I learned a bit on my first BIAB, so thought I'd try something more suited to the
beastly hot Texas summer, and bought an AG Saison kit from my local guy.
I've learned that their printed instructions are the same for whatever you buy, so
I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say that only beginners actually
read their instructions. Regardless.
So I decided that I'd try a step mash that I found somewhere, and really all that did
was turn my 90 minute step mash into a 120 minute step mash, because of the time it took
to get the water to move to the next step. Still, I'm a newby, so this is all adding to my
experience, so no harm done, right?
So, after the 120 minutes, and adjusting for what I learned about grain absorption on the last
brew, I had the correct amount of wort. I decided that I'd also stretch the 60 boil into a
75 boil, and went with that. Same cooldown as before, 10 gallon kettle into an large plastic
container, hose trickling into the bottom, and 30 minutes later we were down to 100 degrees
(ambient temp for the day). I had cooled five gallons of water in the ferm fridge, shooting
for 40, but the unit could only get it to 45 in the 24 hours I gave it. Still, emptied the
plastic container, poured in the chilled water, and 30 minutes later I have 75 degree wort.
Where I live, and this time of year, I'm gonna call this success.
Rehydrated Belle Saison yeast, threw it into the fermenter, and cleaned up. Longest brew day to date,
but I caused that. I set the fermenter for 75 degrees, and on the fifth day moved it to 77 degrees,
and planned for a one week FG test.
Tonight I popped the bucket lid, sanitized the hydrometer, and gave the thing a spin. Maybe it was
1.000, or maybe it was 1.002. either way, I didn't believe my eyes, so I pulled the hydrometer, plopped
it in the sanitizer again, and came back with the same (low) reading. This yeast is a beast.
Now, I'm pondering my options. Here is where I need some more experienced voices whispering options.
Should I bottle the beer as soon as I can find the time? Should I let it go another week at
the same temp, or even a higher temp? Should I back the temp down for a bit of a cold crash?
I'm ready, fire away.
Post #2 made 10 years ago
SoccerFan, The 75F to 80F is a 'Wine' style fermentation. It will cause many types of Esters(off flavors) to happen.
But, The yeast in the beer will/Should not harm you, so siphon a 5oz sample and give it a taste.
It should be drinkable.
If it tastes like "&^(*%" it won't be worth Bottling.
If you find it Drink-able, I would go with Cold Crashing, then Siphon it into your Bottling tank and let it warm to bottling Temperatures.
But, The yeast in the beer will/Should not harm you, so siphon a 5oz sample and give it a taste.
It should be drinkable.
If you find it Drink-able, I would go with Cold Crashing, then Siphon it into your Bottling tank and let it warm to bottling Temperatures.
Last edited by joshua on 31 Aug 2015, 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
That temp is just fine for a Saison. I haven't used Belle Saison, but the liquid ones are all good to that temp and higher. Joshua may be thinking you are using a more regular / generic ale yeast...
I usually give 2 weeks in the fermentor no matter what, lets things condition a little bit. With a saison, you will find it improves greatly with age. Will be tasty after 2 weeks in the bottles but will be incredible after 2 months, if you can make it last that long. Let us know how it turns out.
I usually give 2 weeks in the fermentor no matter what, lets things condition a little bit. With a saison, you will find it improves greatly with age. Will be tasty after 2 weeks in the bottles but will be incredible after 2 months, if you can make it last that long. Let us know how it turns out.
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
I would let it go a little longer. Most of the sugars are eaten by the yeast in the first few days of fermentation. Once the sugars are eaten the yeast turn to cleaning up byproducts such as diacetyl and others in the beer.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
Saison yeast are a different animal, as goulaigan points out. I think you are fine with the temps you mention, though if it were an English ale yeast, then not so much.
Good to hear you are using a hydrometer. You didn't mention how long it's been in primary. There are several strains of "Saison" yeast, and some are very slow to hit FG, but 1.000 is close to done. However, it could potentially still go lower. I'd leave it at least 3 weeks in primary, a month won't hurt.
From Northern Brewer on Belle Saison yeast: "Fermentation temperature should be kept above 63F - it is unknown at this time what the upper limit for this yeast strain is, but free-rising from pitch temperature is encouraged".
Depending on how long it's already been, I'd say keep gradually increasing the temp, a degree and day or something. I wouldn't be afraid to take it into the 90s if you can.
Then you could cold crash and bottle, or don't cold crash and bottle!
Good to hear you are using a hydrometer. You didn't mention how long it's been in primary. There are several strains of "Saison" yeast, and some are very slow to hit FG, but 1.000 is close to done. However, it could potentially still go lower. I'd leave it at least 3 weeks in primary, a month won't hurt.
From Northern Brewer on Belle Saison yeast: "Fermentation temperature should be kept above 63F - it is unknown at this time what the upper limit for this yeast strain is, but free-rising from pitch temperature is encouraged".
Depending on how long it's already been, I'd say keep gradually increasing the temp, a degree and day or something. I wouldn't be afraid to take it into the 90s if you can.
Then you could cold crash and bottle, or don't cold crash and bottle!
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
The yeast is a dry Lallemand Danstar Belle Saison.
This is only my 8th brew, and thus far I've only used dry yeast.
The first six brews were extract, and this is my second AG.
When I checked the FG that was a week, Sunday to Sunday that the brew
had been in the bucket. 6 of the 8 brews I've done lived in the bucket
for two weeks before bottling. The first one, I followed the recipe
from the LHBS to the letter, and racked it to secondary after a week.
The 7th I bottled when the FG hit what the recipe said was done.
As much as I enjoy the process of brewing....I like drinking beer even more.
Unless I brew every weekend, and that would take another ferm bucket, a larger
fermenter, blah blah, I can't see myself letting a beer sit in primary for
a month. I enjoy the different flavors, I enjoy giving it away to people
who are surprised that home brew tastes this good, so letting it sit there for
a month, then in a bottle for another two weeks.....maybe I'm ADHD.
Can't see it.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll follow protocol, and let it go until Sunday.
Or maybe Saturday, clean on Sunday and brew on Monday?
I'm already plotting the next brew....Pale Ale.
This is only my 8th brew, and thus far I've only used dry yeast.
The first six brews were extract, and this is my second AG.
When I checked the FG that was a week, Sunday to Sunday that the brew
had been in the bucket. 6 of the 8 brews I've done lived in the bucket
for two weeks before bottling. The first one, I followed the recipe
from the LHBS to the letter, and racked it to secondary after a week.
The 7th I bottled when the FG hit what the recipe said was done.
As much as I enjoy the process of brewing....I like drinking beer even more.
Unless I brew every weekend, and that would take another ferm bucket, a larger
fermenter, blah blah, I can't see myself letting a beer sit in primary for
a month. I enjoy the different flavors, I enjoy giving it away to people
who are surprised that home brew tastes this good, so letting it sit there for
a month, then in a bottle for another two weeks.....maybe I'm ADHD.
Can't see it.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll follow protocol, and let it go until Sunday.
Or maybe Saturday, clean on Sunday and brew on Monday?
I'm already plotting the next brew....Pale Ale.
Post #7 made 10 years ago
SoccerFan I would not leave the beer on the yeast for more than 2 weeks.
If you have another Container that can hold the beer, in a cool Dark Place, you can use it as a "Secondary", Off the yeast cake, and let the beer Clear by itself.
A Cask or Barrel or Longer term Container.
If you have another Container that can hold the beer, in a cool Dark Place, you can use it as a "Secondary", Off the yeast cake, and let the beer Clear by itself.
A Cask or Barrel or Longer term Container.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
I have left beer on yeast for up to 4 weeks with no ill result. Especially with Belgians where much of the beers flavour is yeast derived. The old thinking that yeast autolosys will cause off flavours after a week or 2 has been well debunked. It may be beneficial in certain beers to get the beer off after 2 weeks but the majority will be perfectly fine for a month or more. That being said, I haven't found any advantage to leaving beers on the yeast more than 2 weeks unless they aren't quite finished, or unless I don't have time to bottle.
Beer will clear faster if left in primary than if transferred to a secondary. Sediment falls out slowly and gradually toward the bottom of the vessel, when you transfer to secondary you are mixing all the sediment that has been slowly moving to the bottom, except the stuff that has reached the bottom, back into the clearer beer at the top...
Beer will clear faster if left in primary than if transferred to a secondary. Sediment falls out slowly and gradually toward the bottom of the vessel, when you transfer to secondary you are mixing all the sediment that has been slowly moving to the bottom, except the stuff that has reached the bottom, back into the clearer beer at the top...
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
There is a belief, that when you go to Secondary you not Only mix the beer, But, knock out CO2, and add Oxygen that causes the remaining Yeast to wake up and Continue working.
Old Wives tales, Maybe.
Old Wives tales, Maybe.
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
I had a Saison once that took 6 weeks to hit final gravity. That yeast is notoriously slow, WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast. Racking it out of primary at 2 weeks would have been a mistake.
Autolysis may have been more of a concern in the early days of homebrewing with questionable yeast packets that were likely mishandled, but with today's knowledge and high quality of yeast available, your beer may actually benefit from skipping a "secondary" and leaving it on primary for a month.
Autolysis may have been more of a concern in the early days of homebrewing with questionable yeast packets that were likely mishandled, but with today's knowledge and high quality of yeast available, your beer may actually benefit from skipping a "secondary" and leaving it on primary for a month.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
Joshua, that seems logical, but with a risk of oxidization.
Laserghost, that is exactly why I use 566 instead, same great saison taste with no stalling
Laserghost, that is exactly why I use 566 instead, same great saison taste with no stalling
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
I also really like the French Saison yeast 3711 by Wyeast – it finishes quick. Next Saison I do though, I'm gonna do a blend of yeasts, which would likely speed up fermentation as well as add a layer of complexity.
Also seems as though Saisons improve with a bit of age on them, so rushing it through the process may not actually yield the better brew.
Also seems as though Saisons improve with a bit of age on them, so rushing it through the process may not actually yield the better brew.
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Post #13 made 10 years ago
Hey Soccrfan - it's your Dad here Sounds like you did great with the Belle Saison. I have used it twice and really like it, but I might have kept it too cool (out of habit with other ales). I think it is at the higher temps that you get the saison characteristics of fruity and spicy. Let us know when the taste test rolls around.
Sounds like you did great with the Belle Saison. I have used it twice and really like it, but I might have kept it too cool (out of habit with other ales). I think it is at the higher temps that you get the saison characteristics of fruity and spicy. Let us know when the taste test rolls around.-
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
Hi Dad !
The Saison was a success. I kept it in the fermenter for two weeks, then bottled and let it go
two weeks before tasting. I've about half of it left, after four weeks, so it is unlikely, given
the gatherings I have at my house in the next few weeks, that any will survive until the two
month mark. (Maybe I should hide a bottle or two just for arguments sake, to see what happens?)
Just to recap, it fully fermented in a week using the Belle Saison yeast at 75 degrees in the
fermenter. I'm already sorta thinking about brewing this one again, and let it go a little
higher just to see what happens. I did quite a bit of reading before making this beer, as
the Saison style really is one of my favorites, and most of what I read encouraged brewers
to let this one get much higher than your normal ale temps.
The Saison was a success. I kept it in the fermenter for two weeks, then bottled and let it go
two weeks before tasting. I've about half of it left, after four weeks, so it is unlikely, given
the gatherings I have at my house in the next few weeks, that any will survive until the two
month mark. (Maybe I should hide a bottle or two just for arguments sake, to see what happens?)
Just to recap, it fully fermented in a week using the Belle Saison yeast at 75 degrees in the
fermenter. I'm already sorta thinking about brewing this one again, and let it go a little
higher just to see what happens. I did quite a bit of reading before making this beer, as
the Saison style really is one of my favorites, and most of what I read encouraged brewers
to let this one get much higher than your normal ale temps.
