Paul.. I just finished a Milk Stout and I think it will be coming out as expected. There is a bit of discussion, new and old, about this exact same thing.. finishing at about 30. I don't believe this is unreasonable for a Milk Stout. The recipe I made shows an OG of 57-61 and a FG of 20-24. My brew had an OG of 57 and the FG was 23. Only obvious difference from what I read above was that I used Nottingham ale yeast.. in this case, an English Ale Yeast. Lactose won't do much but add some flavor and mouthfeel, IMO.

What was your mashing temperature?

Following sanitary practices and keeping the batch at a good temperature.. I'd say the yeast did all they could do.

Good Day, I have made the Toasted Oatmeal stout a few times, with a good bit of DARK grains, and have had 1.064-68sg finsih at 1.030-34sg.

It is beacuse of many Unfermentable sugars and protiens that Unmalted Oats leave behind, that gives that smooth silk mouthfeel.

paulnwright,

Just a quick thought. When mashing. In a dark beer with lots of adjuncts and non fermentables. pH has a lot to do with getting the right amount of fermentable sugars to convert. So sometimes I mash only the two row or whatever base grain I am using. After a half hour or so I add the dark grains (roasted) and grains that really don't have to be mashed like crystal malts. I mash for another half hour or a little more? The Idea is that the dark grains change the pH so much that it screws up the conversion of the sugars. separating them allows the pH to remain steady in the correct range (5.4) before the roasted malts change them to 7.2 or whatever?? Somewhere on this forum is a post on separating the dark malts?

Bob, you could be on to something there.
I always thought dark/roasted grains lowered the pH though.

If a high FG bothers you (or anybody), there is plenty of room to join us at the "funky den"!
Come on over it's fun.

BTW I mean add a little brett at bottling/kegging

Bob, Dark grains drop Ph by 1-2ph so if you start pale at 5.4, the DARK/Roast/Chocolate will drop the Ph to 3.8-4.0, Too low to do much.

So if you do Brown Ale/Porter/Stout, you can Mash-In at 7.0- 7.6ph (tapwater)!!!

Toasting the Oats will give a nice "Nutty" flavor, BUT,will Carmalize to Oat's Sugars causing very heavy Body!! For Me......YUM!

There is a lot of information on pH on the web and good stuff at John Plamers site http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html Chapter four is on water. Basic brewing Radio has stuff on pH http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio and http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-Strong has lots. I guess when John Palmer comes out with the water book this Spring I should get that? Obviously I need help!

Well, I'll tell you Bob. My disclaimer is I'm an old duffer.. got more than a few on you.. As with everything, I tend to want to be perfect before I start.. I think I have everything down.. or thought I did until I found BIAB.. . On 'the other' forum, I 'met' Martin and AJ.. probably two of the real gurus on water and had conversations with them. I've had people help me with trying to get my brewing water at least in the right ballpark for ales. They used both Palmer and EZ Water.. and one felt he had to use both because EZ Water doesn't allow for the use of plain table salt.. I think that was the one. Anyhow, I still don't think I could do it on my own.

Well, Palmer and Colin Kaminski who is a "local" brewer of some renown are writing this book you mention. Colin is really a guru. He has been playing with water for years and adjusts every batch of water for his brewery, Downtown Joe's, in Napa, Ca. Colin was invited to talk to us about water at our brewing club a couple months ago... and to show you I'm NOT the dimmest bulb in the house.. we all went away saying.. 'this guy knows his stuff'.. but, "How can I apply it to my brewing without a laboratory?"

Another local brewer of some renown, a winner of many awards in the past, wrote a book that is quite easy to understand for a beginner.. and he makes water treatment quite simple. His small book is LOADED with enough information that you can read it over and over and still pick up lots of things. For simplicity's sake, you might want to look for it. It's inexpensive and an easy read. Most of it you already know, but the information on hops and figuring out what your IBU's will be, grains, water, etc all make this a wonderful read.. it's those tidbits that make it a great read without having a couple hundred pages to go through.
HERE is a short description of Byron's book. I met Byron back in the days just after brewing became legal. He opened a shop in Berkeley, CA. He had already been brewing for years and was a real go-to guy. I had been brewing, albeit only a few times since the early 60's using Pabst Blue Ribbon Hop Flavored Malt Extract and Red Star yeast.. that was all that was available along with corn sugar. No instructions, etc. Made potent beer.. but, yuchhhh.. it was bad. Roll on Jimmy Carter and making brewing legal. Byron and his buds opened a store and a whole new hobby was born. We had good advice.. which turned into a paper handout at the store.. wish I still had mine. Followed by a book that has been revised a few times.

Byron sold the store in Berkeley and moved here to Santa Rosa where he opened "The Beverage People" Byron still shows up once in a while to give style talks, etc.. but the teaching is now in the hands of the new owner and another very good brewer. Whew........ That's a lot of prose.

So, what is the uptake of this treatise? Keep it simple.. Use Byron's method and you have a hard time going wrong. If you go to HBT and read the simple explanation AJ wrote you'd have a hard time going wrong.. very similar to what Byron wrote.. I think Byron's is a bit easier to understand.. for me.. or I'm prejudiced. Still, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty.. if that REALLY makes a difference.. get the pH meter and go from there. I bought the pH meter and am still waiting to use it. Now that I'm headed down the road of BIAB.. I may never need it or the chemicals I bought to calibrate it.. or the Lactic Acid and Phosphoric Acid I bought for adjustments. Argggggghhhh. It's tough (and expensive) being anal like me. I just WANT to have it nailed before I proceed.

HbgBill,

The link malfunctioned? I will try to research for the book on my own. I just finished Skypeing with PP and we went overboard (3 hours)? I think I have uremic poisoning? Don't drink beer when Skypeing! Everything looks yellow!

. I may never need it or the chemicals I bought to calibrate it.. or the Lactic Acid and Phosphoric Acid I bought for adjustments. Argggggghhhh. It's tough (and expensive) being anal like me. I just WANT to have it nailed before I proceed.

Don't worry about it! You will be in a grave soon enough so don't make it sooner! This is the most forgiving hobby in the world! You almost can't go wrong? I have a pH meter one foot from my hand now! It just sits there in the soup can with the pencils. Whether I use it or not the beer is drinkable and if it's a bit off I don't know and don't care! Yes I am messing with pH now but my beer won awards before I even fiddled with pH. In fact I have never won anything since I have been adjusting the pH! (OK, I haven't entered anything since starting, but still.....)!

the book sounds good I need simple! Thanks!

paulnwright wrote: Unless I am really missing something apart from something in the process, I am at a loss to explain this. This is the third dark beer that just has not fermented out well.

Needless to say, this is drinkable, but rather sweet

I think the answers above are very good but we are ignoring the last line. Who wants to drink sweet beer? How can Paul prevent that. I, personally don't care about gravity readings but I do care about taste. I use US-05 and I think I will change my yeast as I too can't get it to give me dry enough beers in certain styles. 1.018+ on a Schwartz is usual for me. (I am lazy and so haven't checked FG's in ages but I too find a sweetness in most beers I brew with US-05.) What is the alternative?

Off-Topic

I wrote the below before I stopped to consider the original post.

BobBrews wrote:I just finished Skypeing with PP and we went overboard (3 hours)?

And Bob got me drunk Bill so that gives me an excuse to say the following...

Bill, I suspect you are going to prove to be one of the most interesting and valuable posters here.

But!

As Bob has indicated above, in his, "Don't worry about it'" comment, I think this pH question is not the right question to be asking for now. For a start, I know it is the wrong answer so it is not right in this thread. Dark beers do ferment out higher but pH can't be the reason if you adjust your mash. So, who knows what the answer is there?

And, when we do get to pH measurement, there are so many unsatisfactory answers out there it is not funny. A new thread should be started on this but I hope no one starts one now as there are too may other things to get right.

I'm pulling you up here Bill because I am following (and enjoying) your posts. Your last one said something about the Calculator. Someone should have told you not to use that. I am going to do a post to that thread now.

BobBrews... try the link now.. I left out a number in the URL when I was copy/pasting.. to be redundant.. this really is a good little book.

PP.. I hear you.. That's why I made the comment about Byron's book.. he makes it simple.. I may never want to use the pH meter I bought if I can produce good beers using BIAB and just the additions that Byron.. and much of my club uses. Yes, some use the pH meter and they also turn out great beers. It could be that most of our brewers ONLY use the pH meter when they are doing competition brews.. I don't know. I just know there are a lot of good beers at club meetings.

Good Day, To Comment on DRY BEER, I is going OffTopic Now......From a friend who Distills homemade alcohol....To Increase effiency or Convert starchs from unmalted things...look at http://www.eckraus.com/2-oz-diatase-enzyme.html

Just a idea about a product, not a proposal of where to puchase.....

Update for EuroBrewers..check out http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... nzyme.html

Dry Enzymes

In my head I am swearing now Joshua!!

http://www.eckraus.com/2-oz-diatase-enzyme.html

You cannot begin to appreciate how badly i needed that today.
I did my Rice dudweiser, 3Kg Malt 2Kg Rice (I know a little adventurous)!
Mashed in at approx 9am, mashed out at approx 5pm

Mally the Dudweiser, Recipe WILL be Great, Good ABV, and a lite beer with any Hop Flavor and aroma you used!!

HbgBill wrote: I bought the pH meter and am still waiting to use it. Now that I'm headed down the road of BIAB.. I may never need it or the chemicals I bought to calibrate it.. or the Lactic Acid and Phosphoric Acid I bought for adjustments. Argggggghhhh. It's tough (and expensive) being anal like me.

Just mail this stuff to me and I'm sure you will sleep a lot better.

Ha.. in YOUR dreams, my friend. Nice meeting you at HBT.