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First BIAB: Citrus IPA with pics

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
So, today marks my first BIAB batch. Since I like reading other brew stories, here's mine.

Here's my thread asking for recipe feedback from earlier this week. After investing in a 25.7L pot this week and building my dual immersion chiller yesterday, I just had to brew today. The brew was a Citrus IPA featuring Maris Otter, Pale Ale, Caramünich I and Wheat Malt. Hops were Cascade@60 and Cascade/Citra/Northern Brewer 90/Amarillo @ 5.

Building the immersion chiller
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Final result in pictures below. Having a quick well deserved homebrew (Cascade dry-hopped Cooper's APA).
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Mixing the grains according to BIABacus :)
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Getting to 66.9° strike temperature
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Mashing in. All Grain is so much more fun than extract. I loved the whole process.
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Mashing
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My temperature was all over the place. BIABacus predicted 0.9° temperature loss, I lost 2.1. I then turned on the heat again but my temperature probe must have been stuck somewhere as it didn't really budge until suddenly it was 71°. I left off the lid and stirred every few minutes but it took over 30min to get back down to 66-65. Then I realised I had no idea where my iodine was and I couldn't find it anywhere so I mashed out after 60mins.
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I'm assuming not all sugars were converted as my pre-boil gravity was only 1.038 instead of BIABacus' predicted 1.043.
Using two burners on the induction stove got me a rolling boil pretty quickly:
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Using my new hop spider I built today:
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Immersion chiller in action:
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Brought my wort from 92° to 20° in under 10mins:
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OG after boil turned out to be 1.040, which I was not satisfied with. I used 400g of pale ale DME according to this calculator to bump my OG up to 1.050.
Also: my new auto siphon was missing a piece so I had to pour the wort into my carboy through a funnel.
Turned out darker than I imagined. Also: a good 2L more than BIABacus' predicted VIF. Pitched Wyeast 1056.
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Time for cleanup :(
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All done
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Set up in my cellar at 18°
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So, all in all a fun brew day that did not quite go as expected. I assume my .005 pre-boil gravity difference was because of my wild mash temperatures and possibly too short mash. However, I ended up with 2L more wort than predicted, which was probably the reason for the .01 difference in pre-pitch OG. Unfortunately, my pot doesn't have litre markings so I don't know what the pre-boil volume was.

Now I'm not sure what to correct for my next BIABacus run. Kettle efficiency? Boil-off rate? Any ideas here? Both?
Updated BIABacus attached.

Update: airlock is happily bubbling a good 12h later.
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Last edited by chlehb on 01 Feb 2016, 04:40, edited 3 times in total.
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

First BIAB: Citrus IPA with pics

Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
Congratulations on your first brew! It's always a special day when you do your first all grain beer and it sounds like everything went fairly smoothly!

I wouldn't bother changing any settings in the biabacus at this point, it will take a few more brews to work out if there is any serious discrepancy.

A 90 minute mash will make a difference to your conversion so that is well worth the extra time.

It is hard to say what happened to your targets only knowing the gravity and not the volume. You don't need markings to measure volume, you can just use a ruler and work out how many liters per centimeter. It's the easiest way to do volumes on the go if you don't have a sight glass.

Given you got 2L more than you expected into the fermenter it could be that you didn't get the anticipated boil off or that you left less turn in the kettle than calculated.

There's no drama adding DME to beer to hit targets, with that amount it will hardly make any difference to the final beer in terms of flavour.

Enjoy this one mate, no doubt it will be the best beer you have ever made!

Post #3 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
Contrarian wrote:I wouldn't bother changing any settings in the biabacus at this point, it will take a few more brews to work out if there is any serious discrepancy.
I probably won't change the efficiency but I'll adjust the strike temp. and maybe the boil-off rate.
Contrarian wrote:A 90 minute mash will make a difference to your conversion so that is well worth the extra time.
Yeah that would have been the better course of action in lieu of the missing iodine. Of course I found the vial after the brew day was over. It was at the bottom of the grain box.
Contrarian wrote:It is hard to say what happened to your targets only knowing the gravity and not the volume. You don't need markings to measure volume, you can just use a ruler and work out how many liters per centimeter. It's the easiest way to do volumes on the go if you don't have a sight glass.
Yep, that's what I was thinking. I'll try to find some kind of plastic rod and make my own litre markings on it so I can just stick it in the kettle.
Contrarian wrote:Enjoy this one mate, no doubt it will be the best beer you have ever made!
Thanks! I have high hopes for this one :)
Last edited by chlehb on 01 Feb 2016, 16:01, edited 1 time in total.
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

First BIAB: Citrus IPA with pics

Post #4 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
Strike temp can be tricky as it depends so much on what ambient temperature is and the temperature of your grain and you need to be able to measure that accurately to get a good calculation. The other thing is that a difference in mash temp of 2 degrees with make a fairly small difference to the beer.

Over time you will get a sense of what temperature drop you get and what temp to mash in at, probably even without using a calculator.

I just use a metal ruler I have in the shed for volumes but making a measuring stick out of something else will do the job too. The other way to do it is to measure the head space, so just the distance from the top of the pot to the liquid. You could probably do that with a normal ruler and it's just as accurate.

Now for the really magical part of brewing, fermentation! Brewers make wort but yeast makes beer!

Post #5 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
I'm curious what number I'll hit on my next brew.

Indeed! The airlock was bubbling nicely this morning. I can't wait to taste the beer my yeast is making me :)
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by nosco
What Contrarian said. Ive been brewing BIAB with the Biabicus for 2 years now and Im still terrible at taking records and measurements (sorry PP) and I think thats partly because Im easily distracted and because its surprisingly easy to make beer. Even easier with the biabicus. Your beer will taste great.

Like Contrarian said there a lot of reasons why your OG and FG may be different than predicted so Id wait a few brews until you start adjusting things.

Thermometers tend to be a bit slow unless you want to spend on a good one and even then you cant be sure of accuracy. If you have to raise temp them go easy with adding heat as it can take awhile for digital thermometers to catch up. Ive never used a glass one after I heard of them breaking in a brew. Its very easy to over shoot when raising temps so you learn with xp.

Me personally I wouldn't bother with an iodine test. Use the force.

Happy brewing :D
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Congratulations on your first BIAB :clap:

It was mentioned to measure the height of your wort either by from the bottom up or just the headspace. Sections U and V are great for this. Armed with this, you will be on-track for discovering your efficiencies much better.

Are you measuring the gravity with a hydrometer and with the wort close to its calibration temperature, if then, you will be ready to record your actuals on BIABacus's to come.


Yay :luck:

MS
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
Thanks!
Mad_Scientist wrote:It was mentioned to measure the height of your wort either by from the bottom up or just the headspace. Sections U and V are great for this. Armed with this, you will be on-track for discovering your efficiencies much better.
Ooh didn't see this. This is exactly what I need :). Will be looking for a long metal ruler shortly.
Mad_Scientist wrote:Are you measuring the gravity with a hydrometer and with the wort close to its calibration temperature, if then, you will be ready to record your actuals on BIABacus's to come.
Pre-boil it was way hotter but I used a calculator to correct it according the calibration. Post-boil was also post-chill so pretty much spot on the calibration temp (20°).
Last edited by chlehb on 02 Feb 2016, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
There are some real problems with this recipe etc, etc.

Several basics were over-looked in the planning thread so this thread/brew is an example of premature brewaculation ;).

I have just written to you chlehb here.

There is already some incorrect advice above* [EDIT: Oops! No that was me mis-reading :lol:] so I think that before any further advice is offered, your original thread should be read thoroughly by you and resolved by experienced brewers.

As for congratulating you on your pics and first brew day, posts like that are always great and I join them for sure.

:thumbs:
PP

Any advice, please use the other thread and study it really well first as so many basics have been missed.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Feb 2016, 22:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
PistolPatch wrote:There is already some incorrect advice above
No, there isn't!!!

Above I thought that it had been suggested that Chris change his defaults. That was due to me misreading one post above. Oops!!! All the above posts are excellent :thumbs: :clap: :salute: :champ:

Even before me seeing my error, Chris (chlehb) kindly responded to me in his planning thread and hopefully my answer identifies that there is nothing to worry about or over-analyse on Chris's first brew which is what all of you were saying anyway :). Hopefully, Chris also sees he is NOT TO CHANGE THE DEFAULTS etc etc :).

(There are some more things to address specifically on this individual brew re volumes but I'll deal with that tomoz in the other thread.)

Loving all the pics and would love more info on them but I better ask only one question...

Chris, on some of the pics, I am seeing a white wire going into the mash and boil. I'm also just reading, "I then turned on the heat again but my temperature probe must have been stuck somewhere as it didn't really budge until suddenly it was 71°."

Didn't see any of that until now but that could well be a part of your low efficiency problem. You can't let a probe sink into the mash or wort, it needs to be floated. (Hopefully someone else can expand on this as there is one more question I want to get to before my brain fades :)).

Hope I have been more of a help than a hindrance,
Pat
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Feb 2016, 01:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
Yep I'd love to further discuss any feedback in the other thread.

Ask away regarding the pictures! I think you forgot your second question? :)
Yeah the temperature probe end of the wire was just anywhere in the wort at a given time. Although I did make sure to move it around a bit or dangle it in the middle if I wanted to record a temperature. Didn't know about the floating thing, I'll look into that!

You've been a great help Pat!
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

Post #12 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
If you can run your probe down to the bottom on the outside of the bag whilst heating, you will see higher temps there then inside the grain bag. The best way to get to your target temp is low heat and stirring. The inside bag temp will eventually catch up to the outside bag temp.

MS
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
by mally
Mad_Scientist wrote:Safe temperatures for reading a wort sample with a hydrometer are between + 7° C and - 9° C.
Richard - I think your Bushels to Firkins calculator has gone awry :scratch:
-9C wort is a solid block of ice, aint not hydro gon float in dat!
Last edited by mally on 04 Feb 2016, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
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I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #15 made 10 years ago
by thughes
mally wrote:Richard - I think your Bushels to Firkins calculator has gone awry
:lol:


---Todd
Last edited by thughes on 04 Feb 2016, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #17 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
Mad_Scientist wrote:If you can run your probe down to the bottom on the outside of the bag whilst heating, you will see higher temps there then inside the grain bag. The best way to get to your target temp is low heat and stirring. The inside bag temp will eventually catch up to the outside bag temp.
So would you float the probe on the inside?
Last edited by chlehb on 04 Feb 2016, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale

Post #18 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Mad_Scientist wrote:Safe temperatures for reading a wort sample with a hydrometer are between + 7° C and - 9° C.

MS
Maybe I can redeem myself?

Over on the BIABacus 'Unit Conversion' tab I was having a play with the 'Hydrometer Temperature Calibration' tool. I also was looking on some hydrometer websites and found VEE GEE. For a hydro calibrated at 20° C, a good safe range of temperatures would be between + 27° C and + 11° C, IMO.
Vee Gee Brix Hydrometer with thermometer.png
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 05 Feb 2016, 03:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #19 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
chlehb wrote:
Mad_Scientist wrote:If you can run your probe down to the bottom on the outside of the bag whilst heating, you will see higher temps there then inside the grain bag. The best way to get to your target temp is low heat and stirring. The inside bag temp will eventually catch up to the outside bag temp.
So would you float the probe on the inside?
Can your probe and wire be submerged? What does your digital probe manual say?
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 05 Feb 2016, 03:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #20 made 10 years ago
by thughes
Mad_Scientist wrote:Maybe I can redeem myself?
I see you subscribe to BB's theory: "Breakfast Stout isn't just for breakfast any more".


---Todd
Last edited by thughes on 05 Feb 2016, 05:14, edited 1 time in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #21 made 10 years ago
by mally
Mad_Scientist wrote:Maybe I can redeem myself?
No worries Richard, I was only having a little fun :party:
I can see now you meant temp differential from nominal, it just read as actual temp range. :thumbs:

Anyway, back to the OP, hopefully chleb is sorted with the recommendations?
Last edited by mally on 05 Feb 2016, 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #22 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
PistolPatch wrote:Chris... I'm also just reading, "I then turned on the heat again but my temperature probe must have been stuck somewhere as it didn't really budge until suddenly it was 71°."

You can't let a probe sink into the mash or wort, it needs to be floated. (Hopefully, someone else can expand on this as there is one more question I want to get to before my brain fades :)).
More below on the floating thing. AS for the second question, I meant answering a question in another thread sorry :).
Mad_Scientist wrote:Can your probe and wire be submerged? What does your digital probe manual say?
Okay they are the questions that need answering and is what I meant by the floating problem. Nearly all digital probe thermometers can't be submerged in the mash or wort as it makes them get "stuck" as Chris experienced. (To fix/repair this Chris, you might get lucky by submerging your probe in boiling water as this should release the sugar that will have crystallised in the connection.)

So Rule 1, don't let your probe become submerged in the wort. To do this you float it as follows...
P1010012-0000.jpg
Sorry, thought I had a better pic on the site somewhere using a green plastic container :scratch:. Anyway, I hope you get the idea, you pierce a plastic lid or container so as the part where the probe meets the braided wire, remains clear of the mash or wort.

It does not matter that the probe is floating at the top of the wort as before you do any temperature checks, Rule 2 applies :)...

No matter what type of thermometer or where it is placed, you should be agitating the mash or wort so as it is mixed evenly before taking any temperature readings.

Gotta race :salute:....
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Feb 2016, 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #23 made 10 years ago
by chlehb
I'll have to check the manual of my thermometer, didn't know that!
Will be floating it next time then.

Thanks again!
Bottled: Cooper's APA
Fermenting: Citrus IPA, Canadian stye ale
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