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GM's Journey To Electric BIAB

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
This will be my first ever brew, but I think I'd like to just use kit ingredients and BIAB it, using either or both my SVS (sous vide supreme), Sansaire, and/or water from an Zojirushi electric water dispenser (4L) + Hario pour-over (coffee) kettle ...

As for related analog stuff, I have a 23 qt SS double boiler that I bought some time back for making cheese, and I have a 8 qt SS pot, and I have a 7 qt CI french oven ... and I have a SS strainer etc ...

I have some muslin bags, two gal jug fermenter's, w/ airlocks, an auto siphon, some pH5.2, an H meter, a set of bottles, caps, and a capper ...

I also have, from some soda experiments in the past, a CO2 tank w/ regulator, and a couple of those carbonator caps (metal works much better than plastic) for 2L PET bottles ...

Next week I'll have a 3rd gal jug fermenter, and a 8 qt SS pot, StarSan, some of those whirf tablets, fermcap, biofine, a thief, and a 4th and 5th kit ...
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I feel like I could mash-in to a prev cleaned and sanitized sous vide supreme w/ 160F water in a muslin bag, changing target temp to 152F upon introducing the grain mixture for 60-90 mins, stirring the water a bit, then lifting out the bag and spinning/swinging it a bit, and placing it in a strainer over an 8 qt SS pot on the stove, and then sparging additional water from the Zoji set at 174F, by way of the Hario kettle I use for pour over coffee, over the bag of grains, until I have a gallon plus (extra to evap) in the pot for the boil ...

I have 4 bags of ice in coolers, here, now ...

I figured after 60 min boil, I'd put the pot in the sink w/ ice-water, bring it down low 65F, and then auto-siphon it into a fermenter jug w/ a blow-off tube ...

I will have a cool bag, but not until mid-week, so for this batch I'd have to just set the fermenter in a cooler w/ a frozen 1L of water to get under my house temp of 72-74F ...

I have three devices which can provide temp-controlled water, a host of temp probes from bbq, and so I really think I can just dial it in and give it hell the first time BIAB ...

Am I crazy? ...

I mean, I'm not afraid of modifying my 23 qt SS double boiler to have some kit, in fact, I have the step-cutting bits leftover from modifying my Weber kettles ...
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 29 Mar 2015, 04:15, edited 2 times in total.

Post #3 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
[I started to do a pictorial on this answer but it will require quite a few hours to write and draw so words only for now sorry.]

Hi there Grant and welcome to the forum :salute:,

I just had a read of your post in the "My First Post", thread which were a great help. Nice job!

Here's a few thoughts...

Keeping the Equipment and the Process Simple and of High Quality.

Pure BIAB is a method of producing 'sweet liquor' (see Clear brewing Terminology) using only a single vessel, a single heat source and a nylon bag. Also, mashing (soaking) and sparging (rinsing) the grain occur in a single process. There are no penalties/downsides to this method with the exceptions explained in 1 below. In fact, as soon as you step away from this model, penalties and downsides are immediately introduced in the form of extra equipment, labour and processes.

In amy system, single vessel (pure BIAB) or multi-vessel (e/g/ traditional brewing), the limiting factor to the amount of sweet liquor that can be produced is the boil vessel. In other words, the sweet liquor you produce must be able to fit comfortably into the kettle. There are three basic ways of doing this:-

1. Pure BIAB (Single Vessel - Single Heat Source - Single Water Addition - Single Tier - One Bag) - Ensure that your kettle is large enough to hold all your water and your grain. This requires a kettle about 20% larger in volume than the methods below. (Alternatively you can formulate your recipe to produce a Volume into Fermentor about 20% lower than the methods below.)

2. Traditional Brewing (Three Vessel - Three Heat Source/Insulation - Three Water Addition - Three Tier/Pump - No Bag) - Obviously a lot more equipment, transfers, labour etc. (If a normal mash tun is used, extra grain will be required to make up for the natural inefficiencies of a traditional tun.)

3. Pure BIAB with a Single Full Volume Variation (Single Vessel - Single Heat Source - Two Water Additions - Single Tier - One Bag) - The kettle is topped up before the boil. Like number 2, this method also requires a little more grain but for different reasons - basically, the grain sees a little less water than 1 or 2 above.

Read and re-read the above and/or ask questions until it is crystal clear that 1 and 3 above are the most sensible options.

...

An All-Grain Kit (e.g. Brooklyn Brew Shop) or Not?

This site is all about giving people the best knowledge, education and information so I am going to say a few things here. A kit can be convenient but it also can be a little misleading. Let's pretend that brewing a beer is a bit like driving a car. If I give you five gallons of fuel, how far you will travel on a straight, flat road will depend on what car you are driving. In other words, the kit makes you think that you will get the same distance (original gravity) no matter what car (equipment) you use.

So, first thing you should not expect from a kit is to achieve the same OG as the kit specifies.

Furthermore, just like a car engine relies on a mixture of fuel and air, a brew relies on a mixture of grain and hops. Some engines will require more or less grain and air to produce the same end result (the beer) but not in the same proportion. A kit does not cover this.

...

Of course, the major issue is whether the ingredients that come with the kit can be handled by your kettle. I can't remember if Brooklyn Brew Shop does different size kits?

...

My worries above are mainly that a kit, like a lot of software and forums, can set you on a path of incorrect knowledge. If you understand the limitations then all is good.

...

A Few Quick Things

You really need to simplify everything. Making beer is very simple, especially now thanks to BIAB. You should not be looking at adding any equipment. You should be looking at reducing it. (Plenty of stories here about reducing equipment). Delay your brew if possible until next weekend. Grab a couple of beers and study the BIABacus and ask questions here. You'll save hours, money and find everything a lot more interesting and enjoyable.

So, to start, tell us...

1. What beer style you would like to make first?
2. What is the depth and width of your double boiler?
3. How big is your fermentor?

Try and put both metric and US measurements. I know a quart is about a litre but providing both measurements make it excellent for everyone!

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 Mar 2015, 18:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm going to provide a short answer now, and a longer answer later on (tomorrow?) ...

TL;DR - I didn't end up brewing.

I ended up frustrated by the unknowns of the kit, and instead just decided to have a practice run sanitizing stuff and moving water around w/ a siphon and tubing etc. Without knowing the composition of the grain and/or yeast, I couldn't find out what fermentation temperature I'd need/want, and without knowing what the sanitizer was, it was somewhat ambiguous if it was rinse/dry, no rinse, etc.

That said, I still need to cook up the kits, because they aren't really valuable for anything else, and can't be parceled out into anything usable in the future. I'll maintain guarded expectations and just run through them for the sake of initial "brewing experience" ...

I'll be poking around the BIABacus this week. I got confused because I found BIABacus on github (Rails app) before I found the spreadsheet!

Post #5 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Give us as much info/details as you have or can gather on the kit and we'll get something sensible sorted out for you GM ;).

I remember someone PM'ing me back then on the Github thing but they were just pottering away at it for there own personal use. We probably should 'git' them to change the name :) . (Can someone contact him?)
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Which way to go to BIAB this Brooklyn Brew Shop kit?

Post #6 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
I didn't yet, but I will send a pull request w/ a note in the README to differentiate the project from the spreadsheet time permitting ...
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~1/2 tsp pH fixer into 4L Fiji (have to look into water requirements still, but from my gardening I know it's 8.5+) ...
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We moved 1.5L/quarts from the sparge volume to the mash volume because we could only dispense 3.75L from the Zojirushi ...
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Boiled tap water, let it come down to 175F, re-boiled it, and let come down once more to try to shed the chlorine ...
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The Hario kettle puts out 170-171F water w/ 175F input, and I treated them the same way I make pour-over coffee ...

And I recirculated the wort back through each half of the grains (too small strainer), and then I had to do it fully one more time because I overflowed some grain - quite unfortunately ...
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My first sweet liquor =)
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 31 Mar 2015, 15:26, edited 1 time in total.

Which way to go to BIAB this Brooklyn Brew Shop kit?

Post #7 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
first boil ...
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a bit reduced, 3/4L somehow - more water taken out w/ grain perhaps for being moved from sparge to mash? ...
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It chilled further faster than I thought, so it was like 57-58F when I pitched the yeast packet (dry) ...
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Worst yet, The frozen 2L of water I put in the cooler w/ it overnight, meant waking up to 57F wort, and no bubbles ...

On the plus, the OG I took today since the thief came, is probably more accurate from the lack of overnight action ...
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I get a temp adjusted OG of 1047, w/ a target of being 6.5%, so I'm like .25-.5% off target ABZv, I think ...

I warmed it up this afternoon, and it's going now ...
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The time of year will put the house around 68-71F tonight, so I'll give it an ice pack for an hour before bed, and then remove it and just leave the jug in the cooler overnight ...

I'm going to try to BIAB the kit contents for the next kit brew (might as well use them up) ... oh, and use a hop bag, too ...

Is there a resource or pinned thread around where I can learn what I'm looking for in terms of water? ...

Thanks for any input!
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 31 Mar 2015, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.

Post #8 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
I'll have to figure out why it reverses the order of the pictures when using Tapatalk ...

It's LIFO instead of FIFO ...

Weirdness ;)

You have to read the text top to bottom, and look at the pictures bottom to top for everything I've posted thus far to make sense (sorry) ...

Post #9 made 9 years ago
by Rick
Suvee, Le Creuset? Heck, I would have brewed this for you, if you invite me over for dinner. Anyone with those items likely knows how to cook very well.

:D
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Which way to go to BIAB this Brooklyn Brew Shop kit?

Post #11 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
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BBS Grapefruit Honey Ale ...

Planning to make my own recipes using BIAB, but have some kits to run through first ...

I'm a future BIAB'r ...
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 09 Apr 2015, 09:23, edited 1 time in total.

Post #12 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Very good stuff Grant! I hope all went smoothly for you and will look forward to hearing your tasting notes :thumbs:.

Make sure not to rely on just the one thermometer, especially the infra-red one as it can be a bit dodgy on certain surfaces.
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Which way to go to BIAB this Brooklyn Brew Shop kit?

Post #13 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
I'm at the point where I buy into BIAB, but it's something I'm planning to use for 2-2.5 gallon batches, using a 20 qt SS pot that I already have ...

Can someone point me to the thread here that's BIABacus's tutorial? I'm unaccustomed to being daunted by anything done on a computer, and I've found it somewhat overwhelming, really ...

I've been playing w/ this, http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, because it's simple and accessible from my iPad, but I'm going to take a stab at making a BIABacus spreadsheet this weekend ...

The pair of 8 qt SS pots I'd already picked up, lend themselves nicely to doing the 1 gallon batches using a strainer-based sparge + recirculate method a la the Brooklyn Brew Shop instructions, but I really want to start doing multi-gallon boils, and then using that wort to divide it to run side-by-side's pitching different yeasts, or other variables in one-gallon jugs ...

I'm working on getting some cold storage, which will be cool (literally) ...

Should be able to make a 8 qt batch in a 20 qt pot pretty comfortably from what I saw playing around earlier, which is what I'll try to do soon.

There's a lot of groupthink about five gallon batches, and I get it, but it's not the direction I'm headed for the time being - I just don't want that much of anything, and I WANT to brew biweekly for a while for the experience, and to test some of the macro parameters (mash at 144F vs 152F, one yeast vs another, adding flavoring ingredients vs not, etc) since I have no experience w/ this ...

I need to get a 2.5 or 3 gallon keg, that I plan to use w/ a beer gun for bottling each gallon into four 32 oz swing-top's ...

I'm planning to obtain cold storage, two units, but to try some saison and farmhouse ale yeast that will work w/ my ambient temperature ...

The fact is, here, in the months coming, the groundwater temp makes chilling beer a tough logistic, and one-gallon batches w/ a $2.50 bag of ice and a five minute trip to the store will let me focus on other essential aspects of brewing ...

I did add a stir plate, oxygenation gear, and a 23 qt pressure-canner to make sterile starters ...

So, hopefully I can get going w/ some full-volume, no sparge, not maxi'd BIAB Classic 2 gal batches to do pitching comparison side-by-side's ...

Here's my third batch, and some grub ;)

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Last edited by grantmichaels on 14 Apr 2015, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.

Post #14 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good job, nice post and pics Grant :salute:.

I've only skimmed your post as I'm in a rush tonight so can only answer a few of your questions.

The priceless calculator is a volumes calculator. You can use it if you buy a kit but it will ask yu to supply a lot of info and will not address gravity/efficiency issues. The BIABacus asks you only a few questions in Section B and then intelligently works out defaults for you.

The BIABacus is only in Pre-Release form atm. In other words, it is offered to members here, for free, to enjoy and mainly point out errors. It is not offered with any comprehensive help atm (mind you, I'm still battling to find any brewing software, commercial or not, with any sort of quality help). That is coming but the best advice for learning the BIABacus is to just grab a beer and devote twenty minutes to it, looking through each section from A to K. In other words...

For now, just slow down and read this #1 post and follow the advice there.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Apr 2015, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #16 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
Let's see ... what's happened since I was here last ...

I made some bottle bombs ...

I got to experience about a 12-13" geyser for each bottle of my initial batch ...

Not surprising as it had a slow start for pitching dry yeast into cold wort (58F), and then dropping it down to 55F overnight accidentally ...

I took the FG before I bottled it, but I didn't know that 1.026 was high ...

Probably should have let it sit out of the Cool Brewer bag and seen if it would ferment when at room temp, because once it got a hold of some sugar (bottling tabs) it went to town, and fast ...

Moving on, though ...


I would like to try to brew my 1st BIAB beer, using BIABacus ...

I've found a beer on Brewtoad that I'd like to try, and I've ordered the grain bill and hops to give it a shot ...

I've begun to fill out the spreadsheet, and I think I'm at the point where I need to scale the recipe down, and I'm curious what the next step I would take is, or if I've already made a mistake that I need to correct etc? ...
BIABacus PR1.3T - Saison - AdamK's - Batch A0.xls
Is there a better forum to place this in now, or should I just hang out in here (confused as to where I'm to post)? ...
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 22 Apr 2015, 19:04, edited 1 time in total.

Post #17 made 9 years ago
by joshua
K,
If you could Add the Original Gravity(GAW), the Desired IBU's, the Approximate Grain Bill ratio, or Grams, and the Amount of Hops(Ratio/Grams, the Program/Spreadsheet will fill Itself out.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #18 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
Firstly, thanks for responding - that was very helpful.

I think I'm getting closer, and I've had my 1st little taste of BIABacus doing it's magic ... pretty exciting, I admit.

Here's where I've done thus far. I've used the % splits for the grain bill, and I divided the recipes hops by 1/3, and input the gravities and IBU info ...
BIABacus PR1.3T - Saison - AdamK's - Batch A0.xls
I need to input yeast data still, I know, but am I still headed in the right direction? ...
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 23 Apr 2015, 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

Post #19 made 9 years ago
by joshua
GM,

The file looks good,
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Others may give you more Details.
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You should be ready go, very soon!!!!
Image
Last edited by joshua on 23 Apr 2015, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Which way to go to BIAB this Brooklyn Brew Shop kit?

Post #20 made 9 years ago
by grantmichaels
batch001 == bottle bombs ...

batch002 == grapefruit honey ale, immensely drinkable ...

batch003 == ready to bottle ...

batch004 == first BIABacus brew, and 2 gal (coming up this weekend) ...
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Last edited by grantmichaels on 30 Apr 2015, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.

Post #21 made 9 years ago
by mally
Sorry for the off topic question; but are you making beer with those whiskey yeasts, or are you moonshining?
Just curious.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #24 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Hey fellow Floridian, just checking in on you.

Four kit brews under your belt and using the BIABacus too. :party:

Great pictures and a nice looking glass of beer, how is that
tasting to you?

MS
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