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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Welcome Tom to the forum.

Yes, most definitely you can use a kit for BIAB. You got it right, it is marketed. Those will get you started for sure!

:peace:

MS
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Yettiman
Hi,

Not sure about the kits you have seen, but the ones I have come across had the grain double milled.

PP has written a great post about whether to double milling or not, I think I remember correctly that it is not needed if you mash with the full amount of water for the full 90 minutes.

If I am wrong, others will point you at the thread.

But to get back to your point, the kits I have seen were double ground, so yes they will work well, but so will normal AG kits if you mash for 90 minutes
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi there teed,

Short on time but if you do get a kit, let us know a few days in advance what the ingredients are. Hopefully they have them listed. This way we'll be able to tell you how much water to use for the kit as the instructions that come with it won't consider things like your evaporation and efficiency. We'll be able to work those out for you.

Don't read too much!!!

:)
PP
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
by teedubyeah
PistolPatch wrote:Hi there teed,

Short on time but if you do get a kit, let us know a few days in advance what the ingredients are. Hopefully they have them listed. This way we'll be able to tell you how much water to use for the kit as the instructions that come with it won't consider things like your evaporation and efficiency. We'll be able to work those out for you.

Don't read too much!!!

:)
PP
Thanks for the offer, Are you suggesting that I could just plug the information from the kit into BIABacus and go from there?
Last edited by teedubyeah on 11 Jun 2014, 03:26, edited 1 time in total.

Post #7 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Doing that will allow for a better idea of how much water you will need initially and how much beer you will get out of the kit. You can go with the instructions with the kit but they will be pretty vague. If you can get the ingredients, yep then plug it into BIABacus. If you need a hand to do that, just ask as if you are working off a pre-determined amount of ingredients, you have to do a little juggling of one section ;).
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by jhough
Teed, welcome first. And second I saw some kits that you might be talking about at my LHBS.
They seem straight forward ... Plug them into biabacus first and let us see the fie. I think , if done properly,it will turn out fine. I did not look at their instructions ,so I could not tell you if it was a true BiaB.
J
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
by teedubyeah
Ok Guys,
I am new and have only brewed extract on my own so pardon my ignorance. I have been looking at this kit (They have it in extract but I think I need to face my fears and move beyond that)http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/anti ... n-kit.html
The instructions are here (http://www.northernbrewer.com/documenta ... thesis.pdf) I plugged these in to BIABacus. I am attaching the file. Please lmk if I did this correct or if I'm a total loss.
I dont have the kettle measurements with me right now so if those seem off I just guessed. I figure I could adjust those later.
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
These are the approximate volumes I would use Tom. I am posting just the report for now in case you are planning on brewing this over the weekend.

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3K RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Recipe Batch Number and Dates[/center]

Recipe Overview
Brewer:
Style:
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 7.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)
Original Gravity (OG): 1.066
IBU's (Tinseth): 38.5
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.58
Colour:
Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 94 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 84.7 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures
Mash: 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment:

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Total Water Needed (TWN): 33.10 L = 8.74 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 31.98 L = 8.45 G @ 1.035/9 >> no grape extract added yet <<
>> Volume at Flame-Out (VFO): 23.09 L = 6.10 G <<
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 22.2 L = 5.86 G @ 1.066
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 20 L = 5.28 G @ 1.066
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 19.02 L = 5.03 G @ 1.011 assuming apparent attenuation of 83 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)
Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)
75.2% 3971 grams = 8.75 pounds
24.8% grape extract 1307 grams = 2.88 pounds! >> added at VFO <<

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
8.3 IBU Pellets (12%AA) 7 grams = 0.247 ounces at 60 mins
30.2 IBU Pellets (12%AA) 42 grams = 1.481 ounces at 20 mins

Mash Steps
Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash) for 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Mashout for for 10 mins at 77 C = 170.6 F

Miscellaneous Ingredients
1/2 Tab Whirfloc (Boil) 5 Mins - Clarity

Chilling & Hop Management Methods
Hopsock Used: Y (Pulled 0 mins after boil end.)
Whirlpool: 20 mins after boil end.

Fermentation & Conditioning

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 13 Jun 2014, 06:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
teeds, we really need your kettle dimensions to do this properly. Give them to me and I will do the recipe for you in a later BIABacus which handles extract. The version you are using doesn't and also uses obsolete terminology.

So, that's your job for now.

In the meantime, here's a few things for you...

There are a few problems with Norther Brewer recipes that we need to get around. Firstly they don't give an Alpha Acid percentage of hops which is not very good as the oils in a hop can vary greatly from one year to another. In other words, you may need a lot more or lot less of a hop to replicate a recipe depending on when the hops were harvested. Not giving the original AA% of the hops used in the original recipe is a big integrity error.

See how on the right of Section D, there are no weights under 'What you will use'? This is because there is no AA%. Above I see that MS has used 12% for the hops which is good for Nelson Sauvin and I'll be using that.

The next problem with Northern Brewer is that they don't tell you the 'VAW - Volume of Ambient Wort' (later versions of BIABacus no longer use the term EOBV-A) that they are making. We've worked it out before to be 5.5 gallons which is 20.83 litres so I will be changing that on the first line of Section D.

After you have measured your kettle, while you are waiting, have a read of the first page or so of the stickied topics in the New Members forum that contain the word "integrity". Also check out Clear Brewing Terminology and discover the difference between VAW and Volume into Fermentor.

By the way, if your kettle is a keg instead of a pot, you will need to read the bottom half of this post before measuring.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Jun 2014, 09:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
by stinkyfeet
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but all this is basically what I've been pondering. Just starting out I thought it would be easier to buy a pre-measured all grain kit from Northern Brewer or Austin Homebrew. So, say having the kit in hand with it's "limited" recipe, do I make the kit as is (with 90 min mash & boil times) or do I enter what I can into BIABacus,including kettle dimensions, of course, and use the "What you will use" numbers in section C & D? From PP's answer above, it looks like the latter. Is the difference in weights because of the full volume mash technique? I've seen here that BobBrews does kits quite often.

Also, if I have to use less water volume (is this Maxi-BIAB?) what is the most you would recommend holding off from the mash and adding to the fermenter later on without compromising too much? This is because my kettle size may be somewhat limited.

Probably all this is way obvious to you, but I'm just trying to get my head around it. Thanks.

Post #13 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Tom, the report I posted is from an advanced BIABacus that handles extract, so it's pretty close. PP will get it more exact. I am a student.
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
stinkyfeet wrote:...having the kit in hand with it's "limited" recipe, do I make the kit as is (with 90 min mash & boil times) or do I enter what I can into BIABacus,including kettle dimensions, of course, and use the "What you will use" numbers in section C & D? From PP's answer above, it looks like the latter. Is the difference in weights because of the full volume mash technique? I
In teedy's case and your case, when you have already bought ingredients, what you need to do is enter them into the left hand side of the BIABacus. (Also use 90 minute mash and boil as that is just good practice).

Once you have done the above, then you need to change the 'Desired Volume into Fermentor' in Section B until the right hand side of the grain bill matches the left. This is about the only scenario on the BIABacus where you have to play this game of twenty questions.

The reason that the grain bills will vary is nothing to do with full volume. The reason is that the retailer (Northern Brewer) is using a generic 'kettle efficiency' that will be like a sock that will cover enough size feet well enough. It is not a proper match though. Generally on an average size brew, the BIABacus will show you that you wil probably get more beer than the kit says.

If it doesn't, the chances are that you are not comparing the VAW of Northern Brewer (5.5 gallons) with the VAW of the BIABacus (see section K).

You can brew with the generic instructions that come with the kit and you'll get close enough. Putting it in the BIABacus will get you much closer though as it will be tailoring things to your equipment.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jun 2014, 13:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #15 made 10 years ago
by stinkyfeet
Thanks PistolP. Great info; let me digest that for awhile. Maybe it make more sense to go with a regular recipe instead. It's just that it feels a little safer going with a clone brew since I know what they taste like. We'll see. Thanks again.

stinkyfeet

Post #16 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
stinky, the kit will be fine so don't worry about it. Just give us your kettle dimensions and we'll be able to tell you how much water to start with. That's really all you need to know!
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