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Post #1926 made 9 years ago
by JerryCraft
Rick wrote:
JerryCraft wrote:OK I had a run at "The Calculaor" and Biabacus...



Hey Jerry,

It's always best to use the brewers original recipe for the left hand side of sections C and D, and then scale with desired VIF in section B. The values on the right side of C and D would then be what you buy for brew day. You entered the hops section correctly, but halved the malts. You'll notice the IBU's are way off as a result.

I determined the original recipe's VAW was 12.5 gallons (you had in 6.34 gallons? This also threw things off a bit). Everything seems to make sense with 12.5G in VAW. I'll attach my edits for you.
Got it. I halved the grain bill but not the hops. Will pay closer attention next time. The program then halves or scales the 10g batch the recipe presented as well as adjusts all other variables. Nice.
Last edited by JerryCraft on 18 Jul 2014, 01:01, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1927 made 9 years ago
by hoffajd
Thanks for the suggestion to use version 1.3T. I put in the numbers again and I think it all looks pretty good now. My file is below and again the link the the original recipe is http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/h ... op-hammer/. Any further suggestions are appreciated. I am still trying to learn how to use this amazing tool we call the BIABacus.
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Last edited by hoffajd on 18 Jul 2014, 10:43, edited 6 times in total.

Post #1928 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
JerryCraft wrote: Got it. I halved the grain bill...
Yep, no need to do anything like that. The BIABacus does all the thinking/maths for you. When you start doing the thinking and maths, there is a good chance you are heading off track ;).
hoffajd wrote:Thanks for the suggestion to use version 1.3T. I put in the numbers again and I think it all looks pretty good now...
Lots of good stuff/detail/thinking I can see in the file hoffa but, like Jerry, you have tried to do a lot of thinking that the BIABacus does for you.

Your detail in all the latter sections right through to Z is excellent (you can delete yeast nutrient as that is not needed in all-grain brews) so all we need to focus on is Sections C and D and these are actually a lot simpler when we use the left and right hand side of the BIABAcus. Let's take a pic of what you have firstly in...

Section C
2014-07-18_16-58-14.jpg
The original recipe looks like this...
2014-07-18_17-02-21.jpg
You mentioned that you wanted to replace about half the base malt with LME so here is what I have done...
2014-07-18_17-09-18.jpg
See how the left hand side now matched the original recipe? (Also note that the red exclamation mark has moved. When you open the file I have attached below, you will see my change in Section Y).

Before going further, it is important to see the logic and simplicity of the BIABacus system...

Original stuff/ingredients/design goes on the left, substitutions go under Substitutions (if any) then BIABacus looks at other factors and tells you what to buy/use under 'What you will use...'

Section D

I won't do any more pics here as the above covers the left/right logic.

Our first worry is that there are 9 hop additions and the BIABacus only allows for eight. You left the 0 minute Simcoe addition out but there are several ways around this limit of eight. The easiest way in this recipe is to move the dry hop additions into Section F as I have done in the attached file.

The second thing I have done is replaced your weights on the left with the original weights.

The third thing I have done is changed the VAW on the first line of Section D from 19.0 L to to 22.7 L. Re-read Hints last post above regarding this. VAW is the most important volume figure in a recipe when scaling and it is nearly always extremely difficult to find or deduce on other sites or in other software. It's just a bit of luck that we know on this site that the particular author you are copying, when they say 22.7L, they mean VAW not Volume into Fermentor.

One final bit...

It would be better if instead of adding that 3.8 litres to the fermentor, that you added it during the boil as and when you can.

:peace:
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Jul 2014, 17:57, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1929 made 9 years ago
by hoffajd
Thanks Pete for taking the time to look at my recipe and explain your corrections so clearly. I now understand how to use the BIABacus much better and it makes a lot more sense. :idea: :idea: :idea: Also thanks for the tips about yeast nutrient and adding water throughout the boil.

A few more questions 1) is there any reason to use version 1.3K instead of 1.3T? It looks to me that 1.3T is slightly more robust. 2) How can you tell from the recipe on the AHA website that they mean 6.0 gal as the VAW?

Now on to the LHBS and then to brewing!

Post #1930 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
No problem hoffa. 1.3T is better but we haven't put it out as a pre-release because I keep thinking that the final release will be ready any minute but keep getting unexpected delays. Use 1.3T as much as you want.

As for knowing the 6.0 gallons for that recipe, there is actually not enough info in the recipe to deduce it. How I did know is that the authors, Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer actually explain the volumes they use in their recipes in the book Brewing Classic Styles.

In most published recipes on the net, you nearly always have to guess the VAW which is a very poor state of affairs. There's more info on this in the stickied threads of this forum that contain the word 'integrity'. Basically a lot of critical info is missing from mots recipes and often when info is made available, it is undefined.

:peace:
PP
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Post #1931 made 9 years ago
by nicko
Hi guys,

I'm having my first crack at BIABacus myself, using the Sticks & Stones Pale Ale recipe from here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/877- ... nd-stones/ by 'Daemon'.

Firstly I contacted Daemon to ask for a text version of the full recipe, he said he doesn't have one, so I realise this isn't ideal, however using the recipe anyway I'd like to have a crack. Daemon did say he wouldn't include the Munich 1 (100g as the beer didn't require any complexity from the M1) anymore and instead of the 5 minute addition he'd actually dry hop that addition, so although the BIABacus says 5 minutes (it went nuts when I put in zero minutes), that second addition will be dry hopped in the fermenter (should that be along with the yeast, or when the fermentation settles down? I've seen recommendations for both, so stuffs me!), so the predicted IBU of 15.0 will possibly be lower, I want that, I'm aiming for a fairly low bitterness session beer with plenty of aroma and hops flavour, not bitterness so I'll see (and let you all know how it goes).

The mash temp is from notes Daemon had on the AB recipe thread. Looks like a light, fairly low bitterness and very simple Pale Ale but it's got a lot of good reviews, so I'll give it a crack.

Can someone have a look to see if I've done the BIABacus right? If I've missed anything too much out, let me know, thanks! :salute:

Ok feel free to flame away! :whistle:
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Post #1932 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
I'm not quite getting this recipe. Firstly, I can't find a Stone and Wood beer of that name. I can only assume they mean the excellent Pacific Ale but if so, why use Galena hops instead of Galaxy? Also unclear why a 5 minute and ten minute addition would exist. Not really much difference there. Anyway, I will assume they know what they are talking about.

The usual provisos go for this recipe as in critical info is lacking but with a short investigation, it looks pretty easy to tell that by 22 litre batch size, they also mean VAW. (Type 22 L onto the first line of Section D and you will see that the colour and IBU's match up closely with the numbers given in the original recipe.

Okay, here are some corrections...

Section C

1. Just leave the Munich 1 out on the left.

2. No need to type the OG on the left and right hand side of Section B. Just type it on the left.

3. No need to re-type everything on the right, eg BB Ale Malt 6. Only type something on the right if it is different from what is used on the left.

Section D

1. Not sure where you got the idea of 15 IBU's from. Regardless, delete it. Instead on the first line type 22 litres.

2. No need to re-type everything on the right, eg Galaxy Pellet 13.2 10. Only type something on the right if it is different from what is used on the left.

3. Scrub the 5 mins on the left hand side and replace that with 'DH" in teh 'Method' field.

Other

In Section I, you have that the 5 minute addition as being added at Flame-out but it isn't. It will be dry-hopped, so delete all the special instructions.

As for the dry hops, just add them say at five days into fermentation, preferably in a sanitised hop bag.

Everything else is hunky dory.

Have attached file below with corrections.

:peace:
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Jul 2014, 18:00, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1933 made 9 years ago
by nicko
Hi Pat,

Galena = Galaxy as the recipe database didn't have Galaxy in it at the time according to Daemon's brewers notes on the recipe:

"I used raw wheat instead of flaked and the Galena is meant to be Galaxy (not in the recipe DB)."

I'm not sure why they didn't call it an attempted S&W Pacific Ale clone either? I thought S&W must have another brew that this was based on? Sorry, should have done some research before I posted.

I thought I could change the IBUs to what I wanted? Sorry mate, learned a lot from trying the BIABacus tonight.

Good news for you is that's the recipe I'm going to play with for a while so I can test out the different hops I have in the freezer, all of them are APA hops, so I'll give them all a go and let you know how the recipes turn out.

Off to bed with John Palmer (well his book anyway lol).

Thanks again for the help mate, I owe you a lot of beers, hopefully some of them will be tasty too lol.. :lol:
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Post #1934 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
nicko wrote:Thanks again for the help mate, I owe you a lot of beers, hopefully some of them will be tasty too lol.. :lol:
Lol! Don't worry about that.

The only thing I ever want to see here is members becoming a Donor if they feel they are learning and being helped. The time it takes to stop and make the $5 donation is a good indication that the considerable time I and others spend helping other members here is actually appreciated. So do that instead, I reckon ;). (It also sets a good example for newer members.)

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 Jul 2014, 19:36, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1935 made 9 years ago
by nicko
PistolPatch wrote:
nicko wrote:Thanks again for the help mate, I owe you a lot of beers, hopefully some of them will be tasty too lol.. :lol:
Lol! Don't worry about that.

The only thing I ever want to see here is members becoming a Donor if they feel they are learning and being helped. The time it takes to stop and make the $5 donation is a good indication that the considerable time I and others spend helping other members here is actually appreciated. So do that instead, I reckon ;). (It also sets a good example for newer members.)

:peace:
PP
Doneski, I've actually been meaning to, I'll donate more in future too as the advice here and BIABacus are so worth it and I'm really only in my brewing infancy, so scratching the surface of what this site offers. Podcasts are next on my list, have been meaning to listen to them. Thanks Pat and crew for all your help so far.
Last edited by nicko on 24 Jul 2014, 09:06, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1936 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Doneski
:lol:.

Good on you. Hold on, just saw your signature. Wow! Good on you ten times :thumbs:.

I heard you put in ten bucks not five but the site keeps tabs on what you contribute so the extra fiver will be added to your 'account' - it won't get forgotten.

I think the site would love to see everyone contribute five bucks and no one contribute more than the Enthusiast's $25 (or time).

Great stuff Nick :drink:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Jul 2014, 18:33, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1937 made 9 years ago
by nicko
PistolPatch wrote:
Doneski
:lol:.

Good on you. Hold on, just saw your signature. Wow! Good on you ten times :thumbs:.

I heard you put in ten bucks not five but the site keeps tabs on what you contribute so the extra fiver will be added to your 'account' - it won't get forgotten.

I think the site would love to see everyone contribute five bucks and no one contribute more than the Enthusiast's $25 (or time).

Great stuff Nick :drink:.
You're very welcome mate, the extra five is to help you put up with my silly questions/mistakes lol. Summer ale into a keg this weekend (back I to kegs, long story), will let everyone know how it goes.
Last edited by nicko on 24 Jul 2014, 19:47, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1938 made 9 years ago
by JerryCraft
Hi again.
Just reporting back.
Brew day today went pretty well.

The BIAB Kolsch is in the fermenter at 60 degrees.
Used the minerals to correct distilled water from H2O to go.
I followed your recipe as closely as possible.
I used 10 lbs base, 0.5 lbs of the Wheat and 0.5 lbs Vienna.
Full volume into the pot 8.5 gallons at 152 degrees.
Rained in the grain which dropped temp to 150 deg.
Kept it between 148 and 150 for 90 mins. then pulled the bag.
Boiled 90 mins. Magnum hops 19 grams @ 60 min. Whirfloc at 10 min.
Pre boil Gravity 1.036, Post boil 1.049. Immersion chilled, then ice in a plastic tub hose water is 82 degrees! :roll: )
6.4 gallons remained in kettle, 5 .5 gallons into fermenter.
Used the Wyeast Kolsch yeast.
I got some trub in there so I may transfer to secondary after a couple days.

I will be bottle conditioning, so I am not sure how long to keep it in fermenters (primary and secondary) before bottling.
Should I store the bottles at 60 deg. for a couple weeks to avoid esters and such from the mini-ferment which ensues from the priming sugar?

The only problem I had was a LOT of particulate in the kettle. I tried to run it through a piece of the Voile as a filter into the fermenter, but it plugged the tiny holes fairly quickly. SO I think I will just rack to a secondary after a few days. Is this typical for All grain or BIAB in particular?

I have photos :thumbs:
Cheers all
Jerry
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Post #1939 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good stuff Jerry,

With the particulate, it is hard to know without seeing it. That could occur though if your BIAB bag was too coarse etc but I really wouldn't get hung up on it at this stage. If possible, use your BIAB bag as a hop sock as that really helps to get the trub quantity down.

Photos are always great.

Good on you :salute:,
PP
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Post #1940 made 9 years ago
by JerryCraft
PistolPatch wrote:Good stuff Jerry,

With the particulate, it is hard to know without seeing it. That could occur though if your BIAB bag was too coarse etc but I really wouldn't get hung up on it at this stage. If possible, use your BIAB bag as a hop sock as that really helps to get the trub quantity down.
Thanks for that. Good idea. The BIAB bag is very fine. The tiny particulate would not go thru the material, it coated it and plugged up quickly when I tried to use a piece in the funnel as a strainer cloth.

I think I will sew a somewhat smaller bag to use as a hop sac.
Fermentation started about 20 hours after yeast addition. I am fermenting cool, close to 15 degrees, so it may take a bit longer.

Will rack to secondary at 1.011 or there abouts.
Jerry
Last edited by JerryCraft on 26 Jul 2014, 22:24, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1941 made 9 years ago
by BobBrews
Unless your reusing the yeast cake? You don't need a secondary. Trub in the primary is required? It provides nutrients and will drop out after three weeks in primary. Congratulations on a good brew! :clap:
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #1942 made 9 years ago
by nicko
JerryCraft wrote:
PistolPatch wrote:Good stuff Jerry,

With the particulate, it is hard to know without seeing it. That could occur though if your BIAB bag was too coarse etc but I really wouldn't get hung up on it at this stage. If possible, use your BIAB bag as a hop sock as that really helps to get the trub quantity down.
Thanks for that. Good idea. The BIAB bag is very fine. The tiny particulate would not go thru the material, it coated it and plugged up quickly when I tried to use a piece in the funnel as a strainer cloth.

I think I will sew a somewhat smaller bag to use as a hop sac.
Fermentation started about 20 hours after yeast addition. I am fermenting cool, close to 15 degrees, so it may take a bit longer.

Will rack to secondary at 1.011 or there abouts.
Jerry
You can get a small synthetic paint strainer bag from your local hardware store, I got three for a few bucks the other day, not my idea, someone somewhere posted it (thanks). They are about perfect size for hops, I'm going to tie them to the kettle handle and wash just like the BIAB bag when done, easy peasy!

Sounds like a nice brew, well done.
Last edited by nicko on 27 Jul 2014, 21:01, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1944 made 9 years ago
by JerryCraft
PistolPatch wrote:Good stuff Jerry,

With the particulate, it is hard to know without seeing it. That could occur though if your BIAB bag was too coarse etc but I really wouldn't get hung up on it at this stage. If possible, use your BIAB bag as a hop sock as that really helps to get the trub quantity down.

Photos are always great.

Good on you :salute:,
PP
Now 10 days in primary, the fermentation is starting to slow a bit. The krausen foamy head is still about 6 cm thick on top. Recipe source recommended at least 14 days in primary, then rack to secondary if SG is 1.011 or lower. He usually chills to 34 F degrees, and uses gelatin to drop majority of suspended yeast after three weeks at 34.

For anyone who missed my other post, there are pictures here -> http://www.upcrafts.com/brewing/BIABDAY1.cfm
Jerry
Last edited by JerryCraft on 06 Aug 2014, 00:26, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1945 made 9 years ago
by gregbyday
Hi all,

Many many thanks for all the work that has been put into this.

This is my 3rd BIAB, been getting the guy at the Home Brew Shop to do recipes. Have not done a good one yet. So I am hoping that BIABrewer can help me do some good brews before I give up and go the Fresh Wort again.

I have a 40litre crown urn.

I am planning on doing Graham Wheelers Ringwood Thumper Ale. Before I order the grain I would greatly apreciate some feedback with this file.

Regards
Greg

Just Noticed a mistake.

Using Graham Wheelers recipe

VFO = VAW

19L = 18.27
23L = 22.11
25L = 24.04

(Fixed File)
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Last edited by gregbyday on 07 Aug 2014, 10:22, edited 6 times in total.

Post #1946 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Sorry greybyday that you haven't received an answer as yet. Very occasionally a post gets missed in this thread :sad:. Yeasty and mallyt havbe a good handle on GW's recipes so I'll send them a note to see if they can check things over for you quickly.

Before they do, here are some quick notes/questions/things to do...

PR1.3 is quite out of date. Use PR1.3K at a minimum, or better still PR1.3T - see post 1928 above.

You have a 40 litre urn, so why is the kettle capacity in Section B showing 51.8 L? You need to do internal measurements - check that ;).

Everything else is really nicely done greg :thumbs:.
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Post #1948 made 9 years ago
by cwier60
PistolPatch wrote:Use PR1.3K at a minimum, or better still PR1.3T - see post 1928 above.
From post 1928:
PistolPatch wrote:You mentioned that you wanted to replace about half the base malt with LME so here is what I have done...
2014-07-18_17-09-18.jpg
See how the left hand side now matched the original recipe? (Also note that the red exclamation mark has moved. When you open the file I have attached below, you will see my change in Section Y).
PP, I see in the Biabacus file you attached to post 1928 that you adjusted the FGDB for the LME to 100%, but didn't address the corn sugar. Wouldn't you also adjust that to 100% under The Original Fermentable Bill in section Y? I'm asking because I'm brewing a Saison this weekend that uses cane sugar, so I want to be sure I handle it correctly using PR1.3T. Actually, it looks like this was recently addressed here.
Last edited by cwier60 on 08 Aug 2014, 22:44, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1949 made 9 years ago
by Hints
You are correct cwier. Corn sugar should also have been adjusted.

[Please note that Hints does not reply to direct questions.]
Last edited by Hints on 08 Aug 2014, 23:01, edited 6 times in total.

Post #1950 made 9 years ago
by mally
gregbyday -

I know this will come too late as you have already got the grain (and probably fermenting the wort now)!
Those kettle dimensions make me think your pot is quite tall & thin, is this so?

Your BIABacus file looks good, apart from the hop bill is very slightly out based on the info I have. Plus you have an old BIABacus version there.
I will mention it just in case it isnt fully clear, but I guess you already know the left hand side of section C & D are for the original recipe. The right hand side is for what you will use.

Graham Wheelers used Challenger @ 7.6%AA, & Goldings @ 5.7%AA. Those go in the left, if your hops have a different AA% then just enter that value on the right (no need to type the names etc. if they are the same).

I have attached a BIABacus version (corrected) & it is 1.3T too. It seems you will need less grain than originally thought, and a little extra hops but overall I don't think you would be disappointed with what you will end up with.
If any of the moderators get a chance to look at this file I have noticed a few #DIV errors so either I have missed an entry somewhere or this file is corrupted. Either way gregbyday, just use it to look at the differences between the files for now. :luck:
BIABacus PR1.3T - Ringwood Old Thumper (GREGBYDAY) .xls
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Last edited by mally on 09 Aug 2014, 19:47, edited 6 times in total.
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