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100% Wheat Beer with BIAB

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by jimmysuperlative
Steve and James from Basic Brewing use the BIAB method to brew a 100% wheat beer (with decoction) and generally espouse the benefits of using BIAB for wheat beers...


Basic Brewing page linky


Look for April 15, 2010 - All-Wheat Beer edition

I think I'll give it a bash myself! ;)
Last edited by jimmysuperlative on 02 May 2010, 08:05, edited 10 times in total.
Everybody's waitin' for the man with the bag ... K Starr (1950)

Post #3 made 14 years ago
by Ralph
I'm doing up a BIAB + decoction batch for another guide right now! I did one last weekend but SNAFUed by adding polenta, just too complex as it was BIAB + cereal mash + decotion... So for today I culled the polenta and did much the same Munich Helles as last time. Might take a few days to get some text together, but keep your eyes peeled, as they say...

I'd better fly though, the decoct is on the stove and boiling, is just about done!
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #5 made 13 years ago
by Cameron
I'm in love with the BIAB process, especially when I read about home brewers' trials and tribulations brewing with large amounts of rye, wheat, oats and adding rice hulls. ***Imagine a world where none of that was a problem***

Post #6 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good on you Cameron :peace:. It is a very nice way to brew.

Until the above, I hadn't heard of anyone having problems BIABing a wheat beer and the guy in the link above actually wasn't really BIABing as he had a manifold underneath his bag - totally unnecessary. I reckon this would have been the real reason why he got stuck, stux :lol:. His bag actually looks okay. The bag has thousands of small holes compared to the, (well, I can't even see any,) few holes in his manifold!

Anyway, I think whether you BIAB or have a traditional system, the best policy is to not make wheat beer because, I think, they don't taste very nice :lol:.

There was a guy in America two or three years ago that BIABed a Rye beer though and scored 49 out of 50 in a comp :o. I have never had a rye beer but if it is anything like rye bread, then I can't see myself ever brewing one.

If Australia ever wins the America's Cup back I will brew a wheat beer and a rye beer though!

Yep, I think that covers me :lol:,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 27 Jan 2011, 19:08, edited 10 times in total.
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Post #8 made 13 years ago
by GrainWaterYeast
Not to be a downer about the versatility of BIAB ('cause it does, in fact, rock the proverbial house), but I just learned the hard way that an all rye beer is still annoyingly difficult to pull off with BIAB. Long story short, I have a very fine mesh bag made of nylon, and the rye formed a slimy sticky layer that coated the inside of the bag and turned it into an impermeable balloon. I let the bag sit on a wire over rack above the pot for...well, for forever, but the wort just wouldn't drain. In the end, I got about 13 liters into my fermenter instead of the 20 I was planning on.

The wort smells and tastes fantastic, and that makes me even more cheesed off that I got so little into my fermenter. So now I have an almost homicidal desire to redo this recipe with a different technique that will remain faithful to BIAB ('cause I'm lazy and cheap!) but will overcome the gelatinous rye film problem. So here are some ideas:

1) Use a bag with larger holes so that the gelatinous film can't form. The holes can't be too big, however, or else what's the point of even having a bag? A possible solution to this is to have a second BIAB bag with a fine mesh (like my current nylon mesh) that I carefully put into the pot after the boil is finished to use as a filter which keeps particulate matter from getting into my siphoned wort.

2) Use four fine mesh bags to hold the grains during the mash. This increases the surface area available to the grain volume (as it is divided amongst four bags) which - based on my voodoo math - should reduce the amount of wort that stays trapped in the grains in the center of each grain bag (since there would be less grain trapped in the center of each bag).

Do either of these seem doable? Is there something I'm missing?

By the way, I have done an all wheat dunkelweizen with my BIAB set up, and it came out wonderfully. Granted, I have only the hydrometer samples to go by thus far, but it's looking like it will be a real winner.

Post #9 made 13 years ago
by Ralph
Yeah, second that about Rye, it is pretty sticky stuff, even at low proportions and after lautering. FWIW, I drain my wort with whole hops through a colander, most of it usually runs through with ease and I leave the wet hops to drain over night to capture the last bit of wort for starters, usually about 500ml. I did a 20% Rye ESB a while back, I knew it wasn't being cooperative right from the start, lautering (lift and squeeze) wasn't quite as straight forward as normal but we got there eventually, however after colandering, draining the hops overnight yielded a little under 2L of sticky wort!
For me the key was to be very patient while lautering, sparge/ mashout thoroughly, the higher temps of mashout will help with liquefaction and then some more patience again at colandering. Nice beer though!

GWH, I'd look at a protein rest, but also coarser mesh for your bag. If you do that and there's more grain debris in the boil (not unlikley), it should still all flocculate at the end of the boil, I wouldn't worry about filtering the wort afterwards. I'd reinforce the importance of the mashout step with Rye as well.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #10 made 13 years ago
by GrainWaterYeast
Thanks for the responses regarding the rye beer. Looking back on it now, I think you're all spot on about doing a protein rest and a mash out. In fact, I feel like a moron for not thinking of those two steps beforehand, considering how much I'd read about rye being a slimy pain in the ass to deal with.

I have a schwarzbier and a Maris Otter + Honey Malt lager to knock out over the next two weeks, but after that I will definitely give the 100% rye experiment another go. I should probably start a new thread instead of highjacking this one, though.

By the way, as I type this I'm drinking one of my 100% wheat dunkelweizens, and it's not half bad. The darker wheat grains don't really impart much 'roastiness', and the taste is tart (which is weird in a dark beer), but the texture is silky smooth and - if I ignore the fact that it's a 'dunkelweizen' - I like it a lot. So, my verdict is that 100% wheat beers are great, but dunkelweizens need dark barley.

Post #11 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
I did a rye-wheat lager last year and I didn't have to much of a problem. I did a longer protein rest and mash out. I (may) have added rice hulls? I was not super thrilled with the beer (if I remember right) It was a bit spicy and sharp. I think it went well with a sandwich? The leftover grains which usually go to the horses were dumped because of the consistency.
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Post #12 made 13 years ago
by GrainWaterYeast
Just a quick note about my rye beer: it sucks @$$. I popped one open after a week and a half in the bottle and...it's just too damn thick. But I can't bring myself to toss a beer. Even if it's liquid botulism in a bottle, it's MY liquid botulism in a bottle. So I'm going to try finding other uses for it. Maybe as an ingredient in cooking. "What to do with bad beer." This deserves its own thread, and I'm off to do that right now.

Post #16 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
In regards to #13 above. I did not use rice hulls! I was working off a recipe that I have now looked up and I didn't use any! The beer wasn't a favorite with me so the recipe is now in the bin. You don't need rice hulls. BIAB eliminates the need for them.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #17 made 12 years ago
by de5m0mike
GrainWaterYeast wrote:Not to be a downer about the versatility of BIAB ('cause it does, in fact, rock the proverbial house), but I just learned the hard way that an all rye beer is still annoyingly difficult to pull off with BIAB. Long story short, I have a very fine mesh bag made of nylon, and the rye formed a slimy sticky layer that coated the inside of the bag and turned it into an impermeable balloon. I let the bag sit on a wire over rack above the pot for...well, for forever, but the wort just wouldn't drain. In the end, I got about 13 liters into my fermenter instead of the 20 I was planning on.

The wort smells and tastes fantastic, and that makes me even more cheesed off that I got so little into my fermenter. So now I have an almost homicidal desire to redo this recipe with a different technique that will remain faithful to BIAB ('cause I'm lazy and cheap!) but will overcome the gelatinous rye film problem. So here are some ideas:

1) Use a bag with larger holes so that the gelatinous film can't form. The holes can't be too big, however, or else what's the point of even having a bag? A possible solution to this is to have a second BIAB bag with a fine mesh (like my current nylon mesh) that I carefully put into the pot after the boil is finished to use as a filter which keeps particulate matter from getting into my siphoned wort.

2) Use four fine mesh bags to hold the grains during the mash. This increases the surface area available to the grain volume (as it is divided amongst four bags) which - based on my voodoo math - should reduce the amount of wort that stays trapped in the grains in the center of each grain bag (since there would be less grain trapped in the center of each bag).

Do either of these seem doable? Is there something I'm missing?

By the way, I have done an all wheat dunkelweizen with my BIAB set up, and it came out wonderfully. Granted, I have only the hydrometer samples to go by thus far, but it's looking like it will be a real winner.

I'm curious what your water to grist ratio was.
Last edited by de5m0mike on 16 Nov 2011, 08:12, edited 10 times in total.

Post #18 made 12 years ago
by GrainWaterYeast
Hi de5m0mike,

To be honest, I can't find my log for that batch, but I brewed it before I had access to the awesome BIAB calculator. So I suspect that my early batches, including that one, had too little water. Having said that, though, when I do get around to attempting an all rye beer again, my focus is going to be on the protein rest. I didn't do any protein rest the last time, and I suspect that's a big reason why the mash was so 'syrupy.'

Post #19 made 12 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, I have used up 50% wheat, and regularly use 20% oats(quick) and had some bag draining troubles. J.Palmer says Beta Glucanase is the problem, as it is a gum from the grains. He recomends a Beta Glucanase rest http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html and http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html and it helps to stir the mash to break down the gums.
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Post #20 made 12 years ago
by de5m0mike
joshua wrote:Good Day, I have used up 50% wheat, and regularly use 20% oats(quick) and had some bag draining troubles. J.Palmer says Beta Glucanase is the problem, as it is a gum from the grains. He recomends a Beta Glucanase rest http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and it helps to stir the mash to break down the gums.

I think I'm with you on a Beta Glucan rest being preferable to a Protein Rest.
How often are you stirring during the mash? Are you needing to reapply heat during the mash to keep your temps consistent?
Last edited by de5m0mike on 16 Nov 2011, 21:49, edited 10 times in total.
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