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0 Minutes

Post by Philip321 » 3 weeks ago

If I put hops in at o minutes, how long do I leave them in the wort.
I no chill my wort. ie I let it cool over night.

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Re: 0 Minutes

Post by ShorePoints » 3 weeks ago

Philip321 - This is a great topic to bring up, thanks.

The answer to your question is another question: How long do you want your final hops addition to experience wort temperatures above about 75 ºC (167 ºF)? The rate of isomerization to bitterness becomes negligible below 75 ºC. The BIABacus does not show an increase in IBUs for the later hops additions, but I do not know if there is an assumed cooling rate to arrive at 75 ºC after FO.
My guess is that your 0 minute addition can still be at 0 min or you might add them later if you can still remove them before transfer to your cube (I am thinking that removing hops from a cube is a difficult task). It is complicated because your hot wort into the cube is supposed to contact all interior surfaces while at high temperature and that does not happen if you waited until the wort hit 75 ºC. I know that's not helpful, sorry.

Do you have an idea when your no-chill wort gets to 75 ºC? If it takes hours (summer?) then flavor hops are becoming bittering hops. Have you detected this? I started keeping track of the temperature drop rate only 6 batches ago. It is a projected time based on experience, but still has some slop as for when it hits that number. I have to decide when to put the final hops into the hot wort prior to when that temperature is reached, knowing that the rate of isomerization is declining. For 0 min hops additions in the recipe, i choose x minutes before reaching 75 ºC. x could be between 20 and 40 minutes. Based on my chilling efforts and timing, that could be before or after FO. Then comes the next question - does one leave the hop sock in the wort as the temperature goes from 75 ºC to pitching temperature? Probably not if you no-chill in a cube overnight.

The isomerization of the alpha acida (AA) to bitter flavors progresses slowly but steadily, hence 60 minute additions of hops are for bitterness and (aside from FWH as another topic) adding hops to the boil with longer than 60 minutes remaining is pointless, they are done isomerizing to what you want. Flavoring hops (and to a small degree they add aroma) are added with around 20 minutes or less to go in the boil. At 0 minutes, or Flame Out (FO), everybody's wort is hot. Some start chilling immediately, some whirlpool and have some time pass whilst doing that before chilling, some wait a set amount of time and then chill actively, and those who no-chill have the longest time period with hot wort. During the time period where the wort is above 75 ºC, the isomerization is still going and adding some bitterness, not all staying as flavor. I do not have the data to give a more exact answer.

I think it is wonderful that there are choices and we know that rapid chilling is not a hard and fast law.
Is there a standard for late-wort hopping?

My question for others is a rewording of your question - How long should hops stay in wort on the cooling curve from FO to pitching temperature?


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Re: 0 Minutes

Post by Philip321 » 3 weeks ago

Thanx for the reply Shore Points,
I do not cube the hot wort. The thought of handling hot wort seems dangerous to me, and the thought of putting hot wort into a plastic cube sends a shiver down my spine for health reasons (that is, hot liquid in plastic and the reaction plastic has)

I've never timed the wort while it no chills in the boiler over night. (Over the top of the boiler, I put two tea towels sewn together with an elastic bungie/strap around them)

Having now read your answer, I'll try leaving the 0 minutes hops in a hop sock in the hot wort until the temperature goes down to below 75C

I'll have to honest with you, every time I see o minutes I put the hops in at 20 minutes and at flame out I remove the hop sock which now contains all the hops i.e. 90 minutes and 30 minutes and 20 minutes etc


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Re: 0 Minutes

Post by Philip321 » 3 weeks ago

I've just realised that this topic should have been in Hops and not in here.
Please could an administrator move it to hops.


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Re: 0 Minutes

Post by PistolPatch » 2 weeks ago

Philip321 wrote:
3 weeks ago
I'll have to honest with you, every time I see o minutes I put the hops in at 20 minutes and at flame out I remove the hop sock...
If you do that Philip, you'll be losing aroma etc. Have a read of this thread Chilling Myths - Asking the Right Questions. That will help you understand things a little better.

Also, when starting out, keep things as simple as possible. So stick to 75 mins for bittering additions, 15 mins for flavour additions and 0 mins for aroma additions. If you have a favourite brew, once you are used to it, then you can try varying things a little to see if you can detect any differences.

;)
PP
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