jmbingham wrote:iijakii
I pulled my oatmeal stout out of the fermentor last friday tasted good going into the keg,force carbed it, woke up sat tasted great really thin in the body was a little upset :( gave it a little more co2
let it sit till sunday.Took a sample to a friend's house he thought it tasted fine I still thought the body was week.By tuesday evening it was perfect great head,nice body,good carb, best batch yet :D It was my second biab and third batch all together.I think your stout is going to be fine :D

question:
i don't keg yet. only bottles. so i'm curious, how long is your standard grain to brain time? can you actually carb a beer and drink it in 4 days? and is it good? and would it improve with more time?

shibolet wrote:

jmbingham wrote:iijakii
I pulled my oatmeal stout out of the fermentor last friday tasted good going into the keg,force carbed it, woke up sat tasted great really thin in the body was a little upset :( gave it a little more co2
let it sit till sunday.Took a sample to a friend's house he thought it tasted fine I still thought the body was week.By tuesday evening it was perfect great head,nice body,good carb, best batch yet :D It was my second biab and third batch all together.I think your stout is going to be fine :D

question:
i don't keg yet. only bottles. so i'm curious, how long is your standard grain to brain time? can you actually carb a beer and drink it in 4 days? and is it good? and would it improve with more time?

I usaully have a couple on the night I carb it up, it usaully isn't 100% but good enough to have a couple. within a couple of days everything evens out nicely.
I use this method to carbonate Link

shibolet wrote: question:
i don't keg yet. only bottles. so i'm curious, how long is your standard grain to brain time? can you actually carb a beer and drink it in 4 days? and is it good? and would it improve with more time?

Good question- I don't keg so I bottle and brew mostly ESBs which have late hops best enjoyed after just a week to a month, but the maltiness can be a little coarse at the younger age, so after two to three weeks it is pretty darned good. Some styles this won't work with though, it just happens to suit my brewing frequency and consumption!
Minimum grain to brain is still a fortnight, I leave stuff in the fermenter for about 10- 14 days, usually leave it at least 4 or 5 days after terminal gravity is reached before bottling and I have pretty much a weekly routine of one batch made and one bottled, usually over the weekend, it works out fairly well to be honest.
Carbing up bottles on top of my electric hot water system works a treat (low- 20s) in winter, otherwise it is a fair bit slower in the pantry which is cooler (temp in the mid- low teens here ATM).

shibolet wrote:
question:
i don't keg yet. only bottles. so i'm curious, how long is your standard grain to brain time? can you actually carb a beer and drink it in 4 days? and is it good? and would it improve with more time?

I don't think it would be possible with bottles.
The one time I did it (grain to brain in 4 days) was because I had no beer and friends coming over for a BBQ on the weekend.
I brewed on Tuesday, chilled overnight, into fermenter Wednesday @ 24C, it was down to 1014 Friday, kegged, chilled, force carbed Saturday morning and was drinking it lunch time Saturday. It was very green, yet still very drinkable.

To try and replicate this with bottles would be very difficult because the yeast needs time to turn the carbonation sugar to CO2 (generally 2 weeks). If you had a hot box or similar like Ralph and his hot water system, you may have enough carbonation in a week.

Hi Guys, I wanna give this recipe a crack

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum// ... ntry436478

Style: Australian Pale Ale
Recipe: Coopers Clone Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
Est SRM: 8.9 EBC SRM RANGE: 7.9-13.8 EBC
Est IBU: 26.6 IBU IBU RANGE: 25.0-40.0 IBU
Est OG: 1.043 SG OG RANGE: 1.035-1.048 SG
Est FG: 1.006 SG FG RANGE: 1.004-1.006 SG
Est BU:GU: 0.623 Calories: 393 cal/l Est ABV: 4.8 %
EE%: 80.00 % Batch: 23.00 L Boil: 28.19 L BT: 60 Mins
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1 Pkgs Coopers pale Ale Cultured [Starter 1000 mlYeast-Ale

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
2g Calcium Chloride
2g Epsom Salts
3g gypsum.

-------Ingredients for Mashing--------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (4.0 EBC)Grain 93.75 %
0.20 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.4 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
0.03 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (240.0 EBC) Grain 1.25 %

Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg Total Hops: 28.00 oz.
---MASH PROCESS-----------------------------
Pilsner Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
5 min Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C
15 min Protien Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C
45 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C
30 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C

---SPARGE PROCESS-----RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS !!
Drain Mash Tun
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 17.20 L of 78.0 C water

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.035 Est OG: 1.043 SG
Boil Ingredients
Boil Amount Item Type
60 min 28.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops
10 min 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
10 min 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc


My Keggle is a 50ltr
Diameter: 35.5cm
Fermenter size is 30L (only looking to make 20 Litres anyway)
(sorry havent got any previous effiency #'s)

Can someone help me simplify?

Cheers
RL

P.S. Whats with all the 'rests' in this recipe? Do we 'rest' when BIABing ? If so can you please xplain these to me

Cheers!

How you doing RL ,

Heaps of things can be simplified mate so let's do that in this post and later, myself or someone else can get the recipe down to the easier to read BIAB format. Here's what I can see and / or answer on a quick run through.

1. Recipe Specifications - These are all estimates. The key figures to note though are OG (original gravity) of 1.043 and an EE (estimated efficiency into the kettle) of 80%. Things like batch size should be ignored as some brewers use batch to mean how much they get at the end of a boil while others will mean how much they get in their fermenter.

2. Water Chemistry Additions - Ignore all this as the brewer supplying the recipe is not using the same water as you. With a recipe such as this, if your tap water tastes okay then you shouldn't need any additions.

3. Ingredients for Mashing - The author has given percentages which is handy. Because you have given the details of your kettle and fermenter size, I can already see that the quantities in this recipe are going to require hardly any adjustment. (You could even just use the grain and hop weights listed without getting into any major trouble.)

4. Mash Process - You can ignore this as well. The author is step mashing which is unnecessary with the recipe you are brewing. Read this post. Whilst you can step mash easily with BIAB, just do the normal BIAB mash (single infusion mash) at, I would think 66C. I'll explain what a step mash is in a postscript here - very easy with BIAB.

5. Sparge Process - Ignore this as BIAB is a full-volume method of brewing. In other words mash and sparge water is combined.

6. Boil Process - The only thing of relevance here to us is the hop schedule. (See 3 above.)

I just clicked on your link and see the recipe was provided by AndrewQLD who is a very experienced brewer and turns out great beer. I might write to him and ask him why he is step mashing this recipe and whether he thinks it is critical to the result. Often recipes are printed as reports from software programs and unless the brewer deliberatley hits a button, the software will just print their default mash schedule.

I or someone else will convert the weights and volumes for you later mate.

Cheers,
Pat

P.S. Just quickly, step mashing is sometimes done with some recipes, usually pilsners and lagers for a variety of reasons. In very simple terms it is done to "activate" or "wake up" some qualities in a grain. Most grains that we use today have already been "woken up" before we buy them. Some brewers still like to use a step process, even when not necessary. For most recipes, using a step mash is unnecessary but the individual brewer might, with some recipes, find that a step mash works well for their palate just the same as another brewer might prefer a beer fermented at 16 degrees versus 18 degrees.

If you were to do a step mash with BIAB such as the Pilsner Mash in Andrew's recipe, you would simply do exactly the same as you would for a normal BIAB but you would add all the water to your kettle and then heat it to about 37 C and then add your grain. Stir it and let it sit for 5 mins. Then you would apply heat and while stirring (or alternatively lift the bag off the bottom of the kettle using your pulley), raise the temp to 52 C. Once you have hit 52 C, lower the bag or stop stirring and let it sit for 10 minutes. Repeat the process and times for 63 C, 72 C and 78 C. Very easy to BIAB if you have a pulley and very easy to brew traditionally if you have a pump. If you don't have a pulley or a pump it is not much fun .

Thanks for that pat, always look forward to your detailed replies
Simplified very well i reckon!

I had a crack at doing the conversion with the calculator by following your post in response to goldy in the very first couple of posts in this thread, im pretty sure i got it right because as you said in the post above, the BIAB method (for my equipment) requires very little tweaking...anyhow here its

cheers!
RL

hashie wrote:If you had a hot box or similar like Ralph and his hot water system, you may have enough carbonation in a week.

LOL. I live in a f$#@&ng HOT BOX.
It's around 32C outdoors and a steady 28C in my cellar.

They do help indeed Pat, no worries about that!
OK, as per the thread you linked above, here is my effort

OVERVIEW

Style: Australian Pale Ale
Name: Coopers Pale Ale Clone
Yeast: Cultered from Coopers Pale Ale
Original Gravity: 1.043
Total IBU's: 26.6
Colour (EBC): 8.9
Efficiency at End of Boil: 75%
Mash Length (mins): 90
Boil Length (mins): 90
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): 50 L Keggle
Source/Credits: AndrewQLD - AHB Member
Notes/Instructions/Comments:

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 50 L
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 35.5 cm
Water Required (L or gal): 32.43 L
Mash Temperature (C or F): 66 C ?
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal): 23.34 L
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal): 20 L
Brew Length (L or gal): 18.52 L
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 4358 g

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Barrett Burston Ale Malt = 4086 g
Grain 2: Barrett Burston Wheat Malt = 218 g
Grain 3: Bairds Dark Crystal = 54 g

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

Hop 1: Pride of Ringwood - 11.3% AA - 19.6 g at 60 min

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct:
Mineral:
Finings:


let me know what you think
Cheers!

RL

Good on you RL! Top job!

I only got in a while ago so will check the above out more thoroughly tomorrow.

In the meantime, AndrewQLD has written a great reply to a PM I sent him re his step mashing of this recipe. I'll copy it for you below as it is written very well. Hope this keeps you entertained until tomorrow mate ...

Here is the relevant part of his PM...

There is a reason for such a convoluted mash regime for this beer.
The Coopers Pale Ale recipe you linked to is my AG no sugar recipe. The mash regime was set up to allow the greatest attenuation as possible in this beer so that the final gravity will drop to 1.006.

Pilsner Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
5 min Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C
the 35° rest is an acid rest to get the ph of this pale beer to an acceptable level

15 min Protein Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C
is a compromise protein rest, 50° emphasizes the generation of short length proteins and 55° result in more medium chained proteins (good for head retention and body)

45 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C
This rest is to aid in fermentability of the wort producing short chain molecules

30 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C
And this one is to convert the leftover starches into longer chain molecules for mouth feel

10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C

I realise you already know the explanations given above but the aim of this mash profile is to get the most attenuative wort possible without the addition of sugar and it seems to have worked very well for me. I will be honest and tell you that this beer is pretty disappointing if the final gravity is above 1.008 and I struggled for a long time to get the FG to as low as 1.004-1.006, this mash worked.

To avoid the step mash but with similar results I would use the recipe here with the addition of sugar.
Apart from that your post looks good, but I don't BIAB so I am not 100% sure the results would be identical, although I would doubt there would be a big difference.

Good on you Goldy . Great to hear you are enjoying that beer especially on a Friday night! I reckon the enthusiasm you have is going to bring a bit of magic to your beers. Will look forward to tasting that secret ingredient in redlegger's mail swap.

I better have a crack at converting RL's recipe. Might use the same layout we used for your recipe.

Cheers to you Goldy,
PP

MY GOODNESS REDLEGGER!

Mate, what a great job! I was all geared up to start doing all the conversions and explaining everything and you have done it all yourself. Well done mate, it is not easy to get your head around some of this stuff.

Everything looks perfect to me except for maybe where you have total IBU's equalling 26.6. I couldn't see 26.6 anywhere in Andrew's recipe and your figure in The Calculator is coming up as 23.8. (I might have missed something though.)

Are you going to give this recipe a crack or the alternative that Andrew suggested?

You have done a seriously impressive job redlegger.

Cheers mate,
PP

Cheers for the encourgemnt pat

Unfortuntley i brewed today (just finished actually lol) i was going to do it tomorrow....buut.. im impateient! lol and i brewed with my original figures above.

I noticed where i went wrong on the IBU , i didnt put the 26.6 from the original recipe in the correct cell in the spreadsheet (i dont think i put it in at all) hence why the IBU's came out wrong.
After putting in the correct IBU in the 'Original Recipe' cell in the 'HOP BILL' tab it all came out sweet. (or should that be bitter )
Anyhow the corrected figure was only 1.6g out from what i actually brewed so it should be ok...i hope

My OG was 1.046 , not far off the expected OG , but i think this is only because i boiled for an extra 20 minutes (due to the west coast eagles playing well, i just couldnt leave the tele!!! ) and also i let the wort sit for about an hour after the boil waiting for the convection currents to subside before whirpooling . (by the way, the whirpool seemed to work awseome this time!! clear wort wohoo!! i used the method that is linked in the whirlpooling thread)

Cheers!
Andrew

P.S. Check out this wicked floatie in my wort after the boil had finished! Is it break material? Im calling it a UFO for now (Unidentified Floating Object ) geee its getting late lol im goin to bed!
Sorry for the crappy phone pic..

Well done iijakii.

It would be nice if you could stash 1 or 2 bottles away and drink them in 6-12 months time. Just to see how they age.

iijakii - Thanks for the update. Yes there is never enough is there .

redlegger - Mate, that is the spookiest thing I have ever seen in a beer! Does it really look like it does in the pic? UFO is a great description. Great to hear you found the hop discrepancy and that the whirlpool worked a treat. That is beautifully clear wort. Hopefully Pat will get your recipe posted up in the next few days as he has done Goldy's.


PP

PistolPatch wrote:iijakii - Thanks for the update. Yes there is never enough is there .

redlegger - Mate, that is the spookiest thing I have ever seen in a beer! Does it really look like it does in the pic? UFO is a great description. Great to hear you found the hop discrepancy and that the whirlpool worked a treat. That is beautifully clear wort. Hopefully Pat will get your recipe posted up in the next few days as he has done Goldy's.


PP

Hey PP, yep it sure was weird, it was a kidney shaped ball of what looked like break material, it broke up when i started the whirlpool, no idea how it ended up in the shape all clumped together in the first place tho!

One other thing, my effeciency must of been way out as i only have 15L in my fermenter after NCing (i aimed for 20L)
Do you think is a result of the extended boil (approx 110mins) and the time i waited for the convection currents to completely stop before whirlpooling (about an hour) ?
Its the only explanation i can think of

cheers!

Howdy RL. We'll have to do a book, "Classic Brewing Pics," and put your UFO on the front cover . Still scratching my head on that one. Maybe it was the type of kettle finings you used if any???

The apparent low efficiency (mainly low volume at correct OG) could be for a heap of reasons. The longer boil time won't have reduced the volume that much. The resting after whirlpool will not reduce the volume at all if you keep the kettle covered. The gravity should have also increased as the volume decreased.

Is this the first brew you have noticed a problem with? It could be something as simple as a grain weighing error. You might find wizard's thread here worth a read as it mentions at least a few problems with getting an odd reading on a single brew.

One other possibility is that your UFO uses sugar as an energy source??? :D


PP