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Over pitching - under pitching

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by hashie
As the title suggests, this thread is about over pitching or under pitching yeast.

There is any amount of literature available on the subject and it all sounds bad. In fact, if you believe everything you read, we all need fancy microscopes so that we can count the number of live yeast cells prior to pitching!

Now, I've been brewing for a lot of years. I am no expert and to others, my beer may be crap. But I have both over pitched and under pitched and I have never had any undesirable flavours or effects on my beers.

I have put a fresh wort on to a yeast cake from a previous beer and when the second beer finished, I put a third on to the now expanded yeast cake. I think the most beers I have made from 1 yeast cake was 5. If the 5th beer wasn't seriously over pitched, I'll go he!

As a general rule, I don't make starters. I try and keep 50mls (or so) of yeast from a previous brew in a jar in the fridge and this goes directly into the next brew when it's ready. On the rare occasion that I don't have a jar of yeast ready to go, I'll use the yeast in the bottom of a stubbie. I simply drink the beer, put some wort into the bottle, give it a swirl and pitch into the 25.5 litres of wort, job done.

I am not trying to say that all of the literature is wrong, but I have both over and under pitched as demonstrated, with no ill effects. If anyone can give me first hand experience of me being wrong I would be very grateful.

I get annoyed when advice is given to new brewers about, do this, do that, you must have 10 million cells and not 1 more/less etc. Sure under pitching will result in a slower ferment and over pitching will be quick, but it will still be beer.

Don't even get me started on Autolysis!
Last edited by hashie on 16 Sep 2011, 06:30, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by wizard78
Interesting topic hashie. I went through these thought the other week when I did my NuptiAle (wedding brew). When I plugged my recipe into BS2 it told me I needed about 1.5 packet of us05. I stressed about it for a bit, tried to do some research, found way to many conflicting arguments and then I just added the one packet like I always do.
I think there is far to much of "you have to do this" or "you cant do that" around, and I think people think if major breweries do it, it must be the way we have to do it too. However I make beer because the beer the major brewing companies are making just doesn't cut it for me any more, so why would I try and replicate their procedures.
Sorry for the rant.
BTW hashie your beer does taste good, that schwartzbier you sent me (the one that leaked in the post :lol: ) was a very nice drop. I ended up putting it in the cupboard for a few weeks, then into the fridge for a couple of weeks and low and behold it was carbed and tasted great.

Cheers :drink:
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Thanks for your reply Wiz and for your favourable tasting of my beer :)

I was worried that my OP was a bit of a rant.

There are a lot of things we can and do, do as home brewers that the big boys don't. Most of us are not industrial chemists or professional Zymurgists. Given the scale that we brew at (mostly 23 litres - 5 gallons) the big boys rules don't apply.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by 2trout
As a newer brewer, I DO get caught into the overly technical aspects of what others say has to be done this way or that way... Its great to hear from others like Hasie and others who really do relax and just brew!
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Post #5 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
hashie wrote:On the rare occasion that I don't have a jar of yeast ready to go, I'll use the yeast in the bottom of a stubbie. I simply drink the beer, put some wort into the bottle, give it a swirl and pitch into the 25.5 litres of wort, job done.
Pure genius this bit, I don't know why it didn't occur to me before :idiot:

I've researched saving yeast and have been putting off doing it "properly" due to sanitation worries and being lazy. When in reality all I need to do is make sure I bottle some of the beer in stubbies, allow it to secondary ferment then save in the fridge. When needed remove from fridge do a quick quality check :drink: and make a starter with the dregs (or not bother like hashie :cool: ).

I've bulked yeast up from commercial beers but I've never thought to do it from my own brews :headhit: :headhit:

How long do you think it will stay viable ?

Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 16 Sep 2011, 16:11, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Yeasty wrote:

How long do you think it will stay viable ?

Yeasty
Good on you Yeasty, I figure so long as the beer is good, the yeast is good. Has worked that way for me to date :)
Last edited by hashie on 17 Sep 2011, 05:21, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #7 made 14 years ago
by mordantly
my psp has a borked screen, so i skimmed thebest i covld. i try to under vs over pitch given the choice. the yeasties self~regulate reproduction as suiting the o2 level and available sugars. they have yet to over populate any fermentation that i know of. now if you pitch enough for 20gal into 5, you might have issues. Jamil Z and others wouldn't talk about it unless the (bad ) results occur in the wild. wd have only understood fermentations as we know it for a hundred-ish years......
MoRdAnTlY [Mr. Wolf '91 - '11]

Post #9 made 14 years ago
by stux
I suspect proper aeration is actually more important
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #10 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Great thread as usual Hashie :salute:

The conflicting advice can drive you mad :). stuz just mentioned aeration and about a month ago, I read something by a commercial brewer who doesn't aerate his wort if he uses dry yeast. Can't find where I read it but I certainly wouldn't follow that advice unless brewing a low alcohol beer.

I've had no worries re-using US-56 for up to a year by harvesting the yeast cake. However, this is s single strain of yeast. Other yeasts are made up of several strains (can't remember the proper names for these) so after a few re-uses, one strain overtakes the other and can affect the flavour.

As for pitching rates, I have never got hung up on these and haven't run into problems (yet) even with lagers. I'd imagine in a smack-pack , the number of viable cells would alter dramatically depending on the age of the pack so in most cases it would be hard to know where you stood anyway :P.

PP
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
by stux
I've recently had a devil of a time with wild yeasts so have gotten paranoid with yeast sanitation and health. Early results seem good :)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12
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