Hello.
I have a 72L brewing pot with an electric heater near the bottom. I'm having difficulties that the heat within the bag is very different from under the bag. I was thinking about having a circulation system during meshing with a pump like this, that would pull wort from close to the heater and pump it in the bag for circulation and good head distribution. Do you think this would be a good solution to that: http://morebeer.com/view_product/11622/ ... _High_Flow
I'm a little bit concerned that the pump has to be placed lower than the pot, why is that?
Johann
Post #3 made 14 years ago
Welcome to the forum Johann!
It's great to see yet another member from Iceland. You guys must drink a lot of beer
.
Adding a pump to your system initially sounds like a good idea but often results in a lot of problems. (By the way, that pump need to be lower than the kettle so as it 'primes' itself. Most pumps are not 'self-priming'. Like a syphon, many pumps need to be filled with liquid before they will work otherwise they just pump air and burn out.)
Let's forget the pump for a minute though because you really don't need one.
In your very cold climate, all you really need is some insulation which is very easy as you have an electric element. (With gas, insulation becomes harder because you might set it on fire
).
So, insulate your kettle and several times through the mash, stir it and then check it's temperature. If necessary, apply heat while stirring.
Being able to apply heat and maintain an even mash temperature is yet another big advantage of BIAB. Three-vessel systems without a pump or an immersion element have no way of applying heat during the mash and they end up with temperature pockets in a mash with variances of 6 or 7 C - sometimes more.
So, we have it easy.
Taking advantage of this BIAB feature just involves a little activity during the mash. A pump, in nearly all cases, will just result in more time and problems. (Think cleaning, maintenance, cost, unforeseen problems and increased infection risk.)
Does that make sense?
PP
It's great to see yet another member from Iceland. You guys must drink a lot of beer
.Adding a pump to your system initially sounds like a good idea but often results in a lot of problems. (By the way, that pump need to be lower than the kettle so as it 'primes' itself. Most pumps are not 'self-priming'. Like a syphon, many pumps need to be filled with liquid before they will work otherwise they just pump air and burn out.)
Let's forget the pump for a minute though because you really don't need one.
In your very cold climate, all you really need is some insulation which is very easy as you have an electric element. (With gas, insulation becomes harder because you might set it on fire
).So, insulate your kettle and several times through the mash, stir it and then check it's temperature. If necessary, apply heat while stirring.
Being able to apply heat and maintain an even mash temperature is yet another big advantage of BIAB. Three-vessel systems without a pump or an immersion element have no way of applying heat during the mash and they end up with temperature pockets in a mash with variances of 6 or 7 C - sometimes more.
So, we have it easy.
Taking advantage of this BIAB feature just involves a little activity during the mash. A pump, in nearly all cases, will just result in more time and problems. (Think cleaning, maintenance, cost, unforeseen problems and increased infection risk.)
Does that make sense?
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 12 Dec 2011, 00:19, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
Great, thanks for the info. 
Yes, I think we Icelanders drink a lot of beer and although it's illegal to brew beer above 2.25% in alcohol more and more peoople seem to be interested in brewing. The law I don't think is fulfilled unless people are selling the product.
I made my first Biab yesterday and the mesh was 75 minutes. I wrapped the pot with thick towels but didn't apply any heat during that time because I thought it would not be needed and was worried that the element would make a hole in the bag. That was one (of the many) mistakes I did during my first brew because the temp fell from 67C (152F) to 57C (135F) in the 75 minutes of the mash.
The gravity before the boil was 1032 instead of 1040 which the recipe from Beersmith specified so I'm ending up with a completely different beer than initially planned :-)
Although I was stirring from time to time there was a lot difference in the measured heat from within the bag than outside (about 5-7C difference).
In my next brew I will have a automatic heat controller (electronic temp control using a PID controller) which should have the heat constant in the wort outside the bag, I will just be stirring a lot to get a constant heat I would think.
Would it be good idea to get a false bottom above the heat element so the bag will definitely not touch the element?
I will not buy the pump based on your recommendations.
Thanks again.
Johann
Yes, I think we Icelanders drink a lot of beer and although it's illegal to brew beer above 2.25% in alcohol more and more peoople seem to be interested in brewing. The law I don't think is fulfilled unless people are selling the product.
I made my first Biab yesterday and the mesh was 75 minutes. I wrapped the pot with thick towels but didn't apply any heat during that time because I thought it would not be needed and was worried that the element would make a hole in the bag. That was one (of the many) mistakes I did during my first brew because the temp fell from 67C (152F) to 57C (135F) in the 75 minutes of the mash.
The gravity before the boil was 1032 instead of 1040 which the recipe from Beersmith specified so I'm ending up with a completely different beer than initially planned :-)
Although I was stirring from time to time there was a lot difference in the measured heat from within the bag than outside (about 5-7C difference).
In my next brew I will have a automatic heat controller (electronic temp control using a PID controller) which should have the heat constant in the wort outside the bag, I will just be stirring a lot to get a constant heat I would think.
Would it be good idea to get a false bottom above the heat element so the bag will definitely not touch the element?
I will not buy the pump based on your recommendations.
Thanks again.
Johann
Post #5 made 14 years ago
Good Day, a false bottom or a element cover will keep the bag from scorching.
The pump is a good idea, and some think it is better to take the cool wort from the top, and move it to the bottom, since that is how convection motion is. Circulating cleaner and santizzer thru the pump system for a a while, is one way to help stop infection, as long as it is done as quickly as possible after the mashout. RIMS is this type of mashing this way.
The pump is a good idea, and some think it is better to take the cool wort from the top, and move it to the bottom, since that is how convection motion is. Circulating cleaner and santizzer thru the pump system for a a while, is one way to help stop infection, as long as it is done as quickly as possible after the mashout. RIMS is this type of mashing this way.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
Hi there Johann,
FIrstly, I just wanted to check that your bag is large enough. If your bag is too small, it would certainly explain your low gravity reading and the large temperature difference between 'inside' the mash and 'outside' the mash. Your bag needs to be large so as it doesn't restrict the grain in any way.
Secondly, something to protect the bag from your element is important in an electric sytem so definitely do that.
Thirdly, glad to hear you are shying away from the pump
. Apart from the reasons I already have given, they can take a long time to get right. See this thread for how long.
PP
FIrstly, I just wanted to check that your bag is large enough. If your bag is too small, it would certainly explain your low gravity reading and the large temperature difference between 'inside' the mash and 'outside' the mash. Your bag needs to be large so as it doesn't restrict the grain in any way.
Secondly, something to protect the bag from your element is important in an electric sytem so definitely do that.
Thirdly, glad to hear you are shying away from the pump
. Apart from the reasons I already have given, they can take a long time to get right. See this thread for how long. PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Dec 2011, 07:07, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
And I'm still working on it. My best advice for now would be to incorporate the BobBrews method of draining a few quarts from the bottom and pouring it back in the top. I used that method with my propane rig very successfully. (Sometimes fancier isn't necessarily better!)PistolPatch wrote:........Apart from the reasons I already have given, they can take a long time to get right. See this thread for how long.
PP
Last edited by thughes on 13 Dec 2011, 08:23, edited 4 times in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
Good Day, BobBrews is a manual pump man, He is correct. If you have time, you can stir, and move hot dense wort to the top, and take temperature readings, and never use more energy than it takes to heat the mash. OR go High Tech, spend tons of money. It is completely your choice. Either way will make the same beer, a great beer.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
Hello guys.
Thanks for great info.
My bag is large enough, I was however trying to not have it all the way to the bottom so it wouldn't touch the element (I don't know why because the element was not turned on). So the bag is definitely big enough.
I have attached an image of my pot - I'm planning on having a false bottom made of pizza net aboute one inch above the element (I will probably drill in some bolts into the net for standing) so all of the bottom of the pot will be free for circulation. Do you guys have any comment regarding that? (I attached a picture of a pizza net I'm thinking about).
I made a search on the forums for the BobBres method, but I didn't find anything specific. Do you guys have a direct link?
Thank you guys.
Johann
Thanks for great info.
My bag is large enough, I was however trying to not have it all the way to the bottom so it wouldn't touch the element (I don't know why because the element was not turned on). So the bag is definitely big enough.
Thank you guys.
Johann
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by gugguson on 13 Dec 2011, 21:50, edited 4 times in total.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
[Sorry Johann, you posted a minute before me so I think your post above answers my main question to you below .]
thughes: I'm going to bump your thread in a minute. Thanks a heap for your post above. I love, 'honest reporting.'
joshua: I also love your last sentence above.
Johann: We're back to focussing on you now
. Let us know your thoughts on whether you think your bag is big enough. (And, tell us more about the laws in Iceland. Why do they only allow 2.25%? )
Cheers,
PP
.] thughes: I'm going to bump your thread in a minute. Thanks a heap for your post above. I love, 'honest reporting.'
joshua: I also love your last sentence above.
Johann: We're back to focussing on you now
. Let us know your thoughts on whether you think your bag is big enough. (And, tell us more about the laws in Iceland. Why do they only allow 2.25%? ) Cheers,
PP
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
Johann,
i have a very similar situation. I have already installed a pump and I've brewed with it once already.
I will try and upload pic later today.
i have a very similar situation. I have already installed a pump and I've brewed with it once already.
I will try and upload pic later today.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #12 made 14 years ago
Here's a link, this will have to make do until Bob finishes the motion picture version:gugguson wrote: I made a search on the forums for the BobBres method, but I didn't find anything specific. Do you guys have a direct link?
Johann
http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
Pictures #5 and #6 show the technique I refer to.
Last edited by thughes on 13 Dec 2011, 23:07, edited 4 times in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #13 made 14 years ago
Hello.
Regarding the laws in Iceland we have been far behind in regards to beer than probably rest of the world. Beer was actually forbidden for sale in Iceland from 1915 to 1989, so beer has only been sold in Iceland for the last 22 years. And currently only government stores are allowed to sell beer (and other alcohol), but of course resturants and pubs are also allowed to sell alcohol.
That said, we are far behind and interest in brewing isn't that widespread and therefore it isn't talked about in politics and therefore I don't think it will be allowed in the next coming years.
Johann
Regarding the laws in Iceland we have been far behind in regards to beer than probably rest of the world. Beer was actually forbidden for sale in Iceland from 1915 to 1989, so beer has only been sold in Iceland for the last 22 years. And currently only government stores are allowed to sell beer (and other alcohol), but of course resturants and pubs are also allowed to sell alcohol.
That said, we are far behind and interest in brewing isn't that widespread and therefore it isn't talked about in politics and therefore I don't think it will be allowed in the next coming years.
Johann
