Oatmeal Stout- Feedback?

I'm sure I must be missing something here... The recipe is from Jamil and John's "Brewing Classic Styles"

Only one hop addition.. should it be at 60 min if I use no-chill? I have another post asking about hop additions using no-chill. BB answered it, I think. I still have hop addition/timing questions on no-chill. Also, question about not being to fill the container. I seem to only be able to find a 5 gallon no-chill container and I'm going to be putting 2.5 gallons in it. That leaves a lot of headspace. This might not be a problem if I pitch the yeast in, say, 1-2 days?????

Slight deviation from recipe. I spoke with Jamil Z. regarding grain. I used ~45% 2-row and ~55% Meris Otter in my recipe. The recipe in the book calls for 100% English Pale. He suggest that EP is probably the same as my MO. Either way, I'll probably leave the recipe as is regarding those two malts.. unless someone suggests a reason to change.. I have a lot of 2-row to start using

I did add a touch of chalk and non-iodized salt per Byron Burch's book, Brewing Quality Beers.

Any other thoughts or criticism's on what I've done with the spreadsheet.. I'm still VERY green using it

Oh yes.. one final question. I know (?) I'm boiling off 1 gallon per hour. How do I add this to the spreadsheet? The spreadsheet is showing currently that I'm going to boil off 1.2 gallons (IF evaporation is Sect K is boil off)

Thanks for input, Bill

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Hey there Bill ,

Okay a few spreadsheet issues first ...

- The site has asked theat pre-release BIABaci only get published in a few threads but they don't enforce it. REad the top of the spreadsheet though!
- Up there it says 'Check for latest versions'. PR1.3 is not the latest version. It makes answering some questions really hard .
- Up the tip it says, "Always save as an .xls file". YOur sheet is now unprotected so if you accidentally blank out one of the hundreds of hidden cells, your numbers will be incorrect. (In fact, your file is corrupt now. I can't actually enter any data).
- Try and name the file with the existing convention which has the BIABacus spreadsheet version at the beginning of the filename etc,

...

Don't worry about adjusting for no-chill hops. The thread that Dave mentioned above is Chilling Myths - Asking the right questions. Read and understand it thoroughly. Bump the topic if needs be. Some programs have now added adjustments for no-chill or whirlpool hops but the adjustments are incorrect as they do not consider what is written in that thread.

...

Adjusting BCS recipes - see the bottom of this post. In other words, at the top of Section D, deleter the IBU's you have Instead type 20.19 L into the top line of Section D. Read the post for explanation.

...

You shouldn't be no-chilling. Your batch size is so small that you can chill in the laundry or kitchen sink. Why risk contamination and create another container to clean Bill unless you want to store the wort for months as I do? You are creating a lot of extra work for no reason. Just leave ti chill overnight in the kettle if you don't want to chill in the sink. Or if you have a plastic fermentor, pour it into that and pitch the next day.

In other words, in your situation, why no-chill???

...

I don't know who Byron Burch is but giving advice like that is incorrect. He has no idea what your water is like so telling you to add anything is just plain wrong.

...

Yeast nutrient is not needed in all-grain beers.

...

Leave your boil-off alone for now. You want to be in a situation where you need to dilute at the end of the boil rather than ending up with too weak a wort. And, as Jack said, evaporation varies on every brew day.

I reckon that's it mate . Stop reading stuff from other sources!!!


PP

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Thanks for that info, PP.. The links etc will be helpful as will the specific notes.. I may have questions about the whats and the whys If I don't find them in the links regarding the spreadsheet. The first question I need to understand from your reply is.. where did you get the 20.19L to put on the top line of Sect. D? I know the recipe is for 5G and their pre-boil volume is 7G. There is a combo utilization of water in grain absorption as well as boil off. So, I need to know how to come up with the number you put in that cell. Is that just a "standard" number for trub etc for a 5G batch?

Regarding no-chill. You are correct. I don't need to no-chill such a small volume. I was just wanting to experiment.. i.e., get on board with the program

Regarding no-chill and hops additions. In another post, I asked about this as well. I tried a no-chill last week and the resulting wort for my APA, which I have brewed as a BIAB a few times in the past, turned out VERY bitter.. as if all the hop additions were bettering additions. Probably because with no-chill the hop residue was kept so hot so long??? That's my only answer for why that could have happened.. as I think I have that recipe down pretty well.

Oh, Byron Burch. He's a very well known and highly respected old time brewer who is sometimes considered the father of homebrewing and is recognized as an authority by even the likes of the writers of BCS. The additions Byron makes in his book assume using RO water. While I'm not using RO water, a touch of salt and chalk add to the flavor and mouthfeel of stouts.. In my opinion. That's the only reason I'm making those additions.

Also, thanks for the advice on boil off. I see the point of adding more sterile water at the end rather than boiling longer to reduce the volume.. thereby mucking with the ending IBU's.

Well, back to the drawing board.

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Forgot to ask... You mentioned I used the incorrect t spreadsheet. You mentioned this once before. I'm a dummy.. I guess I don't know the what and where to find it.

Also, if I create a proper recipe in a proper version.. Do I have to update with the latest version each time?

I know.. Idiot.. But I'm still finding my way around

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Hi HB,

The first full release will be coming out soon (so I would hold off till then, and transfer your brew sheets over).

Not sure when the announcement will be, but once it is out, I think it will be a solid release for quite a while.

I know from one of the other threads that a recipe DB is going to be worked on using it, so from a personal point of view, I am looking forward to using it, and transferring my own recipes over

I am sure one of the other gurus will be on later to give you the link of the latest version if you cannot wait

I cannot open your file on my iPad to see which version you are using, but here is a link to PR1.3I

Which has been approved

download/file.php?id=1940 [ADMIN NOTE: See Post #10 for PR 1.3K]

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Thanks Yetti..

Enclosed is the file in Excel.. hope it comes across as it should

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EDIT: Re your post above Bill. Look at the picture in the link I already gave above, the one where it has a BeerSmith picture of recipes showing predictions using Rager, Garretz and Tinseth. It makes a massive difference!

Glad to see you got the file stuff sorted Bill

HbgBill wrote:Regarding no-chill. You are correct. I don't need to no-chill such a small volume. I was just wanting to experiment.. i.e., get on board with the program

It's good to experiment but the only program here is to be sensible with your brewing practices. No-chill is not a sensible practice in many situations. It has its place but you are far better starting from a place of control (fast chilling).

HbgBill wrote:Regarding no-chill and hops additions. I tried a no-chill last week and the resulting wort for my APA, which I have brewed as a BIAB a few times in the past, turned out VERY bitter.. as if all the hop additions were bettering additions. Probably because with no-chill the hop residue was kept so hot so long???

Probably not. I have dones side by sides on a hop bill similiar to yours and in triangular tastings by eight or so brewers, there were no matching conclusions. You can't determine anything from one batch though home brewers love to. Don't fall into that trap. I thought I had NRB's All Amarillo American Pale Ale nailed. My last two bathes though were crap. It's only luck that I have brewed it twenty times or more and could definitely know that the hops were the problem.[/quote]

HbgBill wrote: Oh, Byron Burch. He's a very well known and highly respected old time brewer who is sometimes considered the father of homebrewing and is recognized as an authority by even the likes of the writers of BCS. The additions Byron makes in his book assume using RO water. While I'm not using RO water, a touch of salt and chalk add to the flavor and mouthfeel of stouts. In my opinion. That's the only reason I'm making those additions.

Did a Google and found a few references and two books, one of which I was able to look inside. Couldn't find anything on the RO water but if you are sure he mentioned it then good. From the look inside, there was the usual ambiguity on volumes (see pic below) but, Bill, if you can tell me that on page such and such he defines the RO water thing and his volumes and what IBU estimate he is using, then I will try and get a copy although in Oz that will be hard.


PP

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Bill, my last post here of the day. Many thanks for your great PM . Much appreciated and I'll write back to that over the weekend.

Really busy here atm but never be worried about me if you see me writing something in a frustrated manner. It'll be me writing after a very long day and probably drunk - lol! In reality, any frustration you see from me is really me being so annoyed at how low the quality of info is out there in the general brewing world and how slow we are here at putting quality info into a format that is easy to access and understand.

We are getting there though and I really appreciate your patience and understanding Bill. Once again, thanks for the really nice PM.


PP

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Brewed the McQuakers Oatmeal Stout today. I think I hit my numbers fairly well. Hope someone will go over the .xls spreadsheet attached... IF I SAVED IT CORRECTLY..

So, it brings up a question(s). In Sect L. I think I estimated my volumes fairly correctly for VFO and VIF.. but the KFL has me stumped.. there is NO way I had 2/3's of a liter of wort/hops flowers left in the kettle. Everything else seems, at the moment to be correct.

I tasted the wort and it is more bitter/astringent(?) than I had hoped for. It may tame a lot during fermentation and conditioning. However, I think it was from too much Black Roasted Barley.

I made notes of my pH readings at various times of the mash. I didn't make any adjustments.. but, they jumped from 5.4 to 5.5 to 5.7.. 5.7 is a big jump.

Let me know if there are any glaring errors that I need to correct based on my newbieness with the spreadsheet.

Thanks

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Ok.. Back again looking for help....
Bottled my McQuakers Oatmeal Stout today. The bitterness disappeared in the fermentation. It tastes awesome.. I hope it gets better with aging. It didn't ferment down as far as I had hoped.. but, it was truly finished. I bottled it today with the help of my sweetie... her first time capping. Yee Haw.

Questions I have are:

1. I see in Section Q there is some verbiage about priming. However, I don't see where to input the amount of sugar I actually used. I primed to 2.2 volumes using 1.4 oz (40gms) of corn sugar.

2. I was also hoping to see what I need to do to get the information in Section R to fill out. While I used a different calculator to show me that a 12 oz bottle should be 173 calories.. I'd like to see how it shows up in BIABacus.

3. In Section N I'm confused. I don't understand "Wort Lost From Fermenter" in a Pre-Pitching scenerio. I would assume that everything from the BK is going into the fermenter. I'm guessing that the word "Lost" being in quotes has something to do with it. I didn't find the answer anywhere.. although I'm sure it's staring me in the face.

So, any help here would be greatly appreciated

I'm going to love seeing this spreadsheet fill out and also to add my tasting notes after the beer has conditioned for about ten weeks.. or when I return from my Pacific Northwest RV'ing trip. Oregon breweries, some Washington breweries and a number of breweries in/around Boise, ID

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Hi HbgBill,

Hopefully these answers will cover the questions,

1. I see in Section Q there is some verbiage about priming. However, I don't see where to input the amount of sugar I actually used. I primed to 2.2 volumes using 1.4 oz (40gms) of corn sugar.

Fill in the Box marked Secondary Volume. This is the amount of beer you have to go into bottles or kegs. In your case i filled in 8.46L as i didnt know what losses you had from fermentation. This should give you the amount of priming sugar required.

2. I was also hoping to see what I need to do to get the information in Section R to fill out. While I used a different calculator to show me that a 12 oz bottle should be 173 calories.. I'd like to see how it shows up in BIABacus.

Here you fill in the Bottle Volume Box. 12 oz is around 355ml so thats whats ive put in there. Came up with 172 calories. Pretty Close

3. In Section N I'm confused. I don't understand "Wort Lost From Fermenter" in a Pre-Pitching scenerio. I would assume that everything from the BK is going into the fermenter. I'm guessing that the word "Lost" being in quotes has something to do with it. I didn't find the answer anywhere.. although I'm sure it's staring me in the face.

Ok this one is to allow for any losses when transferring to the fermenter. In your case it will be zero. In other cases for people who no chill it maybe a small (hopefully only small anyway) spillage while transfering from a no chill cube to the fermenter. In my case its usually carrying a 23L fermenter from the back yard to the brew fridge and the dog walking in front of me trying to trip me up because thats funny apparently.

BIABacusPR1.3K-McQuakersOatmealStout2Gal_1_DD02Jun (1).xls

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Thanks Dave.. I think I understand another portion of this piece of art.. BIABacus

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One further question on Sect Q... Dave, thanks for the answers to Secondary Volume. Now, I need to understand the difference between Secondary Volume and Volume into Keg. In this last iteration, I have (so far) used NO bottles.. I put some priming sugar into the ket and racked all my beer into it.. purged the keg with CO2.. and there it sits for about 10+ days. I will then likely use my beer gun and transfer some beer into either a growler or into some 12 and/or 22 oz bottles to take to an event.

That said, Is there a time when I might use BOTH Secondary Volume and Volume into Keg? IOW, if I prime my keg with corn sugar solution and rack the beer as I did today.. and then have planned that I will fill 12 ea 12 oz bottles.. would that fit into the scenario of using both SV and VIK?

I will post the final BIABacus in about 2 weeks.. once the keg is fully carbed (the added corn sugar has been consumed ) I will then take a gravity reading of my final product before consuming... Now on to the last batch.. it's 5 o'clock somewhere

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Hey Bill ,

There are many different ways and roads from getting from flame-out to packaging. There are so many differences between brewer's equipment and resources and desired outcomes.

For example...

Most keggers would not add sugar to the keg (natural priming) but you are and that is fine - it's just like priming one big bottle but...

Many bottlers will use a secondary (and plenty of keggers as well) to enable getting rid of the majority of trub. Possibly, if natural priming a keg, you should consider this?

I used a secondary fermentor on my last two brews, then crash-chilled and then kegged and force-carbonated. I haven't done the secondary bit for a while but I think the lack of it might be throwing in a flavour that I am sensitive to.

...

I think the above might make your question in paragraph 2 above mute but even I'm not sure... Watch abbreviations that are not listed in the Clear Brewing Terminology thread as what is clear to you might not be clear to another brewer. I don't know what IOW means and am not going to spend time Googling it. I'm also guessing by SV you mean secondary vessel which I assume means secondary fermentor but I don't know. Also try and add in metric equivalents so as metric users will be more encouraged to answer your questions. A bit more detail in a post can save a heap of time and get more responses on this site .

Go Bill and no posting after five ,
PP

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