Considering First wort hopping

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Hi there Lars,

Probably the best way to work out how to FWH is to first pick a 'normal' recipe to work from. Once you have picked that recipe then we can convert it to a FWH recipe.

Here's how...

Converting a 'Normal' Recipe to FWH

1. Work out your total Alpha Acid Units (different from IBU's).
2. Move 30-50% of those 'Alpha Acid Units' from late additions (flavour and aroma additions) to FWH.
3. Take from the latest addition first

For example, let's say your original recipe had a hop bill of...

50 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ 60 minutes (AAU = 50 x 5 = 250)
25 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ 20 minutes (AAU = 25 x 5 = 125)
25 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ 5 minutes (AAU = 50 x 5 = 125)

As all the above AA%'s are the same, this is easy. Thirty to fifty percent of the total AAU equals 30-50 grams. I'm going to choose to FWH at 40% so my new hop bill becomes...

40 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ FWH (Alpha Acids = 200
50 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ 60 minutes
10 grams Tettnang @ 5% AA @ 5 minutes

Note that I have 'stolen' from the latest addition first and that the entire hop bill weight remains unchanged.

A More Advanced Example

Let's say the original hop bill was...

50 grams Cascaded @ 6.8% AA @ 60 minutes
25 grams East Kent Goldings @ 5% AA @ 20 minutes
25 grams Styrian Goldings @ 3.3% AA @ 5 minutes

Here's the total Alpha Acid Units of the hop bill...

50 x 6.8 = 340
25 x 5 = 125
25 x 3.3 = 82.5
Total = 547.5

Let's say I just want to move 30% of the Alpha Acid Units to FWH's...

30% x 547.5 = 164.25

Straight away, I can see that I need to move all of the Styrian Goldings to FWH. This still leaves 81.75 units to move which I will take away from the Easy Kent Goldings.

81.75 / 5 = 16.35 grams of EKG that need to be moved to FWH.

So my FWH bill is now...

25 grams Styrian Goldings @ 3.3% AA @ FWH
16.35 grams East Kent Goldings @ 5% AA @ FWH
50 grams Cascaded @ 6.8% AA @ 60 minutes
8.65 grams East Kent Goldings @ 5% AA @ 20 minutes

Other Options

The principles above come from an article that George Fix put out in 1995. You can change the rules as much as you like though.

For example, you might decide that you would like to FWH at 40%. In the advanced example above, this would mean stealing from your 60 minute addition. You may choose to do this or not. In principle you wouldn't as this would add more flavour and aroma than you are calculating for.

Another extreme is where the brewer FWH's 30-50% of every addition. I suspect that they did this because they didn't really understand the original principles above. But, there could also be good reasons for doing this as long as you remember that FWH'ing any of your bittering addition will also add flavour and aroma.

For me personally, if experimenting with this, I would choose a recipe you know and drink regularly. Move all your flavour and aroma hops to FWH as long as this does not exceed 50%. I think this is the place to start if you can.

Anyway Lars, find a 'normal' recipe or one you have brewed already and if you need a hand FWH'ing it, post it up!


PP

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Considering First wort hopping

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It is very hard for most home brewers to have the time and resources to develop a 'house beer' they can experiment with. If you ever get a chance though, try and brew on the same day side by side with another brewer. That way, you can brew the same recipe but in two different ways which is always interesting. For example, normal hop one and FWH the other.

Todd's recipe above could be exactly what you are looking for? He's certainly got all the info there that is needed and it looks great

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Considering First wort hopping

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Considering First wort hopping

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I like Bob's post above as it begs the question, "Which hops are suitable for FWH'ing?" In other words, "Which hops do retain the flavour and aroma when FWH'ed and which ones don't?"

George Fix's article was based on pilsners which is a very narrow scope. I've only FWH'ed once on an APA and think I did it when I had dodgy kegs so can't even remember the result. I think Bob has FWH'ed quite a few beers. Anyone else?

While you guys sort the recipe side out, I'll try and sort out the maths . Just been working on a spreadsheet that will hopefully do the FWH conversion easily. PITA to write though .

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As usaul I have to dissagree with BB and join Joshua's camp.I FWH most of my brews and have used John Palmers advice as my guide.
This comes from his book "How to brew" and as an early disclaimer I do not consider him a "Brew God" that title is reserved for a few guys on this forum!
First Wort Hopping
An old yet recently rediscovered process (at least among homebrewers), first wort hopping (FWH) consists of adding a large portion of the finishing hops to the boil kettle as the wort is received from the lauter tun. As the boil tun fills with wort (which may take a half hour or longer), the hops steep in the hot wort and release their volatile oils and resins. The aromatic oils are normally insoluble and tend to evaporate to a large degree during the boil. By letting the hops steep in the wort prior to the boil, the oils have more time to oxidize to more soluble compounds and a greater percentage are retained during the boil.
John Palmer on:
First Wort Hopping
Only low alpha finishing hops should be used for FWH, and the amount should be no less than 30% of the total amount of hops used in the boil. This FWH addition therefore should be taken from the hops intended for finishing additions. Because more hops are in the wort longer during the boil, the total bitterness of the beer in increased but not by a substantial amount due to being low in alpha acid. In fact, one study among professional brewers determined that the use of FWH resulted in a more refined hop aroma, a more uniform bitterness (i.e. no harsh tones), and a more harmonious beer overall compared to an identical beer produced without FWH.

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[EDIT: Sorry Bob, wrote the below before I saw yours. What you wrote sounds excellent. Probably a whole new FWH Test thread is needed?]

Lars, look what you started

When the recipe guys get you sorted, I have the spreadsheet ready to go. (Only took five hours to get the basics working .) There's lots more ifs and buts that need to be put into it to cover every situation and then it needs to be made look good so I won't put it up on the site for some time. But, when you are ready to go with your recipe, I am ready to convert it. Good on me .

You other guys...

Not sure if you read any of my posts on hops that have the term, "Little Creatures" contained in them. If you have, you'll see why I am loving reading your posts above. They're a nice clash between what is written in theory and what actually results.

The great thing about theory is that it gives us a place to start. The bad thing about theory is that it often gets repeated without testing. We forget it is a theory and not a fact. For example, the FWH movement "took off" because of a single article based on FWH'ing a pilsner. That's it!

The great thing about results from actual brews is that they tell us whether the theory works. The bad thing about the results from these actual brews is that we, as home brewers, can hardly ever do side by side tests so the results are often subjective.

John Palmer has done some podcasts recently where he states that several of the things he has written or said before on hops is wrong. Some of these things include some aspects of what Lylo quoted above. That's a great attitude from John I reckon .

Lylo has followed the original advice John Palmer gave with success but the original advice may have stopped him from experimenting with high AA hops. Who knows? My generic advice given early above is based on the earliest FWH experiments which only applied to pilsners. It's not based on personal experience. So, what do I really know?

Bob and joshua have some definite and very nicely written thoughts on high AA% hops based on their experience but I don't know how subjective these are if the brews were not done side by side. Maybe they are 100% right, a lot right or only a bit right? Who knows?

The only real answer to this is designing good experiments which are practical and can be repeated easily by others. Even if you do these experiments side by side, it's a pretty hard ask to be able to get someone who can taste any subtle differences between two beers at the same time. Taste one and already your palate is compromised. So, which beer should you taste first? How many times should you taste it in different orders over different days?

I'm definitely going to think more on how to test FWH. I'm not confident I will come up with a good answer though.

Easy Research

There are however some other grey areas or myths in brewing that can very quickly and easily be put right or at least defined well. This thread is a great example. If you can get fifty brews recorded there, then we can start to say, "We now have a theory we think you can be very confident in."

The great thing about the guys that answer questions here regularly is, even if they think they have something right, they are always ready to doubt or re-examine their thinking.

There's also some brewers that just instinctively 'know' stuff in a certain area. I've never met joshua or tasted his beer but the way his post is written above makes me suspect he might be one of these naturals. Who knows?

Good on all of you recipe 'formulation' guys .

from a 'scaler'.

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Lol Lars ,

On the IBU bit, here is some more confusion for you... When the IBU's of a FWH'ed beer are measured scientifically,with instruments, the FWH will come out slightly higher than the 'normal' beer. However, tasting panels do not perceive a higher bitterness.

Some programs choose to give the scientific results, others choose to work on the palate. Some give the option to adjust. I've gone for option 2 which is perceived bitterness. In other words, you don't adjust or play with anything - we assume that the FWH is going to taste as bitter as the boiled hop

Doing it this way also matches the philosophy of not altering the overall weight of the hop bill when FWH'ing.

Your Hop Bill Converted

I haven't allowed any of your dry hops to be 'stolen' from Lars. Whether this is right or wrong, I don't know. If it is right, then your hop bill, assuming you want to move 40% of your hops, to FWH will be...

46.2 g Cascade (6.8%) @ FWH
16.0 g Amarillo (9.3%) @ 60 mins
10.0 g Cascade (6.8%) @ 60 mins
3.8 g Cascade (6.8%) @ 20 mins
20.0 g Cascade (6.8%) @ DH
10.0 g Amarillo (9.3%) @ DH

The overall perceived IBU's will theoretically be the same as the original recipe.

Let me know if you want me to decrease or increase the 40%.


PP

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