from top and passes back through the false bottom.
Also, is the 'cube' your fermentor? Is there any reason you dont chill in place with an immersion chiller and transfer pitch temperature wort to the fermentor?
And another question that's concerning me re recirculating systems but I dont understand, what about hot side aeration when your raining hot wort through the recirculation system. People seem to spend big money on 'March' pumps to avoid this? Is it BS?
And another qustion for you: did you have to override the internal thermostat and where is your thermostat installed thats connected to your temp controller?

Very impressive system!

Thanks

L
You are quite correct in your initial assumptions,the false bottom to keep the bag off the element is a cake trivet - just a round chrome plated wire thingy - the reason I dont chill the wort is that here in Western Australia water is a scarce commodity and I think it immoral to use water to chill wort when I can no-chill into a cube, allow the wort to cool in it's own time and then when I am ready I can transfer to a fermenter. I use an extention tube to transfer my hot wort from the HLT to the cube and get not splashing or hotside airation problems. The pump that I use costs a fraction of the cost of a March pump, March pumps are excellent, but for my application the cheap Solar Project SP2020 is great and very cheap.The temperature controller over-rides the internal thermostat just the same as when I use it to control my fermenter fridge, I use an STC1000 controller again very cheap and perfect fot the application I am using.
Last edited by nala on 23 Oct 2011, 19:33, edited 5 times in total.

Post #15 made 12 years ago
by Lars
Hi Nala,(or anyone who can answer this!)
a few mroe questions:
1. does this system scorch the wort because the element is running during mashing?
2. do you continuously recirculate during mash?
3. Do you use the probe that ships with the STC1000? I've been looking at them on ebay and the probe looks kind of like its rubber??

Thanks

L

Post #16 made 12 years ago
by shibolet
Nala,
another question please:
when you pump out of the bottom of the urn, do you not get the grain compacted at the bottom or by the outlet?
also, i would think that rather than "raining" the wort back onto the top of the mash, it would be better to push it back into the middle of the mash where it would move the grain around even more.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #17 made 12 years ago
by nala
Lars wrote:Hi Nala,(or anyone who can answer this!)
a few mroe questions:
1. does this system scorch the wort because the element is running during mashing?
2. do you continuously recirculate during mash?
3. Do you use the probe that ships with the STC1000? I've been looking at them on ebay and the probe looks kind of like its rubber??

Thanks

L
I don't think that the wort gets scorched during the mashing any more than it would during the boiling process.
The wort is continuously recirculated during the mash, the theory is that with continuous recirculation the wort will extract the fermentables from the grain more efficiently.
The STC1000 probe is as it comes,it does look like rubber, at the temperature I am working with it does not appear to be a problem. I am considering a thermowell but I
am unsure where to install it to give me an accurate mash temperature.
Last edited by nala on 17 Nov 2011, 09:33, edited 5 times in total.

Post #18 made 12 years ago
by nala
shibolet wrote:Nala,
another question please:
when you pump out of the bottom of the urn, do you not get the grain compacted at the bottom or by the outlet?
also, i would think that rather than "raining" the wort back onto the top of the mash, it would be better to push it back into the middle of the mash where it would move the grain around even more.
I have a trivet which is higher than the outlet, this serves two purposes,one that the bag is kept higher than the element and avoids burning potenetial of the bag.
The original concept was to do what you are thinking, I made the recirculating ring to sit in the bottom of the bag and recirculate from there, all this did was to create channels in the grain bed and did not allow the recirculating wort to come into contact with all the grains.
With any system you are never sure how things work in practice, I have merely tried to do what a conventional mash tun would do including the sparge.
Last edited by nala on 17 Nov 2011, 09:43, edited 5 times in total.

Post #20 made 12 years ago
by Aces high
Lars wrote:Hi Nala, where's the best place to locate the thermocouple with this setup? I'd imagine that above the element but I wonder if the recirculated liquid would be down a degree or so???

Thanks

L
I've also been thinking about this as I am looking at designing a similar system, although my unit is gas powered so i was intending to go through an external herms unit and then back into the pot. I was thinking that a stainless T on the outlet of the pot with a thermocouple in one post would be best.

In Nala's situation the wort would be drawn over the hottest part of the pot then into the takeoff and the temp measured there. I can't imagine the work losing too much heat on its travel back up to the top of the pot.
Last edited by Aces high on 27 Feb 2012, 10:48, edited 5 times in total.

Worms-BIAB

Post #21 made 12 years ago
by Lars
Thanks AH , I have the boiler and I'm considering a variation on Nalas setup. I'm not sure what you mean by 'the takeoff' but installing a T on the outlet sounds good. Instead of raining back in on top through a manifold I'm considering having a stirrer going and just piping the wort in over the paddle

L

Post #22 made 12 years ago
by Aces high
Lars wrote:Thanks AH , I have the boiler and I'm considering a variation on Nalas setup. I'm not sure what you mean by 'the takeoff' but installing a T on the outlet sounds good. Instead of raining back in on top through a manifold I'm considering having a stirrer going and just piping the wort in over the paddle

L
By takeoff I mean the outlet.
Last edited by Aces high on 28 Feb 2012, 14:33, edited 5 times in total.

Post #23 made 12 years ago
by Madness
Just to clarify, what you're saying is that the temp probe would be near the valve or is it just droped into the top of the pot?

I love the idea of using a temp controller to keep the temp stable but not sure on how the probe would work.
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